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Bad week, Double Whammy

JMichal

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Last Sunday my clean up Bull came down Lame in right rear hoof. Brought him in to Vet and he thought it is Foot Rot. I also thought so as the pain is in the foot. Treated him with Exceed on Monday. Still Lame. Vet said to hit him with it again Sunday. Also wants to start on a Sulfa powder that mixes with water then pour on grain. Does anyone out there think it could be something other than infection? If so, what? Doesn't seem to be an injury. How can I diagnose. Don't trust vets alot as they seem to rely alot on trial and error. I have taught some of the local Vets about problems sporting dogs have that they did not know how to treat as they haven't seen it before. I just don't have alot of faith in Vets or M.D.'s

Then yesterday 7, 8 month old Bull calves all came down with some type of Respiratory deal. I treated them as you would Pneumonia. They are about 900 lbs so I hit em with 10ml of Banamine, and 11ml of Draxxin. Took Temps on 3. The 2 that seemed the sickest before I started were at 105.4. The one that seemed to not be sick last night or this morning was at 107. After I finished he looked awful sick. He was the only one eating last night.

If anyone has any info or insight or just plain old support please post. It will be greatly appreciated. I guess I need to start looking for another clean up Bull or I am sure I will have a few Open Cows. He was in with my commercial cows since Dec.1 so maybe he got all them. My purebreds were AI'd and put in with him about 4 days before he went bad. If I missed any of them they will be due in around the 15th.

Does anyone know of a Gelbvieh bull I could lease for a month or buy if I had to. I am in the SW corner of Missouri. So Ok, KS, and AR are all close. My heard is BVD PI free. Johnes free. And gets vaccinations on schedule. Very clean farm. No strange animals brought in. Would need same stuff on new Bull.

Thanks for any help.
 

Green Creek

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Have you thought about contacting Jackie at Joplin Regional Stockyards? If anyone would know where to get you a bull, he would.
 

DavisBeefmasters

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JMichal":lmu0l589 said:
Does anyone out there think it could be something other than infection? If so, what? Doesn't seem to be an injury. How can I diagnose.

Did you confine the bull and check his foot?

Cut? -- if so, the anti-biotics will get him taken care of in a few days

Wart? -- is there a growth between the "toes"? that might need to be trimmed out -- there was a picture on here on a different thread awhile back you might search for...

Sprain? -- he could have got a little off balance while taking care of business and just needs a week or so in a small pen and he'll be fine

Foot rot? -- a little Magnesium with a little Bo-Se (Vitamin B and Selenium) may just assist in working it out.

Good luck and let us know what you find.
 

redcowsrule33

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On the bull - did you trim out the foot at all? Could be an abscess/cut/nail.

On the calves - anything with a temp that high I worry about viral causes. Antibiotics won't help unless there is a secondary bacterial infection.
 

rockridgecattle

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on the bull, agree with the hoof trimming, we had one where the absess was only found once the hoof was trimmed and she, our vet dug around abit.

On the calves...get the vet out. Do some tests on IBR BVD and a few other thinngs. Real important to get the right drug to treat what is going on. Right now they are not gaining which means you are losing.

Things your vet will ask if she/he does not know
are they home grown
were the mommas pre breed ML vaccinated, was it done properly
were the calves vaccinated were they bostered?
If the booster was missed you could be fighting hemophlous( or some other strange word)

Get the vet out now
 

JMichal

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DavisBeefmasters":r3604jrf said:
JMichal":r3604jrf said:
Does anyone out there think it could be something other than infection? If so, what? Doesn't seem to be an injury. How can I diagnose.

Did you confine the bull and check his foot?

Cut? -- if so, the anti-biotics will get him taken care of in a few days

Wart? -- is there a growth between the "toes"? that might need to be trimmed out -- there was a picture on here on a different thread awhile back you might search for...

Sprain? -- he could have got a little off balance while taking care of business and just needs a week or so in a small pen and he'll be fine

Foot rot? -- a little Magnesium with a little Bo-Se (Vitamin B and Selenium) may just assist in working it out.

Good luck and let us know what you find.

