Beefmaster question on color and dispostion

[Mottlefaceman413]

Lately, I have been researching Beefmaster cattle and looking to purchase some to grow my herd and I have found something to be very confusing. I have reached out to some breeders and they seem to really be driving the idea of buying red Beefmasters over duns, mottle faced and other colors for that matter. That said, when I read the philosophy the breed was founded on disposition was a six essential and color was not. So, when I was watching the cattle in motion video and they were selling bulls that were red and pretty nervous, I asked myself if the association had decided to use color in place of disposition as an essential. Personally, I do not mind what the association plans to do, but I would like to figure out where they truly stand, so I can then make a decision that fits my program. As a commercial man, I have found that blaze face and duns have worked better for me because the duns seem to handle heat better and the blaze face animals work better with black bulls. Now, I am speaking completely on personal opinion and preference; therefore, I am looking to the Beefmaster folks to help clarify things for me and put me on the right path.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

The majority of that is personal preference,I'd concentrate on the basics...

 

[Mottlefaceman413]

Thanks for your response ALACOWMAN. I always appreciate your ability to articulate the most complex things the simplest way. I was once told that was the mark of a good teacher. Anyway, ALACOWMAN I just want to make sure that from a commercial standpoint I am not missing something? If I should be focused on color rather than disposition I would like to know, so I do not make a mistake. Another question I have, is whether or not the red Beefmaster cattle typically have better genetics than those that possess another color? My apologies for all the questions I ask, but it is the only way I am going to learn. Thanks.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

With beefmaster, outside of the wild spotted colors, the solids won't matter, and as far as the heat tolerance it's more the hide then color that contributes to their cooling ability..beefmasters cattle are known for their good temperment. Keep a eye on udder and teat structure...

 

[Kingfisher]

Can you explain what the advantage to their hide is AC? Thanks in advance.

 

[texast]

I can't connect the deposition of the Beefmasters to its Red color, but I've been watching a few sales and it seems a lot of folks are trying to breed for the Red and Black cattle. Now at one point the paints were frowned up on, but they're coming around. Some of the popular bulls are Red in color like Houston, Logan, Synergy and so many more. But you also have Levi he was a dun color and Maverick, Rangers pride he's dun too. I've seen them bred Red and the calf came out painted. Just never know.
One of the beauties of raising Beefmaster's is the color for me and the deposition. It's a wonderful breed. I do know they are breeding the clean up the sheath.

 

[Mottlefaceman413]

I can't connect the deposition of the Beefmasters to its Red color, but I've been watching a few sales and it seems a lot of folks are trying to breed for the Red and Black cattle. Now at one point the paints were frowned up on, but they're coming around. Some of the popular bulls are Red in color like Houston, Logan, Synergy and so many more. But you also have Levi he was a dun color and Maverick, Rangers pride he's dun too. I've seen them bred Red and the calf came out painted. Just never know.
One of the beauties of raising Beefmaster's is the color for me and the deposition. It's a wonderful breed. I do know they are breeding the clean up the sheath.

Sorry, if I were not clear Texast. What I was referencing was the Beefmaster video that can be found on Cattle in Motion that has bulls on there with a label that states big country . In other words, it appeared to me as though they were marketing cattle that have a less than ideal disposition, which is a six essential. That said, I have ran into many people who insist that I need a red bull and I was wondering if the BBU was planning on replacing disposition with color as an essential, since it appears it is okay to market cattle that cannot be handled by everyone. I appreciate your reply and your willingness to help me wrap my head around this. I love what the Beefmaster cattle can do and do not want to make a mistake.

 

[BC]

The solid color is easier to market the calves. When you send a load of stock calves to a customer, the spotted and odd colored calves stick out like a sore thumb. The customer tends to hone in on them picking them apart. If the cattle have solid color they are harder to pick apart or find fault in them. I am guessing that the reason for preferring red is you get less paints and spots with that color pattern.

