Any one that has used Basin Payweight 107S before have any calving problems with cows?
Basin Payweight 107S
- Thread starter Chuckie
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jscunn
Well-known member
Chuckie,
I haven't used or seen any 107S calves, but he sure looks like the real deal. I would think they would be just fine on cows, I hope you try him..
I haven't used or seen any 107S calves, but he sure looks like the real deal. I would think they would be just fine on cows, I hope you try him..
OP
OP
His BW is 3.2 but his calving ease is a -4. WW +.84, YW +132 RE +1.39 Docility a 41. Imagine that! I wonder if he could be house broke?
One number that I would like to see be change is his Marbling, as it now is a .39. That is a number that I see for the older cows, that I am wanting to bring up. I am only wanting to AI three cows, and will make sure if I were to get any heifers, I would use a higher marbling bull with them.
He is a good looking bull. I really would like to see a video of him walking.
One number that I would like to see be change is his Marbling, as it now is a .39. That is a number that I see for the older cows, that I am wanting to bring up. I am only wanting to AI three cows, and will make sure if I were to get any heifers, I would use a higher marbling bull with them.
He is a good looking bull. I really would like to see a video of him walking.
DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
Chuckie":3f33y8n5 said:
Chuckie-
Basin Payweight 1075 has outstanding EPD's! Eye-bugging!
Here is prime example of when "BALANCING" factors really come into play when selecting seedstock. I don't disagree with your desire for higher Marbling traits when considering a bull for retaining heifers - however with the potential of incorporating his WW, YW, AND RE of 1.39 into replacement heifers - you have a striking opportunity to acquire higher Marbling EPD's by mating him to cows with high Marbling traits (not too difficult with Angus cows!), and still preserve, or "lock-in" those remarkable Production characteristics. In the Angus breed, Marbling is a Bonus trait, and high Rib-eye is somewhat difficult to come by. We should grab those possibilities at every opportunity, and then combine some of the other less desirable traits by manipulation of the individual traits through BALANCING and BLENDING! Picture a "Dancing Couple" matching their dance steps in a rhythmical succession of repetitative movements! Do the same activities with "Multiple Trait Selection" decisions. The result can be a harmonious combination of Balanced Traits! Result? One heck of a seedstock candidate!
DOC HARRIS
OP
OP
Doc,
In search for the best bull, I am always trying to decide which trait I am willing to sacrifice. When I look at the bull as a whole; comparing each bull to one another, there are so many things to consider.
Some seem to be so perfect, but they take their pictures with the front end up higher than the hips. Or they show the bull standing in grass up to his knees.
So many have trouble in the hips, rear legs and feet, that I am over cautious.
With Basin Payweight, he has such high numbers, yet I must give up marbling. He seems to stand correct as his back leg is at the correct angle. Of course I would be very sick if all of the calves had odd hinged hocks, or sloppy hips.
I have a new bull coming soon that will be able to correct the marbling if I use Payweight, as his will be +.92. Using Payweight on the 3 open cows just might give me a heifer or two to add to my cows. I have had all bulls up until this year, which I had two heifers.
You are absolutely correct on the dancing partner theory. I have been trying to get the partners together but can't find ones that match.
In search for the best bull, I am always trying to decide which trait I am willing to sacrifice. When I look at the bull as a whole; comparing each bull to one another, there are so many things to consider.
Some seem to be so perfect, but they take their pictures with the front end up higher than the hips. Or they show the bull standing in grass up to his knees.
So many have trouble in the hips, rear legs and feet, that I am over cautious.
With Basin Payweight, he has such high numbers, yet I must give up marbling. He seems to stand correct as his back leg is at the correct angle. Of course I would be very sick if all of the calves had odd hinged hocks, or sloppy hips.
I have a new bull coming soon that will be able to correct the marbling if I use Payweight, as his will be +.92. Using Payweight on the 3 open cows just might give me a heifer or two to add to my cows. I have had all bulls up until this year, which I had two heifers.
You are absolutely correct on the dancing partner theory. I have been trying to get the partners together but can't find ones that match.
OP
OP
Should we just go ahead and slaughter all Angus that have this trait?
OP
OP
I have one cow that is a .8 frame, two .9 frames, and the rest are 1.0. I have never had to pull a calf, only to pull a leg up as it was bent backwards. I will use a 3 BW bull and a lower CED bull maybe before others will.
I will keep a heifer out of Payweight in a heart beat as I am hoping that I get at least a couple.