I did not get it off the ground and look at it. I will put him in the chute tommorrow and try and get it up where I can see it better.
rockridgecattle":r3604jrf said:
on the bull, agree with the hoof trimming, we had one where the absess was only found once the hoof was trimmed and she, our vet dug around abit.

On the calves...get the vet out. Do some tests on IBR BVD and a few other thinngs. Real important to get the right drug to treat what is going on. Right now they are not gaining which means you are losing.

Things your vet will ask if she/he does not know
are they home grown
were the mommas pre breed ML vaccinated, was it done properly
were the calves vaccinated were they bostered?
If the booster was missed you could be fighting hemophlous( or some other strange word)

Get the vet out now

Did have the vet out. Thought it was Pneumonia also. Did get Vision 7 and Booster. Sept. and October
Heifers of same age are in a different pasture and fine.
 

JMichal

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redcowsrule33":prscazvc said:
On the bull - did you trim out the foot at all? Could be an abscess/cut/nail.

On the calves - anything with a temp that high I worry about viral causes. Antibiotics won't help unless there is a secondary bacterial infection.

I agree on the viral infection. But the Antibiotics do help tremendously as they help to prevent a bacterial infection that can get into the damaged lung tissue which is caused by the viral infection. They seem to be doing better now, eating some bermuda grass hay. Not as much discharge. Less coughing. I think the Banamine hepls a ton. I know when I have a chest flu, or cold the, newer flu and cold products sure help clean me out.
 

rockridgecattle

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when the vet was out, did she do any bvd or ibr tests...in hope to identify if the pnemonia was a secondary infection to the more prevallent one? If several animals are sick, would be a good idea.
 

hillsdown

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My heard is BVD PI free. Johnes free. And gets vaccinations on schedule. Very clean farm. No strange animals brought in. Would need same stuff on new Bull

Sounds like the herd is vaccinated and tested..
 

LoveMoo11

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I don't really have any suggestions other than those already posted, but sorry that you had such a crappy week. As my boyfriend is fond of saying "If it ain't one thing, its another". Hope things get better for you
 

JMichal

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rockridgecattle":2w7ttafr said:
when the vet was out, did she do any bvd or ibr tests...in hope to identify if the pnemonia was a secondary infection to the more prevallent one? If several animals are sick, would be a good idea.

No he did not. Our herd was tested and is BVD PI negative on all animals, including these. I test all the calves also. I do understand they can still pick up BVD. The calves ate some Bermuda hay but are still off the grain. Dicharge is much better but some are still coughing. All are still lethargic. They do look alot better than yesterday morning.
 

JMichal

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Update. Brought the big bull in the cutev this morning. Lifted his hoof with a rope through the back of the chute. Got back there and cleaned the bottom, looked good there. He is able to kick very well. Foot is what is tender I believe. I tried to clean and inspect between claws but could not do a good job. He seemed to be sensitive to seperating the claws. I hit him with another round of Excede, and 20 ml of Banamine.

How long has anyone had a Bull, or Cow, lame from Hoof Rot, and still recover? I know it can get into the bone and you are pretty much done then. I did get him medicated within 2 days after 1st sign of limp.

Right now it is wait and see on the calves. I will call vet monday AM if they are still off feed.
 

dun

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To clean between the claws I take a length of baler twine and double it over a couple of times then use it like dental floss between the claws.
 

hillsdown

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Foot rot is a common disease that affects nearly all groups of cattle. Once started in a herd and "seeded" in the soil, it may persist for quite a long time. Cuts, bruises, puncture wounds, or severe abrasions permit bacteria to enter the tissue of the foot where they start an infection. Foot rot occurs during periods of extreme moisture, sudden freezing of muddy yards, or severe drought. The first observed sign of foot rot is lameness in one or more feet. Lameness caused by acute foot rot is followed by swelling of the foot, spreading of the toes, and reddening of the tissue above the hoof. In severe cases, the foot will abscess above the hoof with a discharge that has a characteristic foul odor. If the infection is not stopped, it will invade the deeper tissues of the foot and may invade one or more joints, causing chronic arthritis.
Research has indicated than when treatment was administered the first day, recovery was observed in 3 to 4 days. When delayed for 3 days, treatment was required again at 7 days, recovery was delayed for 10 to 12 days, and two animals required 30 to 45 days with multiple treatments to recover. Penicillin, oxytetracyclines (including the long-acting products such as LA200®), a number of the sulfa drugs, Ceftiofur (Naxcel®) and Florfenicol (Nuflor®) are some of the products used to treat foot rot. While you have the animal up, check the foot for foreign objects. If infection proceeds and infects the joints, arthritis may develop and claw amputation may be needed to correct the condition until the animal can be salvaged at slaughter.

