Anybody use CIDR for 14 days vs. 7?

[Amo]

Did a search on here. Didn't find much.

Was courious to anybody's experiences using the CIDR for 14 days on virgin heifers vs going the 7 day route? Soposedly better responce with 14 day. Thinking about TAI them, not sure yet though. If I go the 7 day route I could (yes I know your not soposed to) re-use them on the cows. Ive been told (which I would think is the opposite way arround) that a heifer will need more drug to make it work. So that would cut the quality of being able to reuse the CIDRs.

TIA
Gary

 

[bse]

Ive used both i really like the 14 day it works well for me cant give you exact percentages. I vaccinate when i put the cidrs in so it kinda takes care of two things there but you do have to get them up the extra time for the lut so it kinda works out the same on number of times to get them up. Some will show a mild heat a few days after you pull the cidr just ignore it. If you patch them and can breed them after they come into heat not just straight time. ive found you have that few that will come in 12hrs early and if you wait on timed you could miss them.

 

[Amo]

BSE (cool handle) do you wait the 19 days between CIDR pull and PG shot? The way your statement is worded Im not sure how you do it.

 

[bse]

Its 16 days after i pull the cidr PG, then breed on day 18 or 19 depending how they come in. Which will be day 32 or 33 then at 72hrs after PG breed all of them even if no signs of heat.

 

[Anguscattle]

Ive never tried that. I guess I can see where it would work if youre using a 32-33 day sync program. To me though that seems pointless. Based on a cows cycle, 7 days is more than enough. Thats why its so widely recommended. Not to mention you waste a month just on a sync protocol! What if that cow doesnt settle?? You put her through another 30+ day sync program? I dont see how that's efficient. But to each his own. Good luck!

 

[bse]

Its only a heifer protocol. If she doesnt settle you rebreed when she comes in at around 21 days. This protocol is just to get the heifers cycling i adjust mine where it falls in line with the cows on a 7 day protocol breed them all in the same couple of days. You dont waste anytime you just start your heifers 26 days earlier vaccinating everything then anyway. When i pull cidrs on the cows the heifers go through and get PG just like the cows no trouble and actually just save a shot of GNRH.

 

[Anguscattle]

I see. I thought you used that for all cows. In the case of jumpstarting heifers, I can see where it could work well.

 

[Amo]

Thats what Im having trouble deciding about. The heifers are ridding. Weather they ALL are ridding or not is the question. You have to plan just as far ahead doing 14 day as MGA. Might not "jump start" with MGA though. Last year was the first time did heifers. Got about 60% stuck. Did this via heat detection and TAI on 4 head out of 24 I think. Had one open and started March 8 and have 2 left to calve. TAI was about 50%. I wasn't very impressed with that. Makes me kinda leary how the AI reps proclaim how well it works. It works good for them because it makes their schedual more flexable! Unfornatly I do hire the "sticking" done. So was hoping that the 14 day might help with totally TAI program.

 

[Anguscattle]

Personally we try to use strict heat detection. I hear the reps and others say how well TAI works, and i know it does for some people, but to me it seems like theres some gaps in it. If its heat detection then you know the cow was in heat and about when she'll be ovulating. TAI just seems like a shot in the dark. A rep i talked to in Nebraska said he bred 2000-3000 head a year, mostly TAI, and said he had around 70% conception. Not bad. But I get better on heat detection and have the time to do it so that works best for me. Its whatever fits your needs and schedule.

 

[Amo]

I could live with 70%! Thats what I had with the one guy. He got too busy so switched to another. Dropped about 10%. Which is better than what I could get. The new guys farms so time is tight. Plus I do crop insurance adjusting. Just convience I guess. I hear guys out here say 50-60 with TAI and then try to spin the lesser conception rate with saving on labor. Which is proabaly right.

 

[ousoonerfan22]

So what about the cows that don't stick do you turn them out with a bull or AI them again?

 

[Anguscattle]

Most people ive talked to that breed on a TAI basis just turn in a cleanup bull. But we dont really do TAI much so you might want an opinion from someone more experienced.

 

[bse]

I think its like Angus cattle said most turn out the bull. I think it makes a big difference if you do your own or have a tech. I patch everything the non responders the patch stays on so if it will last ill know. I repatch at day 17 and rebred anything coming in. Last fall they came back day 19 through 24. And yes about 65% onfirst breeding. If you do the second i think your % goes way up and its the cheapest breeding you will do if you sync your cattle. And i do believe natural heat is best just not practical for most people.

 

[Anguscattle]

If I had the time I would breed natural heat all the way! I think its def better than syncing.

 

[SSGenetics]

If I had the time I would breed natural heat all the way! I think its def better than syncing.

I agree.... If only the days were longer.... :help:

 

[HOSS]

I have never tried the 14 day protocol. I do almost all of my breeding TAI due to working a regular day job. I need to set it up so I can breed at a given time when I am off work. I use the 7 day CIDR protocol. I have been fortunate to have a high success rate overall. One year I got 100% to stick. I normally run about 70 to 75%. I also use a clean-up bull on the group that I A.I. unless it is a heifer and I usually re-breed A.I. because the low BW bull I use is so dependable on heifers. I do not A.I. my whole herd however. I usually pick out the 10 or 12 best cows that I have for making heifers and I A.I. them in the hopes of getting great heifers for retention. I have a few registered cows and they all get A.I.'d.

 

[Amo]

Well seen the local ABS rep today at sale barn. He stated he liked the 14 day because the drug in the CIDR or MGA is imediatly removed when you pull the CIDR. Says MGA can get hung up in fat deposits and that strings out the heat. He said it worked very well last year...I don't remember the exact numbers.

He claimed 70% on heiffers TAI and 80% on cows TAI. He has done it for a long time and is very good. He is booked solid every year. I think Im going to go 14 day and still heat detect and TAI. Just in case of an early bird.