I will keep a heifer out of Payweight in a heart beat as I am hoping that I get at least a couple.
cow pollinater
Well-known member
Not to be argumentative but if you adjust for across breed epd's that 3.2BW puts him in the same range as an average hereford, red angus, limi, or sim bull but his growth blows all of them out of the water.3waycross":2nnjlicj said:
If he really is as good as his epd's I would expect to see some sons out of him since he was born in 2006 with the ced and BW adjusted to maximize his potential. If you do use him, keep us posted on results.
cow pollinater":22kwf4to said:
So where does the -4 CED EPD put him on the across the board EPD's. There has to be a reason he is so low. I am talking about one thing and ya'll are arguing something else!
cow pollinater
Well-known member
Oh I'm sure they're built like a brick shythouse from before day one, I'm just saying that for the size of the calf he's not out of line with any sire that would be considered from another breed.
OP
OP
He is a terminal bull. I am not trying for a baby pig. What you are going after is one thing, and what I am going for is another.
On keeping a heifer out of Payweight, that is the way to introduce terminal characteristics to your herd.
How do you think people created bulls that have BW's of 2.0 WW +68 YW +134 Someone kept working on it until they got the BW's down.
I have looked at 107S, and his actual weight at birth is not outrageous, as it is 80. My cows have had them in the 90's before.
I wonder if the calving problem is coming from small framed cows, as he has a long deep shoulder, and is angled; so his front legs will extend forward better to get the elbows bent straighter. I think the height of a deep shouldered bull from his withers to his elbows is what makes the calf hang. A calf with a narrow girth and shoulder, will pass through easier. But I don't want a shallow shouldered calf.
I would be all over these cows when they had their calves, but... I am all over the others too, like white on rice.
On keeping a heifer out of Payweight, that is the way to introduce terminal characteristics to your herd.
How do you think people created bulls that have BW's of 2.0 WW +68 YW +134 Someone kept working on it until they got the BW's down.
I have looked at 107S, and his actual weight at birth is not outrageous, as it is 80. My cows have had them in the 90's before.
I wonder if the calving problem is coming from small framed cows, as he has a long deep shoulder, and is angled; so his front legs will extend forward better to get the elbows bent straighter. I think the height of a deep shouldered bull from his withers to his elbows is what makes the calf hang. A calf with a narrow girth and shoulder, will pass through easier. But I don't want a shallow shouldered calf.
I would be all over these cows when they had their calves, but... I am all over the others too, like white on rice.
OP
OP
I called ORIgen about Basin Payweight 107S, and the gentleman said he had just returned to the facilities to be collected.
He also said that they have not had any reports of train wrecks with calving, and they feel that his CED is not going up because no one is trying to use him on heifers. Everyone uses him on mature cows, and the bull is not made too oddly that would cause people not to use him.
He said that there is one owner there that has used him on heifers that has no problem at all with the calves being born.
He spoke about how long the bull was, and the calves first come out really long, and start growing. I just can't see why someone wouldn't use this bull if they AI'ed a cow if they were finding new bloodlines to improve a herd.
I asked about how he traveled; about his back legs and hips were, and he said the bull was really sound, and had no problems with his legs or hips. He added that the bull was still really sound and looked great.
I talked to him about making a video of the bull as I had searched for one for a long time. He said that they should make one while they had him there. I hope that they do this.
He also said that they have not had any reports of train wrecks with calving, and they feel that his CED is not going up because no one is trying to use him on heifers. Everyone uses him on mature cows, and the bull is not made too oddly that would cause people not to use him.
He said that there is one owner there that has used him on heifers that has no problem at all with the calves being born.
He spoke about how long the bull was, and the calves first come out really long, and start growing. I just can't see why someone wouldn't use this bull if they AI'ed a cow if they were finding new bloodlines to improve a herd.
I asked about how he traveled; about his back legs and hips were, and he said the bull was really sound, and had no problems with his legs or hips. He added that the bull was still really sound and looked great.
I talked to him about making a video of the bull as I had searched for one for a long time. He said that they should make one while they had him there. I hope that they do this.
Baldie Maker
Well-known member
I commend you Chuckie on taking it one step beyond these boards and gathering information from other sources; if we (producers) have questions about prospective sires we shouldn't feel that we're to little to call/visit studs or owners and get more information. :tiphat:
OP
OP
Thank you Baldie Maker!!
blacksnake
Well-known member
This bull is now up to -1 CED and +6 CEM
jscunn
Well-known member
Chuckie,
I know the full sister to 107S (-6 CED and 4.7 BW) was flushed to a sire with a 0 CED and +5 BW EPD, 13 embryos were put in heifers.. 13 live babies no pulls, no touches, all healthy calves most under 80# one was 56#.. maybe the EPDs are wrong..
I know the full sister to 107S (-6 CED and 4.7 BW) was flushed to a sire with a 0 CED and +5 BW EPD, 13 embryos were put in heifers.. 13 live babies no pulls, no touches, all healthy calves most under 80# one was 56#.. maybe the EPDs are wrong..
