best creep feed mix for my situation

[Aero]

We bought a Bull off them that weaned in the High 800s and he hasnt lost much weight at all. of Corse a yearling bull will lose some. these Advance cattle are very thick and wide.

I guess you would just have to see them for your self.

i bet they look like fat bulls that might have some muscle under there.

800's arent that tough with a little feeding. putting on an extra 200 lbs requires an extra 1400 lbs of feed intake (@ 7:1) and pushing calves that hard is not beneficial for long term use as breeding stock.

developent vs fattening is quite different.

i know... you are going to tell me they are all muscle... they arent.

 

[BRG]

Yes they creep feed. But most of those calves are embryo calves and they are raised by a recip herd in IA. Th recip mane creeps everything too.

 

[BRG]

to RedAngus121's defense. The Advance cattle he is talking about are some of the thicker rear quatered cattle in the breed.

But...I am sure being creep fed, their is alot of extra weight that is fat. I was not at his sale this spring, so I can't say for sure though.

 

[RedAngus121]

im not going to tell you there all Muscle because i know there not.
When we bought are bull he was not fat at all. He was green they didnt feed them very hard at all this year. Compared to the bulls last year.

We are very happy with the stuff we have bought off them.

 

[lazy ace]

We bought a Bull off them that weaned in the High 800s and he hasnt lost much weight at all. of Corse a yearling bull will lose some. these Advance cattle are very thick and wide.

I guess you would just have to see them for your self.

How are the daughters? Looking over Piepers catalog I could only find a handful of daughters in production. I am not saying I don't like 121R because we have calves on the ground out of him and they do look good but the bulls are far better than the heifers from what we have here. It was recommended to us to use him on some real deep MILKY cows.

Have a good one

lazy ace

 

[BRG]

That is what I was told too. He needs depth, but all Advance do. I have seen daughters with calves sucking and they looked good, but they said he will not add milk if needed. The udders were nice and tight, but not that big.

 

[RedAngus121]

we have two Daughters out of him we bought at Coleys sale last fall. They are really thick and really wide across back. I really like them.

Coley didnt have many 121R sons at his sale. But the 121R sons i saw at peipers looked very good. I also got to see 121R him self he is a great bull. They also had a heifer sired by 121R there she had just calved and she had perfect udders and alot of milk.

 

[lazy ace]

That is what I was told too. He needs depth, but all Advance do. I have seen daughters with calves sucking and they looked good, but they said he will not add milk if needed. The udders were nice and tight, but not that big.

BRG this sounds like you are describing a Cherokee Canyon udder!! 8) If Advance cattle won't add milk, and need depth what kind of cattle would you breed him to? Now I'm just flat out picking on you. I sure wouldn't use him on Cherokee Canyon's, Chateau, or Julian Daugthers. (Don't make me start drinking boxed wine )

have a good one

lazy ace

 

[BRG]

Lazy Ace,

HAHAHA!!!

I beat ya to it on the dinking thing today.

No, that is just what the owners told me about the bull. I don't think we can even compare 121R to Ch. Canyon. They said they only have a couple of those CH Canyon daughters left due to lack of milk . Gridmasters and Cartrights dams are about the only ones left in their herd and he said they are really good.

How do your 121Rs look this spring? They should be getting some size on them by now. What is your best sire group so far. Is it Dakota Copper again?

 

[SEC]

When we are talking weaning weights are we talking adj wts or actual weights, there is a big difference.

The cow I posted a while back weaned her Jan 3rd calf last year on Sept 1 at 990lbs no creep, feed or special management.

2 year old heifers are also responsible for lots of 750 + lbs at weaning with adj 205 weights, that 15% adds quite a bit. More times than not, cows don't wean calves with a high 205 wt as what the heifers do.

 

[Tod Dague]

That is what I was told too. He needs depth, but all Advance do. I have seen daughters with calves sucking and they looked good, but they said he will not add milk if needed. The udders were nice and tight, but not that big.

Have you seen Avalanche 381? What do you think of him?

I was thinking he would work well on 3M dtrs.

 

[BRG]

Hs seems to be a bigger bull with alot of eye appeal. Not huge, just a little more leg. Could use more middle. He is pretty good though. My problem with him is he is to straight legged. Every time I see him they get straighter. But pretty good bull. I do like my brother to him better though. Accelerator is a little more moderate and a little deeper made. I think his bw's are going to be a little smaller too. Mark told me this past fall that he likes the dam to Accelerator better than Avalanches dam. I really like her too. But Avalanche has a good dam too. Accelerator's dam looks to be a bit easier keeping.

 

[Tod Dague]

Thanks. BTW I like your bull too, but I already have this and am trying to figure out what I want to do with it. ;-)

 

[lazy ace]

BRG probably the best sire groups we have are New Chapter and Dakota Copper. The Perks 121r calves look alot like the Prince calves. We have alot of nice individuals out of many different sires. We have are first set of calves out of our Golden Boy bull.

The calves are later because we used him cleanup, but they have real moderate birthweights and stylish.

have a good one

lazy ace

 

[BRG]

Wow does he look good. Might be a bit a winter feed on him But he looks great. I thought he would grow up to be something pretty special. Does his offspring have the muscle and middle like he does? Post his registration # would ya.

 

[BRG]

Tod,

Just make sure you breed him to some cows that have middle and are not staright legged. His BW EPD has gone up too, not sure if it is accurate but you better take that in account too.

 

[lazy ace]

BRG here is a link to the RA web site.

http://old.redangus.org/cgi-bin/extped.4ge?976768

I know he is a little chunky but he is very easy keeping. He has looked that way since we pulled him out from the breeding pasture as a yearling. You can't accuse him of being shallow made. :cboy: It is too early to tell on his calves but most of them were in the 60 and 70 pound range at birth. Some of the oldest calves fit right in with the other sire groups. They seem to have good muscle with alot of depth.

Have a good one

Lazy ace

 

[Stocker Steve]

[/quote]
Let's review this subject of "Creep Feeding" quickly and succinctly, and attempt to decide if it is a 'procedure' for which YOU, as a Beef Producer, should consider utilizing. The practice of beginning a feeding program for calves in addition to and concurrent with their nursing their dams early on in their lives depends on many variables - such as the availability of natural forage, the price of seed stuffs, natural forage, time of the year, the percent of protein their available forage contains - -and on and on - - the PRICE of feed being a commanding factor once the decision is made to put the practice in operation.

The technical justifications and formulae for creep feeding can be found in many publications and on the internet, and are too extensive to be listed in this post. However, the price of feed and the market calf prices are two very important factors to consider in either a cow-calf or terminal operation. The individual producer would be in a decisive position to make the final judgementoverfeeding at an early age.
[/quote]

"It depends." Feed conversion is the hardes number to come up with.

Feed Cost per lb. of Gain

Feed $/T Supplement Conversion Ratio
7 10 15
$94 $0.333 $0.473 $0.707
$130 $0.461 $0.656 $0.981
$145 $0.513 $0.731 $1.093
$178 $0.630 $0.897 $1.343


Feeding Margin per lb. of Gain

Value of Gain
0.80 0.93 1.02
Feed Cost/# Gain
$0.473 $0.321 $0.451 $0.541
$0.656 $0.139 $0.269 $0.359
$0.731 $0.064 $0.194 $0.284
$0.897 ($0.103) $0.027 $0.117