As to disposition, could you provide a link to the videos you were referring. I went to the Cattle In Motion site and looked at a Beefmaster bull sale coming up and did not see anything that looked out of ordinary.

 

[pappy6]

I raise beefmasters...disposition is a key factor to me...I don't believe BBU is planning any change in the 6 essentials the breed was founded on. Most of the bull test programs are calling for solid color cattle...red and black to which appeals more to the commercial buyer. I have many paints which often raise the best calves in my herd. I am not going to sell them even if I do get docked at the salebarn...the extra weight helps offset the price per pound.

If you are using a black bull, you should reduce the % of marked calves. Also, a charlais will make a good cross. Just look for some easy fleshing females that have not been overfed to put on their weight...grass will prove how good a cow is at maintaining body condition. Udder capacity should not be a problem with beefmasters. Check feet as some that have been overfed will develop long toes.

As stated, disposition is a strong key to me as I am too old and don't want to have to worry about my wife and grandkids safety in the pasture. I can hand pet more of mine than any other breed I have ever had.

Good luck!

 

[Mottlefaceman413]

http://www.cattleinmotion.com/issuu/tex ... ull-sale-0

Here is a link to the video I was referencing. As far as color, there seems to be an indictment on brindles, blaze face cattle and to some extent mottle faced cattle with mottle underlines. For example, using a bull like 4290 would be taboo because of his color and he is just a mottle face bull with a mottle underline. Either way, he is not a paint. I had planned on using him A.I and was advised not; however, I love all I have read about him. Anyway, see for yourself. http://www.dalelasaterranch.com/Semen.htm

 

[Mottlefaceman413]

I raise beefmasters...disposition is a key factor to me...I don't believe BBU is planning any change in the 6 essentials the breed was founded on. Most of the bull test programs are calling for solid color cattle...red and black to which appeals more to the commercial buyer. I have many paints which often raise the best calves in my herd. I am not going to sell them even if I do get docked at the salebarn...the extra weight helps offset the price per pound.

If you are using a black bull, you should reduce the % of marked calves. Also, a charlais will make a good cross. Just look for some easy fleshing females that have not been overfed to put on their weight...grass will prove how good a cow is at maintaining body condition. Udder capacity should not be a problem with beefmasters. Check feet as some that have been overfed will develop long toes.

As stated, disposition is a strong key to me as I am too old and don't want to have to worry about my wife and grandkids safety in the pasture. I can hand pet more of mine than any other breed I have ever had.


Thanks for the insight Pappy6, but I was wondering if there was some advantage to selling cattle at the sale barn that have a mottle face or even bald face with pigment around the eyes of course. In other words, black baldy cattle have traditionally done well and my experience has been the same with red baldys also. Now, that is just my area and we the yells calves or Beefmaster/ Charolais cross has done well also. In fact, to piggy back on what you were saying earlier I have seen those yella calves top the market on several occasions. Anyway, look at the video if you can and let me know what your thoughts are. My assumption is that bulls that are labeled big country probably are more nervous acting than usual.IMO, but I don't know that.

Good luck!

 

[Mottlefaceman413]

Okay folks, so to clarify things Big Country is a title they give bulls that should not handled regularly and would work better for people with large ranches because their disposition is less than ideal. That is what I told when I was asked and if you are wondering Bulls 3 and 4 are labeled as big country as well as a few other.

 

[texast]

Mottlefaceman413,
Thanks for telling about that Big Country title, I honestly never knew about it. I watched that whole video saw a few I really like. I also saw what you mentioned about the nervous ones.
That 4290 bull is really nice bull, but the one listed under him I would take in a heart beat. ( I know my post may be a bit off subject I just wanted to point it out lol forgive me)!! I personally like the mottled face cattle just a personal thing for me.
The deposition was a deciding factor for me when I was first introduced to the breed back in the late 80"s. They can be some very big animals, but they are very calm overall. Now we did have a bull that would try to get you, he was tiger stripped in color. We had several daughters out of him that went on to be great calm momma's.
Good luck with your plans for your herd, keep us posted.

