Vermillion Payweight J847

[Chuckie]

Anyone ever A.I.'ed any of your cows to this bull?
Are the calves extremely wide shoulder or just heavy? It says he weighed 86 lbs when he was born.
What quality are the calves as far as seed stock?

 

[Chuckie]

Or his sire Vermillion Dateline 7078?

 

[robert]

probably 7 or 8 years ago when Stevenson's were showing carloads of heifers in Denver they had loads of On Target, Payweight and one other sire I can't recall now along with a couple of heifers by a 598 son, everyone was trying to convince people the On Targets were the best but by far the consistent quality cattle were the Payweights. A friend of mine bought his dam and has produced some pretty useful cattle out of that. VRD (7078) tended to sire a bit more frame than I wanted, good uddered females with some longevity to them but too big a factory for me to run. Short gestation but the bw is real.

 

[Chuckie]

Robert, I think Boyd on Target and J847 look a lot alike. So a definite 80 - 90 lb calf out of VD 7087?
Now a days, there are videos of the bulls, and see problems that you can't see in a standing picture.
I always like the bull, Kessler's Frontman until I saw him walk in a video. His back ankles were bent as if his tendons were too short. He almost walked on the ends of his toes. I watched some of his calves to see if it was a hereditary problem...and it was. Several calves had the same problem. Many of the pictures had a lump on the front of their ankle. He sure is a good looking bull though.

This picture of Vermillion Dateline 7078, shows a camel hump of a muscle behind his head; shoulders that look like over sized shoulder pads, and forearms like a Christmas turkey.

What happened to these kind of bulls? They are all smooth looking now.
He is a cow bull, with a BW of 88 lbs. (BW 5.8 ) I have had them to weigh up to 100. The rest of his numbers are great!
http://universalsemensales.com/breeds/angus/vermilion-dateline-7078

 

[jscunn]

I hear the 107S son is pretty good. (Basin Payweight 107S)

 

[3waycross]

This is an excerpt from the Universal Semen Sales catalog about the Frontman bull.

REASONS TO USE:
1. Frontman is long and deep bodied.
2. He is heavily muscled with strong top and he moves
out on what is best described as tremendous feet and legs.

 

[bse]

ive got a Payweight daughter bought her as a heifer she weighed 79lbs at birth she is a 4 yr old now around 1600lbs. She has had a few fertility problems not sure why, she is carrying a embryo now to try and straighten her out other than the fertility issue i wish i had a field full of them just like her.

 

[3waycross]

ive got a Payweight daughter bought her as a heifer she weighed 79lbs at birth she is a 4 yr old now around 1600lbs. She has had a few fertility problems not sure why, she is carrying a embryo now to try and straighten her out other than the fertility issue i wish i had a field full of them just like her.

How's her feet and legs.

 

[Black and Good]

I've got a Balancer Bull I raised thats out of Frontman. His Feet and legs are really good. Frontman puts a lot of depth and capacity in his calves. My semen guy told me the reason Frontman got popular was he crosses excellent on Mytty in Focus daughters. B&G

 

[3waycross]

Robert, I think Boyd on Target and J847 look a lot alike. So a definite 80 - 90 lb calf out of VD 7087?
Now a days, there are videos of the bulls, and see problems that you can't see in a standing picture.
I always like the bull, Kessler's Frontman until I saw him walk in a video. His back ankles were bent as if his tendons were too short. He almost walked on the ends of his toes. I watched some of his calves to see if it was a hereditary problem...and it was. Several calves had the same problem. Many of the pictures had a lump on the front of their ankle. He sure is a good looking bull though.

This picture of Vermillion Dateline 7078, shows a camel hump of a muscle behind his head; shoulders that look like over sized shoulder pads, and forearms like a Christmas turkey.

