Auctions: Agree or Disagree?

[Chuckie]

Quoting: "If you are at an auction and you haven't figured out who the suckers are within the first five minutes, then you are the sucker. Auctions are designed to confuse the buyer about how many people are actually bidding, and where the last real bid was. Quite often you are bidding against yourself.

In the seedstock business, often the price bids are "swaps" and other subterfuges to raise the reported price of the animal to lure new suckers into the game. If you don't know the real price of the animal, you can't determine the risk in buying it. If you buy anything without knowing the risk, you are the sucker."

 

[MikeC]

Quoting: "If you are at an auction and you haven't figured out who the suckers are within the first five minutes, then you are the sucker. Auctions are designed to confuse the buyer about how many people are actually bidding, and where the last real bid was. Quite often you are bidding against yourself.

In the seedstock business, often the price bids are "swaps" and other subterfuges to raise the reported price of the animal to lure new suckers into the game. If you don't know the real price of the animal, you can't determine the risk in buying it. If you buy anything without knowing the risk, you are the sucker."

Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. At a seed stock auction I usually know the Auctioneer, the Sale Consultant, and the Seller.
That tells me how much, or how little, I get "Sucked In".

I have seen as many as 10 "False" bidders working a high dollar animal with a "pre-arranged" low limit.

Goes the same way for equipment auctions, antique auctions, etc.

 

[bigbull338]

over the yrs ive been to some production sales.an i watch an listen very carefully.i dont get sucked into bidding.i get nervious an try not to big to quick.went to a beefmaster sale in may.the auctioneer was running the bidds up high.but never had no 1 bidding on them.then he would back down to $1000.then people would start bidding.scott

 

[BRG]

Quoting: "If you are at an auction and you haven't figured out who the suckers are within the first five minutes, then you are the sucker. Auctions are designed to confuse the buyer about how many people are actually bidding, and where the last real bid was. Quite often you are bidding against yourself.

In the seedstock business, often the price bids are "swaps" and other subterfuges to raise the reported price of the animal to lure new suckers into the game. If you don't know the real price of the animal, you can't determine the risk in buying it. If you buy anything without knowing the risk, you are the sucker."

Their are some that this happens with. But for the most part, I disagree. I work alot of sales and I won't allow it to happen with me or my employees. Sometimes they have a bottom on a particular animal, that they need so much for him or they will take him home and use him himself if they don't get it. I don't have a problem with that, but just running a bid up to be greedy, I do. Most auctions have enough people in the stands that are actually bidding. If they are just running an animal it will ruin your name and pretty soon you won't have anyone there.

 

[Chuckie]

I went to an equipment sale one time. I knew the ring man, but he wasn't someone I was around a lot, and I didn't know the auctioneer, but he did a lot of business in that area, and still does. The ring man told me that there was a piece of equipment that he wanted, but he couldn't bid on it, and when he came to it, he said that he would act like I was bidding, but not to do or say anything. I took what he said to be true. When he got to the piece, I was standing close, and he would point to me like I was bidding. I never changed my look and never moved. He kept throwing his hand up and hollering. Then when the piece of equipment got to a certain price, he kept coming back to me and acted like I didn't want it. He really put on a show acting like I was thinking hard about bidding or not.

The tractor I had at the time was a 3020 John Deere. The piece of equipment was a four bottom breaking plow. A man standing close to me, who is a loud mouth know it all, got loud and started telling me that my tractor would only pull a three bottom plow. He got louder, acting like he was trying to get attention. The man finally said real loud, "Your tractor can't handle that piece of equipment I told you," and everyone was looking at me.

Of course this put me on the spot. I finally said, "What makes you think I am buying this for my tractor?" I was getting in a pinch, and didn't want the attention. The bid finally ended up with another man buying the plow. I learned afterwards that the ringman brought equipment of his own to the sale and sold it there. I also learned later on that the ringman could lie to you and never bat an eye. I never asked him if it was his piece of equipment, but I have a pretty good idea that he wasn't trying to buy it for himself. He either was running it up for him or for someone else. I guess I was one of the suckers that day.

 

[ga. prime]

Very interesting story, Chuckie.

