Balancer Bull

[cowman]

What do you think about a balancer bull. Just bought one 3/4 gelbvieh 1/4 Angus. I have never had any dealings with the gelbvieh.

 

[kjonesel]

The balancer has become more popular in the last few years with the American Gelbvieh Association registering them. This has kept a record of their lineage and allowed advancement of certain traits. I would recomend that you go to their website and learn more about these bulls. I got started back in the cattle business with heifers that were a cross between purebred polled herefords and a purebred Gelbvieh bull. I'm partial to reds and most balancers are black with a few red ones most of the time having red angus in their lineage. I feel that you will be more than satisfied with the introduction of the balancer bull into your herd especially if you are seeking replacement heifers.

 

[cfpinz]

I love gelbvieh bulls, and balancer cows are the cat's meow in the right setting. But as far as balancer bulls go, been there, done that. No thanks.

If you've got mixed breed cows, you're introducing too much mongrelization.

If you've got pure cows, you're losing hybrid vigour.

It's a lose, lose situation either way I see it.

 

[KNERSIE]

I love gelbvieh bulls, and balancer cows are the cat's meow in the right setting. But as far as balancer bulls go, been there, done that. No thanks.

If you've got mixed breed cows, you're introducing too much mongrelization.

If you've got pure cows, you're losing hybrid vigour.

It's a lose, lose situation either way I see it.

I agree 100%

 

[VanC]

I love gelbvieh bulls, and balancer cows are the cat's meow in the right setting. But as far as balancer bulls go, been there, done that. No thanks.

If you've got mixed breed cows, you're introducing too much mongrelization.

If you've got pure cows, you're losing hybrid vigour.

It's a lose, lose situation either way I see it.

I agree 100%

Why would you lose hybrid vigour?

 

[Brandonm22]

You would not lose any hybrid vigor if the cow herd was neither Angus nor Gelbvieh. IN THEORY, the best cross for a Balancer bull would be Balancer on F1 tiger cows (Brahman x Hereford). I am doubtful of the commercial breeding value of the 4 way heifers, but as a terminal cross you would be maximizing the hybrid vigor. For a two way rotation Hereford x Balancer should produce a highly marketable calf crop with heifers you could put into production.

 

[3waycross]

I love gelbvieh bulls, and balancer cows are the cat's meow in the right setting. But as far as balancer bulls go, been there, done that. No thanks.

If you've got mixed breed cows, you're introducing too much mongrelization.

If you've got pure cows, you're losing hybrid vigour.

It's a lose, lose situation either way I see it.

I agree 100%

With what. If you have purebred cows that are neither Angus or Gelbvieh you are gaining heterosis not losing it..............the 3..way....cross.

I am thinking about breeding a couple of my Gelbvieh cows to a low birthweight Simmental bull next year to get max heterosis on either angus or herf cows.

In effect a continental super blancer so to speak.

 

[cfpinz]

I love gelbvieh bulls, and balancer cows are the cat's meow in the right setting. But as far as balancer bulls go, been there, done that. No thanks.

If you've got mixed breed cows, you're introducing too much mongrelization.

If you've got pure cows, you're losing hybrid vigour.

It's a lose, lose situation either way I see it.

I agree 100%

Why would you lose hybrid vigour?

In my experience, the F1 is the most impressive cross. Everything after that is a disappointment. I've yet to see an F1 bull that could produce offspring that were more impressive than himself.

No theory or research quotes to back that up, just what I've seen with my own eyes and my own checkbook on my own cows.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

If you've got mixed breed cows, you're introducing too much mongrelization.

If you've got pure cows, you're losing hybrid vigour.

It's a lose, lose situation either way I see it.[/quote]

I agree 100%[/quote]

Why would you lose hybrid vigour?[/quote]

In my experience, the F1 is the most impressive cross. Everything after that is a disappointment. I've yet to see an F1 bull that could produce offspring that were more impressive than himself.

No theory or research quotes to back that up, just what I've seen with my own eyes and my own checkbook on my own cows.[/quote].... its the same with the F1 cows to,, they raise a he#@ of a calf but never reproduce as good as theirself.... where the purebred cow can or better... theres gotta be homozygosity in one of the breeds to get the biggest bang from heterosis or else it like a leaking bag

 

[CKSGelbvieh]

I do not raise any Balancers because I do not think that is the right bull for most cow herds. Nearly all of the herds my bulls go to are high percentage Angus OR commercial cows of many different crossed breeds. Not very many have any Gelbvieh in them which is why a purebred makes the most sense for me (and apparently my customers who have never asked for a Balancer). The only place a Balancer makes sense to me is if a person has been using Gelbvieh bulls and retaining heifers and has crossbred Gelbvieh females. Then crossing a 50% Balancer bull on those 50% Balancer females makes sense. But this is all just my opinion.

 

[KNERSIE]

I do not raise any Balancers because I do not think that is the right bull for most cow herds. Nearly all of the herds my bulls go to are high percentage Angus OR commercial cows of many different crossed breeds. Not very many have any Gelbvieh in them which is why a purebred makes the most sense for me (and apparently my customers who have never asked for a Balancer). The only place a Balancer makes sense to me is if a person has been using Gelbvieh bulls and retaining heifers and has crossbred Gelbvieh females. Then crossing a 50% Balancer bull on those 50% Balancer females makes sense. But this is all just my opinion.