My question is why Exceed . I would be using Naxcel, Excenel, Trivetrin or Nuflor. You can give him a copper sulphate foot bath as well , just set it up where he has to walk through.
 

Nesikep

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we had one cow that had gotten a sliver of old hay (mostly really coarse alfalfa stems) in her hind foot and was lame for quite some time, I don't know if it was really footrot, but she had an infection for some time, but she got over it fine, we did clean up her foot and remove slivers, etc.

good luck with your animals, always sucks when they're not well!
 

jedstivers

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A garden type pump up sprayer with hydrogen peroxide sprayed twice a day helps also if it is rot or any kind of wound. A squeeze bottle of copper-tox helps also. These are good in the chute or if you can get close while he is eating sweet-feed.
 

Nesikep

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Iodine is good stuff too

I would try and get them onto a place that's flat, smooth and dry, so they don't keep poking stuff into the wound and it can dry up a little.
 

JMichal

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hillsdown":uo2ummd9 said:
Foot rot is a common disease that affects nearly all groups of cattle. Once started in a herd and "seeded" in the soil, it may persist for quite a long time. Cuts, bruises, puncture wounds, or severe abrasions permit bacteria to enter the tissue of the foot where they start an infection. Foot rot occurs during periods of extreme moisture, sudden freezing of muddy yards, or severe drought. The first observed sign of foot rot is lameness in one or more feet. Lameness caused by acute foot rot is followed by swelling of the foot, spreading of the toes, and reddening of the tissue above the hoof. In severe cases, the foot will abscess above the hoof with a discharge that has a characteristic foul odor. If the infection is not stopped, it will invade the deeper tissues of the foot and may invade one or more joints, causing chronic arthritis.
Research has indicated than when treatment was administered the first day, recovery was observed in 3 to 4 days. When delayed for 3 days, treatment was required again at 7 days, recovery was delayed for 10 to 12 days, and two animals required 30 to 45 days with multiple treatments to recover. Penicillin, oxytetracyclines (including the long-acting products such as LA200®), a number of the sulfa drugs, Ceftiofur (Naxcel®) and Florfenicol (Nuflor®) are some of the products used to treat foot rot. While you have the animal up, check the foot for foreign objects. If infection proceeds and infects the joints, arthritis may develop and claw amputation may be needed to correct the condition until the animal can be salvaged at slaughter.

My question is why Exceed . I would be using Naxcel, Excenel, Trivetrin or Nuflor. You can give him a copper sulphate foot bath as well , just set it up where he has to walk through.

That was my question also. The vet said to use it because it was a slow release that would last 7 days. And thought one treatment would do it. I would have used Nuflor if it was any other time of the year. I would have treated it myself without the Vet. But I wanted to get him up and back with the girls as soon as I could. It may not be Foot Rot. Could be a sprain. Some Vets like to shoot from the hip.
 

JMichal

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Update.

Bull calves all came to the feed troughs tonight. Only 1 wasn't eating. They did not eat with the vigor they usually have but they were all eating except one. He seems to be the sickest all day.

I was saved by a Rancher close by here for clean up. Jon Miller of J Bar M Gelbvieh had a bull I could lease. In fact it turns out he is an AI Bull. J-Bob 4665M. He's a Balancer but that will work much better than having some open cows. I only need him til Feb. 15 for Insurance purposes. I picked the new Bull up this afternoon. I stopped at the gate into the pastures, right next to the pen where are clean up bull is. He came towards us at a very fast walk, with a slight limp. A little later I went back over and he was moving around much better. I think it is the Banamine. It will be interesting to see how he is doing tommorrow.
 

rockridgecattle

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your bull might be recovering, but if he had a fever, his swimmers will be toast and it takes 3 weeks to rebuild the stock....from experience and our vet.
 

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