 

[showme]

One thing I have trouble with is figureing that out. Give me some signs of a game buyer(game buyer- someone there to run up prices for the sale) Help me find out who that is? I am attending a good bit of sales this fall could use the adivce. Thanks

 

[Scotty]

Quoting: "If you are at an auction and you haven't figured out who the suckers are within the first five minutes, then you are the sucker. Auctions are designed to confuse the buyer about how many people are actually bidding, and where the last real bid was. Quite often you are bidding against yourself.

In the seedstock business, often the price bids are "swaps" and other subterfuges to raise the reported price of the animal to lure new suckers into the game. If you don't know the real price of the animal, you can't determine the risk in buying it. If you buy anything without knowing the risk, you are the sucker."

Right as rain. When teaching ag I went to a hog sale. Had a pig at 500 and got bumped t o510 and quit. The auctionere gave me that pig at 500. I loudly asked were his 510 was and got no responce. Did not take the pig home.


Scotty

 

[frenchie]

I guess I was one of the suckers that day.

Chuckie..I know how you feel ...I went to a sale few yrs back and was bidding on an hay wagon..when I realized the guy bidding me up was the owner.

I quite loudly said..Jim whats this your bidding on your own equipment.

His face got real red and he left.

After that they could not hardly get a bid. :lol:

 

[showme]

One thing I have trouble with is figureing that out. Give me some signs of a game buyer(game buyer- someone there to run up prices for the sale) Help me find out who that is? I am attending a good bit of sales this fall could use the adivce. Thanks

Can someone give me an answer please?

 

[Beefy]

just keep an eye on the bidders. if you see one that is bidding up and then at the last minute stopping (and not buying ANY cows) that should be a tip off.

 

[showme]

so say there is a heifer in there i bid 3000 he bids 3100 i bid again what is he going to do keep bidding or stop?

 

[Beefy]

i dont know. a lot depends on if you look like a sucker or not, if he knows who you are, if he knows you are paying attention to whos bidding, if anyone else is bidding, if he just really thinks she will bring that much, how much shes actually worth, etc. probably b/c you are younger he would keep upping until he got close to what he was wanting. sometimes if they win they will pretend like they didnt bid but then people get ticked off and alot of times this happens to new bidders too though by mistake. i always like to see the little girl fanning herself get smacked by her daddy, "dont DO that!" lol

 

[Chuckie]

I have seen them take a bid from the first guy, then go out in the crowd as if someone else threw in a higher bid. Then come back to the first guy with a higher price and he says "no." Then they start acting like the guy that threw the higher bid changes his mind and he doesn't want it. Then they say the first guy is back in the race with the original bid. I have seen this happen several times. I wonder if the other guy really exsists.
SCFarms, I do believe auctions can confuse any auction goer. Even a seasoned auction goer. When the auctioneer starts the bids and goes real fast, it makes the people get excited. Then the ringmen, all ten of them, start hollering at once. Then no one knows if the bidder really exsists or not. The ringmen holler at the same time and there is no way to see all the people at once.
When you ask about bidding 3000, and then they start the rant of 3100, no one has taken the bid unless he starts going up again. If he starts 3200, he most likely got a bid at 3100, or either he is just acting like he got a bid trying to get you to bid against yourself.
It is hard to describe it. You just have to be there to see and hear it.

 

[Frankie]

I've seen auctioneers run the bids at sales. I've seen owners ask "friends" to bid on cattle for them. And I've seen ring men refuse to accept a bid from an owner without a name attached to the bid.

But in my opinion, you should not let anyone else decide how much you will pay for anything.

Know what it's worth to you and bid no more than that. Sure, you might pay more than you have to if they run the bid on you, but you shouldn't pay more than what YOU think it's worth.

If you're planning to buy some registered Angus cattle, try to get to some sales as an observer, learn about pedigrees, what you'd expect to sell high or not. When you decide to get your feet wet and actually want to buy something, get to the sale early. Talk to the owners of the cattle. Ask them if they have a "floor" on the animal and for how much. If you liked the animal and it doesn't make the floor, talk to the owner later. I've seen owners looking for that last bidder after the sale when they realize they have to haul their cow back home. Don't fall in love with a particular animal. If you don't get her at or near your price, there's probably one as good or better at the another sale. Or you may have to go home and reevaluate the price you were willing to pay. Good luck...

