Better Bull?

[East Caney]

Which one is a better bull?

http://sevenpondsranch.com/images/420-1.jpg
http://sevenpondsranch.com/images/420-3.jpg

or

http://sevenpondsranch.com/images/625-2.jpg
http://sevenpondsranch.com/images/625-bull-1.jpg

I purchased my first cattle in December 05...It's been a long learning curve (still ascending). I know these bulls aren't perfect (yet to see one that is). I do think they have good muscling and bone to them. I like their toplines. To me, it appears that #1 has a little more capacity to him. #2 seems to have a bit more muscle (20 lbs heavier) but seems to have somewhat of a barrel shape through the middle.

Anyway, I'm not interested in anyone knocking Beefmasters for having sheath. I would, however, like to know which one has a more preferable sheath and what separates one from the other in your opinion. Below are these bulls sire and grandsire. Thanks for replies.

Sire: Apache's Heart
http://sevenpondsranch.com/images/AH_Bull_3_02-06.jpg

Grandsire: Entergy
http://www.cowmans.com/t-bob/entergy.htm

 

[novatech]

Can't tell that much from the pics but bull 2 seems to have more length. Bull 2 also has the better sheath, tighter with less angle.

 

[Ryder]

Agree with novatech. Length of bull 2 makes him the winner.

 

[*Cowgirl*]

How old are these guys? It may just be the pic, but #1 looks really short spined, therefore 2 is also my pick

 

[birdog]

I'd go with #2 more length and cleaner underline. What are you breeding him to?

 

[*Cowgirl*]

Which one is a better bull?

or

I purchased my first cattle in December 05...It's been a long learning curve (still ascending). I know these bulls aren't perfect (yet to see one that is). I do think they have good muscling and bone to them. I like their toplines. To me, it appears that #1 has a little more capacity to him. #2 seems to have a bit more muscle (20 lbs heavier) but seems to have somewhat of a barrel shape through the middle.

Anyway, I'm not interested in anyone knocking Beefmasters for having sheath. I would, however, like to know which one has a more preferable sheath and what separates one from the other in your opinion. Below are these bulls sire and grandsire. Thanks for replies.

Sire: Apache's Heart

Grandsire: Entergy

 

[ALACOWMAN]

bull #1 wouldnt look as short coupled squared up. he is gathered up grazin plus he is thick. i like his color too but his sheath too strait down. #2's sheath has the right foward angle in case of tall grass or steppin on. id go with two

 

[East Caney]

Cowgirl,
#1 was born 2/25/06 and #2 was born 3/1/06

Birdog,
They are being put on mixed cows. I really like the beefmaster breed, but I'm figuring it will be less money out of pocket to breed up to them as opposed to buying the registered girls at a premium price.

I'm not in it to sell registered animals, I just like knowing as much as there is to know about the animals. It's a must for most registered operations to keep very detailed records. Once I've bred up to beefmasters, I'll probably then run a continental bull on them. I'm not having to pay for land right now, so some loss on the steers is okay. I feel like I'll be winning by retaining the heifers.

There's no pic of #1's dam, but here's #2's dam. Everyone who picked #2, do you think he has less gut and capacity? And if so, do you think he'll get more when he gets a little older (by looking at his sire and dam)

http://sevenpondsranch.com/images/55-9-1.jpg

 

[East Caney]

http://sevenpondsranch.com/images/beefmaster_6_620.jpg

This is a better side view of #1. I don't know if the pics were all taken at the same time. He appears more muscled in the previous pics.

 

[*Cowgirl*]

This is a better side view of #1. I don't know if the pics were all taken at the same time. He appears more muscled in the previous pics.

I still think he's awfully short spined, and I like #2's dam, so he's still my pick.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

like the moma too. if your planning on retaining heifer #2 is the one. look at that udder and small teats she's tight leathered too thats what you want in replacements

 

[birdog]

Cowgirl,
#1 was born 2/25/06 and #2 was born 3/1/06

Birdog,
They are being put on mixed cows. I really like the beefmaster breed, but I'm figuring it will be less money out of pocket to breed up to them as opposed to buying the registered girls at a premium price.

Have you tried buying culls from a beefmaster breeder. I know my brother raises registered beefmasters but will only register the very best ones. He sells the culls private treaty or sale barn. If you could locate some culls you already have a beefmaster to start with and you can just use a better bull to improve them.

I cross beefmaster on brangus and have started retaining heifers from them, they make excellent mommas. I have also started buying registered brangus cows because I can buy them cheaper 1 or 2 head at a time than I can buy a pen of 10 or 20 commercial brangus. go figure. The west texas brangus breeders had a sale a couple of weeks ago and I bought a 4yr old registered cow heavy bred for $1100 when a pen of 10 open commercial heifers went for $1200 hd. It happens this way every year and thats why I've started buying them this way. Good luck on your bull selection I think you will like the cross.

