Better Bull?

[SoTX Cwby]

What give cattle their reputations is the extremes that are given within each breed. For instance Charloais for their big calves, Herefords for pinkeye, Beefmasters for their varied color patterns, angus for their funnel butts etc, etc, etc for every breed out there. Most every breed organiztion I have seen has tried to dispell the bad publicity that a few breeders gave to their breed. You are correct saying sorry grades and shoe leather steaks are killing us but it is not the color of the hide that does this.

When giving advice to producers one must also consider where these cattle would be used. In the south it is important for there to be some amount of brahma influence in the cattle, I would not expect much up north. I was not implying that EC not put some thought into his breeding plan ,on the contrary, a good plan is essential. But to shoot down a plan just because it does not include the popular breed of choice is just as short sighted as going into a operation having no plan. ;-)

 

[East Caney]

Okay, I see some good and valid points being made. I know that if I was able to start crossing either of these bulls on a more uniform set of cattle, I'd be ahead of where I am.

I assure you Alacowman and Nortex, I'm not disregarding your suggestion. I just don't believe (from the prices I've been seeing) that I can get the power, performance, and genetics that are in these bulls from any other popular breed without paying LOTS of money that I don't have. Money is still an issue...and I feel like bulls with these genetics and looks, black hided in an Angus production sale from some big time ranch, would cost me $3,000 or more. These bulls look like difference makers.

SoTX, I looked at the L2 website. The females on that website are the kind that I'm looking for. These cows milk well and wean lbs.

Someone said I'd be calving leather and bones (because of some brahman influence already in the herd)...these bulls and their ancestors seem to be producing meat. Leather and bones doesn't wean at 686 lbs out of a heifer.

Alacowman and Nortex, again, I'm not disregarding you...but please help. Show me where I can get RA or Hereford genotype and phenotype like this for the price...that would definitely help the argument.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

What give cattle their reputations is the extremes that are given within each breed. For instance Charloais for their big calves, Herefords for pinkeye, Beefmasters for their varied color patterns, angus for their funnel butts etc, etc, etc for every breed out there. Most every breed organiztion I have seen has tried to dispell the bad publicity that a few breeders gave to their breed. You are correct saying sorry grades and shoe leather steaks are killing us but it is not the color of the hide that does this.

When giving advice to producers one must also consider where these cattle would be used. In the south it is important for there to be some amount of brahma influence in the cattle, I would not expect much up north. I was not implying that EC not put some thought into his breeding plan ,on the contrary, a good plan is essential. But to shoot down a plan just because it does not include the popular breed of choice is just as short sighted as going into a operation having no plan. ;-)

well i wish it were just a few breeder but a walk through some sale barns tell a different story. my cattle are brahman influenced as well. but theres a point to go in another directions and it helps if you and your wallet to do it with a popular breed

 

[Frankie]

Okay, I see some good and valid points being made. I know that if I was able to start crossing either of these bulls on a more uniform set of cattle, I'd be ahead of where I am.

I assure you Alacowman and Nortex, I'm not disregarding your suggestion. I just don't believe (from the prices I've been seeing) that I can get the power, performance, and genetics that are in these bulls from any other popular breed without paying LOTS of money that I don't have. Money is still an issue...and I feel like bulls with these genetics and looks, black hided in an Angus production sale from some big time ranch, would cost me $3,000 or more. These bulls look like difference makers.

SoTX, I looked at the L2 website. The females on that website are the kind that I'm looking for. These cows milk well and wean lbs.

Someone said I'd be calving leather and bones (because of some brahman influence already in the herd)...these bulls and their ancestors seem to be producing meat. Leather and bones doesn't wean at 686 lbs out of a heifer.

Alacowman and Nortex, again, I'm not disregarding you...but please help. Show me where I can get RA or Hereford genotype and phenotype like this for the price...that would definitely help the argument.