What happened to these kind of bulls? They are all smooth looking now.
He is a cow bull, with a BW of 88 lbs. (BW 5.8 ) I have had them to weigh up to 100. The rest of his numbers are great!
http://universalsemensales.com/breeds/angus/vermilion-dateline-7078

Chuckie i have searched every site i can find and there are no videos of him. Where did you see this video. All of the semen companies say he has excellant feet and legs. Unless they are just flat lying something doesn't work here. BTW I have seen the bull Black and Good refers to here and he does have great feet and legs

 

[bse]

her feet and legs are good for right now, at a 7 yr old it could change but for now there good

 

[Chuckie]

Anytime someone advertises their stock in deep grass or straw to cover the ankles, that tells me there are some problems they are hiding. I personally would never buy semen from a bull that is standing in tall grass. I am about to the point where I want to see a video. That is why I ask about the bull here because I want to know about what I can't see. People pay for their advertising and can put anything down that they wish.
He seems to giving to both legs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXJ9imwhqAE


I watched a video earlier this summer where someone had bred several cows to this bull, and they were selling the calves. Many of the calves walked with bent ankles. This could cause problems in a bull as a pasture breeder, or a cow. Some had more problems than others, and some were mild.

They had used straw also, but didn't have it thick enough to cover the ankles. I am not sure who the breeder was that posted the picture on YouTube at the time.

Here is one of the several pictures of a Kesslers Frontman bull.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...5280785692.427423.179068530691&type=1&theater

 

[3waycross]

What I see is that he tracks really short. and his son does seem to have to strange joints.

 

[Chuckie]

Did you notice that at about 35 seconds, his ankle breaks over and it is almost a stumble. Back the video up to around 30 sec.

 

[Chuckie]

3way, that bull should not be tracking short, he has a strong angle in his hock.
The bull is almost sickle hocked. They aren't really angled in, but yet they trail behind his body when he walks. He should be able to get his legs up underneath him better than he does. A bull with very straight legs takes a short stride and can only get them partially underneath himself. This bull should be able to take deep strides, but is not able to because of his ankles. Here is the difference.
Here is Sydgen Mandate. I would not use this bull, as he does not fit my check list, but he is sound; but it shows how far he can get his legs up underneath his belly, all the way up to his tally wackier. Notice when he is walking, that his legs pretty much stop lined up with the rear end of his butt. With his legs going so far up underneath his belly, he will never have any trouble breeding cows. His ankles are clean and good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKXndTegEGQ

 

[KNERSIE]

Where exactly is the ankle on a bovine?

 

[kdhansen]

Anytime someone advertises their stock in deep grass or straw to cover the ankles, that tells me there are some problems they are hiding. I personally would never buy semen from a bull that is standing in tall grass. I am about to the point where I want to see a video. That is why I ask about the bull here because I want to know about what I can't see. People pay for their advertising and can put anything down that they wish.
He seems to giving to both legs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXJ9imwhqAE


I watched a video earlier this summer where someone had bred several cows to this bull, and they were selling the calves. Many of the calves walked with bent ankles. This could cause problems in a bull as a pasture breeder, or a cow. Some had more problems than others, and some were mild.

They had used straw also, but didn't have it thick enough to cover the ankles. I am not sure who the breeder was that posted the picture on YouTube at the time.

Here is one of the several pictures of a Kesslers Frontman bull.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...5280785692.427423.179068530691&type=1&theater

I believe the bull on the facebook page you have here is a TC Aberdeen?? At least that is the name next to "sire"...

There used to be a different video of Frontman, he wasn't on straw...think he was out in a pasture with some cows...searched for it, but can't find it now...

 

[Chuckie]

kdhansen, you are correct, they had several bulls. Let me go back and get another one. I had several slid over on a text document and thought they were all Kessler Foremans. I have a feeling that the ankle problem is coming from Connealy lineage.

 

[Chuckie]

Scroll the web page and you will see all of the cattle. It may be coming from the Conneally lineage.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Did you notice that at about 35 seconds, his ankle breaks over and it is almost a stumble. Back the video up to around 30 sec.

i backed it up 4 times, and never seen him miss a lick,, good looking bull..