 

[ben171]

there are also people put into the stands that help the auction to protect the seller. this is very important if you are the seller. i have been to many a sale that two or three guys in the stands will bid with no real intent on buying the animal, they are protecting the seller and the barn, if they catch the animal the barn ends up paying for it and hauling it to another sale or slaughter later in the week or it will be at the same sale next week. this happens very often. i would not go to a barn for the first time and buy an animal. frequent the barn and you will learn who the buyers are for what particular breed, size, ect. you must be careful not to buy the jockeyed around cattle. i will see the same calves at sales week after week.

 

[SF]

I disagree. Auctions don't take advantage of anymore than any other method of buying and selling does. If you go to an auction to buy, you should determine ahead of time what you are looking for and what you are willing to pay for it. If you are selling, you should know what you're willing to accept.

I've seen good cattle sell at an auction for much more than I'd be willing to pay for them. I've seen them sell much cheaper than some of the private treaty sales.

Take charge of you buying and selling. Be responsible for your actions and you won't be a sucker, whether at the auction or private treaty.

 

[dun]

I've seen auctioneers run the bids at sales. I've seen owners ask "friends" to bid on cattle for them. And I've seen ring men refuse to accept a bid from an owner without a name attached to the bid.

But in my opinion, you should not let anyone else decide how much you will pay for anything.

Know what it's worth to you and bid no more than that. Sure, you might pay more than you have to if they run the bid on you, but you shouldn't pay more than what YOU think it's worth.

If you're planning to buy some registered Angus cattle, try to get to some sales as an observer, learn about pedigrees, what you'd expect to sell high or not. When you decide to get your feet wet and actually want to buy something, get to the sale early. Talk to the owners of the cattle. Ask them if they have a "floor" on the animal and for how much. If you liked the animal and it doesn't make the floor, talk to the owner later. I've seen owners looking for that last bidder after the sale when they realize they have to haul their cow back home. Don't fall in love with a particular animal. If you don't get her at or near your price, there's probably one as good or better at the another sale. Or you may have to go home and reevaluate the price you were willing to pay. Good luck...

Frankies is the best auction advice. Know what you're willing to pay and don;t go over. If you're a sucker at that point, you're the one that did it to yourself

dun

 

[dph]

Frankie did give great advice. Where we buy cattle they always run the calf into the ring and all of the sudden everybody is bidding. One ring man hears another one yell yep so he hollers also. That quits after the initial seconds. I think it is just trying to get potential buyers hurried and push their top bid up. I don't mind that as much, but when it comes down to two or three parties establishing the price of anything, one of them had better not be the ringman. I have never felt that has happened to us where we buy bulls.

You can always ask the auctioneer where his bid is, though that tends to rile them up a bit.

One thing I will say, is if you know it is going on, you can bet the breeder is aware of it too. And if that is the case, it isn't just a reflection of the auction company.

 

[Scotty]

I've seen auctioneers run the bids at sales. I've seen owners ask "friends" to bid on cattle for them. And I've seen ring men refuse to accept a bid from an owner without a name attached to the bid.

But in my opinion, you should not let anyone else decide how much you will pay for anything.

Know what it's worth to you and bid no more than that. Sure, you might pay more than you have to if they run the bid on you, but you shouldn't pay more than what YOU think it's worth.

If you're planning to buy some registered Angus cattle, try to get to some sales as an observer, learn about pedigrees, what you'd expect to sell high or not. When you decide to get your feet wet and actually want to buy something, get to the sale early. Talk to the owners of the cattle. Ask them if they have a "floor" on the animal and for how much. If you liked the animal and it doesn't make the floor, talk to the owner later. I've seen owners looking for that last bidder after the sale when they realize they have to haul their cow back home. Don't fall in love with a particular animal. If you don't get her at or near your price, there's probably one as good or better at the another sale. Or you may have to go home and reevaluate the price you were willing to pay. Good luck...

Frankies is the best auction advice. Know what you're willing to pay and don;t go over. If you're a sucker at that point, you're the one that did it to yourself

dun

DING. We have a winner. Pay attention no whiners.


Scotty