In that situation either angus or hereford would make even more sense.

 

[3waycross]

I do not raise any Balancers because I do not think that is the right bull for most cow herds. Nearly all of the herds my bulls go to are high percentage Angus OR commercial cows of many different crossed breeds. Not very many have any Gelbvieh in them which is why a purebred makes the most sense for me (and apparently my customers who have never asked for a Balancer). The only place a Balancer makes sense to me is if a person has been using Gelbvieh bulls and retaining heifers and has crossbred Gelbvieh females. Then crossing a 50% Balancer bull on those 50% Balancer females makes sense. But this is all just my opinion.

In that situation either angus or hereford would make even more sense.

Would'nt you lose heterosis in that case. I have a friend who runs a balancer cowherd, and he gets his best results with balancer bulls. Now going back on them with a Herf makes a lot of sense but how would you benefit from going back with the angus?

 

[KNERSIE]

I do not raise any Balancers because I do not think that is the right bull for most cow herds. Nearly all of the herds my bulls go to are high percentage Angus OR commercial cows of many different crossed breeds. Not very many have any Gelbvieh in them which is why a purebred makes the most sense for me (and apparently my customers who have never asked for a Balancer). The only place a Balancer makes sense to me is if a person has been using Gelbvieh bulls and retaining heifers and has crossbred Gelbvieh females. Then crossing a 50% Balancer bull on those 50% Balancer females makes sense. But this is all just my opinion.

In that situation either angus or hereford would make even more sense.

Would'nt you lose heterosis in that case. I have a friend who runs a balancer cowherd, and he gets his best results with balancer bulls. Now going back on them with a Herf makes a lot of sense but how would you benefit from going back with the angus?

I said to use the angus or hereford on the Gelbvieh type females. If the other genetics is angus you could use hereford for more heterosis, or go back to angus to benefit from a two way cross with more uniformity.

The problem with balancers (or any of the modern so-called composites) is that they aren't genetically stabile so you lose the genetic kick from the heterosis to quite a big extent even though it looks on paper to be the best option.

In this whole crossbreeding idea the F1 FEMALE is the key to the free lunch, the rest is just semantics in my opinion.

 

[3waycross]

I agree but having said that going back to a 3rd breed with her is the most bang for your buck.....no?

 

[KNERSIE]

I agree but having said that going back to a 3rd breed with her is the most bang for your buck.....no?

Not in my experience, the 3-way cross certainly has its merits, but I believe it should be used terminally. An F1 herefordxgelbvieh cow bred to a charolais bull for a terminal cross is in my opinion as close to ideal a feeder calf as you'll likely get, but bringing the 3rd breed into the maternal side of things just complicates breeding options and reduces hybrid vigour in (and mongerlises) the resulting feeder calf.

So to summize, get as much bang for your buck maternally out of the F1 cow and use a 3rd breed terminally to feed the calf in the most economical way is the way I believe crossbreeding is best utelised.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I bought a small SH herd that had been bred Balancer.
Some really nice calves, but half were below average. ;-)
I retained the two best looking heifers. One is becoming a top cow, the other never settled...
Seems like a three way cross requires you to use some of that good old "Hard Cull'in"

 

[3waycross]

I bought a small SH herd that had been bred Balancer.
Some really nice calves, but half were below average. ;-)
I retained the two best looking heifers. One is becoming a top cow, the other never settled...
Seems like a three way cross requires you to use some of that good old "Hard Cull'in"

Or the right bull.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I agree but having said that going back to a 3rd breed with her is the most bang for your buck.....no?

Not in my experience, the 3-way cross certainly has its merits, but I believe it should be used terminally. An F1 herefordxgelbvieh cow bred to a charolais bull for a terminal cross is in my opinion as close to ideal a feeder calf as you'll likely get, but bringing the 3rd breed into the maternal side of things just complicates breeding options and reduces hybrid vigour in (and mongerlises) the resulting feeder calf. /quote]

But then what would we do with all the Angus cattle?

 

[Stocker Steve]

I bought a small SH herd that had been bred Balancer.
Some really nice calves, but half were below average. ;-)
I retained the two best looking heifers. One is becoming a top cow, the other never settled...
Seems like a three way cross requires you to use some of that good old "Hard Cull'in"

Or the right bull.

I cull bulls too. I had 5 yearlings this spring. Have 3 now. Will have less by fall.

 

[KNERSIE]

I agree but having said that going back to a 3rd breed with her is the most bang for your buck.....no?

Not in my experience, the 3-way cross certainly has its merits, but I believe it should be used terminally. An F1 herefordxgelbvieh cow bred to a charolais bull for a terminal cross is in my opinion as close to ideal a feeder calf as you'll likely get, but bringing the 3rd breed into the maternal side of things just complicates breeding options and reduces hybrid vigour in (and mongerlises) the resulting feeder calf. /quote]

But then what would we do with all the Angus cattle?

Cross them with hereford or gelbvieh for replacements or with charolais or limousin for feeder calves