 

[Mottlefaceman413]

Mottlefaceman413,
Thanks for telling about that Big Country title, I honestly never knew about it. I watched that whole video saw a few I really like. I also saw what you mentioned about the nervous ones.
That 4290 bull is really nice bull, but the one listed under him I would take in a heart beat. ( I know my post may be a bit off subject I just wanted to point it out lol forgive me)!! I personally like the mottled face cattle just a personal thing for me.
The deposition was a deciding factor for me when I was first introduced to the breed back in the late 80"s. They can be some very big animals, but they are very calm overall. Now we did have a bull that would try to get you, he was tiger stripped in color. We had several daughters out of him that went on to be great calm momma's.
Good luck with your plans for your herd, keep us posted.

I appreciate the good wishes and the color you have added to this thread. Anyway, to this point I love all I have read and learned about Beefmaster cattle and I think I will go ahead and try the Bulls on some of my cows. My concern whether or not I am able to have a constant supply of quality animals without having to sacrifice one thing for another. In other words, I do not want a bull that has a more favorable color if he does not possess a disposition that suits me. If you guys know breeders that could assist me with that, please do hesitate private message me.

 

[BC]

The 4290 bull is conservatively marked enough not to get too much white. Look at one of the first bulls on that page - solid red and sired by 4290. If he fits your program use him.

As for disposition, everyone has a different tolerance level. I don't have to have cows gentle enough to go catch their newborn babies. As long as I don't get run over in the pen that is ok. Too old and fat to climb fences.

 

[texast]

Sorry I looked at the wrong bull. You mentioned 4290, and I referenced the bull above 0192 he had a mottled face also. But 4290 is a one heck of a bull!! And I like his mottled face, I wouldn't be afraid to use him at all.

 

[pappy6]

Mottlefaceman413,

Been gone all day since my post...I am old school and not very puter savvy but I cannot view the video. I think that the mottle face calves either red or black are right at the top of the sales in my area. I may have missed it but where are you located? If you look over the animals that you are considering, you will notice some high headedness and nervous tendencies in almost any breed...I don't like those. They will not only pass that trait along but also infect your whole herd.

I wish I could review the bull you are referencing but it sounds like you know what will work for you...go with your gut and best of luck! As stated earlier, I have reds, blacks, mottlie and paints and only look for how they can produce beef and we can walk through them without fear.

 

[wacocowboy]

I have not looked at the cattle for the Texoma sale but I know they have made a strong push toward solid red. I have heard nothing from the BBU about changing any of the 6. I do know they encourage solid colors because they sell better at commercial sales. I buy cows that are going to produce, color is a ways down in my choice making process. If you want quality cattle contact some one like Buster in Oklahoma. Study the offspring from a lot of these big name bulls you will find a lot of garbage. I have several big name popular bulls I won't touch their offspring. If you see L-Bar 5502 on the paper good chance it is a good animal he passes down good genes.

 

[thommoos]

I have not looked at the cattle for the Texoma sale but I know they have made a strong push toward solid red. I have heard nothing from the BBU about changing any of the 6. I do know they encourage solid colors because they sell better at commercial sales. I buy cows that are going to produce, color is a ways down in my choice making process. If you want quality cattle contact some one like Buster in Oklahoma. Study the offspring from a lot of these big name bulls you will find a lot of garbage. I have several big name popular bulls I won't touch their offspring. If you see L-Bar 5502 on the paper good chance it is a good animal he passes down good genes.

ditto: x 2

 

[tdc_cattle]

I have all different color of moms. Brindle, dun, red, mottle face. The bbu hasn't changed anything with regard to the six essentials but breeders are breeding for solid colors on their own.

This calf:



is colored my how I prefer, red, white face, pigment around both eyes. Hoping she's a keeper first pic is at birth 1/26 second is today.