 

[East Caney]

I did consider purchasing beefmasters at one point. I hadn't really thought of buying someone's culls. I know that could be a good deal (especially if they have a high quality herd and cull very hard).

Here's a bit bigger picture: I bought 10 mixed breed cows in December of 2005. The were all med/heavy bred (calved 2/4/06 - 4/15/06). I paid $800 ea for them. They're all relatively young (1 heifer - at the time, none more than 6 years old). Well, after seeing soooo many pictures and watching others critique cows, I've gotten a much better picture of a good cow. Prior to buying those, I had visited one other place. The cows I bought looked so much better than the one's I didn't. That and my limited knowledge pushed me to buy some cows that I should not have. I have a couple that are too small framed (750-900lbs), a couple that need more depth and capacity, and several that could use more bone and/or muscle. I've gotten rid of a couple of poor milkers. So overall, I don't feel like selling them will get the money I paid for them. Therefore, I'm going to keep them as long as they continue calving. I just figured I could breed them to a good bull and make better calves than I have cows.

 

[birdog]

I did consider purchasing beefmasters at one point. I hadn't really thought of buying someone's culls. I know that could be a good deal (especially if they have a high quality herd and cull very hard).

Here's a bit bigger picture: I bought 10 mixed breed cows in December of 2005. The were all med/heavy bred (calved 2/4/06 - 4/15/06). I paid $800 ea for them. They're all relatively young (1 heifer - at the time, none more than 6 years old). Well, after seeing soooo many pictures and watching others critique cows, I've gotten a much better picture of a good cow. Prior to buying those, I had visited one other place. The cows I bought looked so much better than the one's I didn't. That and my limited knowledge pushed me to buy some cows that I should not have. I have a couple that are too small framed (750-900lbs), a couple that need more depth and capacity, and several that could use more bone and/or muscle. I've gotten rid of a couple of poor milkers. So overall, I don't feel like selling them will get the money I paid for them. Therefore, I'm going to keep them as long as they continue calving. I just figured I could breed them to a good bull and make better calves than I have cows.

It sometimes is a hard decision to make but you might need to cut your losses on some of the cows you have and replace them with better stock to start with. It could take years of upgrading and retaining heifers to build the kind of herd you want. I haven't seen your cows so I may be out of line. Good luck

 

[ALACOWMAN]

you'd be surprized theres bull's out there that can clean a herd up in one generation. providing your cow's aint complete crap. just takes some digg'in i would opt for that if you want to retain heifers. offset those cows shortcomings with a great bull

 

[East Caney]

There you go. #6 and #7 (the last two) are very small framed. #2 has the largest frame and bone. #3, 5, and 6 all milk really well. #1 was a heifer in this pic.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

this is my opinion on these , put something strait with as little amount of ear you can get away with. right now. if its strait hereford/ angus red or black / gelp. maybe brangus or what ever. these need to be taken in one direction. for awhile.. you got a pretty good mixed bag... beefmaster on these would only add too it. if you had a set of even cows then a beefmaster might work

 

[THG]

Go with #2 Bull; better dam, and #2 is put together better than #1 bull. Length, depth, sheath more tighter, and he looks to be a little bit beefer. #1, not much length, sheath isn't as tight as #2, and not a picture of his dam, may say that she isn't the best cow in the pastures. My opinions about both of them.

THG

 

[East Caney]

I really just posted the pictures to get some good feedback as to whether these cows deficiencies are to great to be overcome through breeding up.

The black cow on the bottom is the smallest and also the poorest milker (smallest bag anyway, I've read that argument). She can't weigh anything over 800 lbs. I'd like the smallest cow to be around 1000 lbs open.

Anyway, I would appreciate you experienced ladies and gents advising if these cows could be improved upon with great bulls and great genetics. Thanks for your replies.

 

[skyline]

I really just posted the pictures to get some good feedback as to whether these cows deficiencies are to great to be overcome through breeding up.

The black cow on the bottom is the smallest and also the poorest milker (smallest bag anyway, I've read that argument). She can't weigh anything over 800 lbs. I'd like the smallest cow to be around 1000 lbs open.

Anyway, I would appreciate you experienced ladies and gents advising if these cows could be improved upon with great bulls and great genetics. Thanks for your replies.

East Caney, you are planning to do exactly what I am doing with a beefmaster bull. The ranch that I bought my cows from has been running registered beefmaster bulls (all from ISA Cattle Company in San Angelo) on a herd that started as a mixed bag for 15 years now. If you are looking for efficient, high gaining steers and replacement heifers that make good mommas, you are definitely headed in the right direction.