Here's a link to the ALOT Angus page. Scroll down for Texas members. I think today you can buy an Angus bull with good EPDs for a very reasonable price. Call around and ask.

http://www.alotangus.org/member.html

And here's a link to the Texas Angus page. They have a "find a bull" program that might be helpful to you. There are lots and lots of people raising Angus, using the same genetics as the big sales, but selling bulls for a lot less. Take some time, look some bulls over. Good luck.....

http://texasangus.com/findabull.html

 

[SoTX Cwby]

You are right, down here it is the same thing, but for the most part you can see what most are trying to do. What would give producers more incentive to upgrade their programs is if the premiums were realized down at the market level. There is all the talk about wanting cattle preconditioned and ready to hit the feedlots when they get them but they do little to nothing to compensate producers for the investment. Personnally, I do all my vaccinations and dehorning but until I get some return on my investment why do I want to hold up cattle for 45 more days to get them ready when they will not get anything more. More money out of my pocket and into theirs. :shock: Is it the right thing to do , sure it is, but so is aging meat in the locker. But see holding meat up a few days on their end so that there is a little more consistency does not make them any money so why do it, put it back on the producer. Until there is fairness across the board , which may never happen, you will continue to see the mixed bunches coming across the sale ring.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Okay, I see some good and valid points being made. I know that if I was able to start crossing either of these bulls on a more uniform set of cattle, I'd be ahead of where I am.

I assure you Alacowman and Nortex, I'm not disregarding your suggestion. I just don't believe (from the prices I've been seeing) that I can get the power, performance, and genetics that are in these bulls from any other popular breed without paying LOTS of money that I don't have. Money is still an issue...and I feel like bulls with these genetics and looks, black hided in an Angus production sale from some big time ranch, would cost me $3,000 or more. These bulls look like difference makers.

SoTX, I looked at the L2 website. The females on that website are the kind that I'm looking for. These cows milk well and wean lbs.

Someone said I'd be calving leather and bones (because of some brahman influence already in the herd)...these bulls and their ancestors seem to be producing meat. Leather and bones doesn't wean at 686 lbs out of a heifer.

Alacowman and Nortex, again, I'm not disregarding you...but please help. Show me where I can get RA or Hereford genotype and phenotype like this for the price...that would definitely help the argument.

your not going to get the same geno and phenotype out of a completely different breed. those beefmasters are better than most ive seen on here but i wouldnt use em on your cows. no way i cant help you in texas with a bull. around here though you could have good bull in the pasture before dark. good luck either way you decide

 

[East Caney]

Frankie, thanks for the sites, I'll check them out.

Alacowman, I should be more clear. I meant a genotype and phenotype that compares with their breed (whatever breed it is) the way these bulls compare within the beefmaster breed.

One thing is sure, you're seem to be sincerely attempting to help, so thanks for that. I'm really keeping my ears open, but I know I'll be making a decision pretty soon...just hope it's the right one (better put some prayer with it). I appreciate the wishes of good luck.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

East Caney-

You have received some invaluable advice on this thread! If you will go back and read all of the posts, you will realize that you probably could benefit by following several suggestions, which I recommend.

I am sending you my suggestions by PM, to preclude a long and tiring session, most of which has already been suggested. But my choice, for a collection of reasons, would be 420, but NOT with this herd of cows!

DOC HARRIS

 

[Brandonm2]

Ok, that helps a lot. I must have missed the part about these cows being just a few weeks off the truck. I like the #3 bull. I would like to sell all the cows and go buy a uniform set of Herf, Beefmaster, or Gert heifers and slap an ANgus bull on them; but I don't think that is good business (at this point). You bought these cows, you want to make them work,.....pick the beefmaster you like best and put him to work. Any of those four bulls will improve this set of cows. Some folks attack the beefmaster for lack of uniformity BUT in this herd that is not a problem. Your calf crop is not going to be very uniform as long as these cows are their mamas (no matter what bull or breed sires them). All you really want is an F1 generation of heifers that are better cows than their mamas and I think Beefmaster CAN do that.

 

[skyline]

East Caney, check your pm inbox.