another sick calf question

[donnaIL]

Calf was born last Wed afternoon, that night it started raining, got 2+ inches of rain Wed/Thur. Tempature swings from warm to cold and the cow& calf in the pasture...very muddy we had record rains last month. During this time calf seemed fine running around in circles, bucking etc..cows bag looked like it had been nursed.

Sunday calf has droopy ears, loose stools (not water thought), shivering & not too thrifty, tuped calf with electrolites and gave probois (not that brand but it had vitamin in it so I thought it might helt). I suspected a respitory problem.

Monday went to vet and got draxxin shot and more electolites, tubed calf again, gave shot and probois. Calf does get up when I'm working him and he is moving around just not thrifty.

Today it is getting warmer (65), calf was up and around, then checked on him he is laying on side, heavy respirations, panting and snot bubbles coming out of nose.
Now I am questioning whether he is nursing (cows bag is not engorged, so I kinda think he is). Last couple days after tubing him he was up and around afterwards for a few minutes.

Question is do you think I should give him some milk replacer or just stick with the electrolite? I'm going to do a more thorough exam this evening. we have warmer drier weather on the way so I hope with that and the shot he will be back to running/bucking by the weekend.
Thanks, donna

 

[larryshoat]

Almost sounds to me like he is dehydrated . I would keep up with the electrolytes and try to make sure he is nursing . Some SMZ pills and a shot of banamine might help him feel better .

Larry

 

[hillsdown]

I had two really sick babies this year and instead of taking any chances I pulled them from their mothers and gave them milk ,meds and electrolytes as needed until they showed considerable improvement.One was even kept for 4 days and his mom was really glad to have him back. Thankgoodness that all my efforts were worth it as both are running around and are very healthy.

So you might want to do that; it is better than having a dead calf.

 

[angie1]

For sure the banamine.
Larry ~ what is smz?

I do not normally disagree with HD, but I would not pull the calf for as long as you are able to keep him with the cow and still work with him.

 

[larryshoat]

For sure the banamine.
Larry ~ what is smz?

I do not normally disagree with HD, but I would not pull the calf for as long as you are able to keep him with the cow and still work with him.

SMZ is Sulfamethoxazole and Trimethoprim, comes in small pill form, used in pre-ruminating calves for scours and respiratory problems .

Larry

 

[iowafarmer]

Soudns like what you suggested a respiratory problem. IF the weather went through high and lows while gettign moister that is hard on them if they can't get somewhere to hold their body heat and stay dry some of the time. How long was it raining if it was over a day or two then it is porbalby respiratory if it rained for only 2 hours or so then it probably isn't respiratory problem. He could be dehydrated but he should have snot then. Talk to your local vet they should know what the weather was like and your climate and what to do.

 

[msscamp]

Calf was born last Wed afternoon, that night it started raining, got 2+ inches of rain Wed/Thur. Tempature swings from warm to cold and the cow& calf in the pasture...very muddy we had record rains last month. During this time calf seemed fine running around in circles, bucking etc..cows bag looked like it had been nursed.

Sunday calf has droopy ears, loose stools (not water thought), shivering & not too thrifty, tuped calf with electrolites and gave probois (not that brand but it had vitamin in it so I thought it might helt). I suspected a respitory problem.

Monday went to vet and got draxxin shot and more electolites, tubed calf again, gave shot and probois. Calf does get up when I'm working him and he is moving around just not thrifty.

Today it is getting warmer (65), calf was up and around, then checked on him he is laying on side, heavy respirations, panting and snot bubbles coming out of nose.
Now I am questioning whether he is nursing (cows bag is not engorged, so I kinda think he is). Last couple days after tubing him he was up and around afterwards for a few minutes.

Question is do you think I should give him some milk replacer or just stick with the electrolite? I'm going to do a more thorough exam this evening. we have warmer drier weather on the way so I hope with that and the shot he will be back to running/bucking by the weekend.
Thanks, donna

Sounds like you might have two problems - probable developing pneumonia, and possible scours. I would hit him with about 10 cc's of penicillin for the developing pneumonia and, if his manure is still loose, I would also hit him with an anti-scour medication such as SMX or Terramycin. Rain is notorious for causing scours, due to the calf becoming wet and chilled. Electrolytes and Probios alone will not stop scours caused by these conditions, you need to medicate with something that is intended for scours - Terramycin works well if you have a closed herd, there is also Spectum Halt (I think that is right), and SMX, to name just a few.

 

[donnaIL]

thanks for all your replies.

iowa farmer..it rained for days not hours and this has been a wet spring, I figure you have the same thing going there. Most the time we have them out to pasture in late march early april, this year almost everyone still has their cows penned.

I have tubed electrolytes 3 days...left him alone today as he seemed alittle better (ears kinda perked up), yesterday, stool was firm yellow/orange and think he is nursing, not shivering today but it was in the 70's. suppose to get storms tomorrow.

I am still concerned because he still just lays around. went in a messed with him today tried to get him up he would not get up...never seen this but his nose totally dry, and looked like it was peeling. His mother did get him up late this evening and we think he was nursing, (she loves him and thinks i am trying to steal him). I am thinking he must be feeding or he would not survive a week (Is that right?) I am hoping the draxxin will do the job. Plan on checking him in the am since did not give electrolytes this evening and then decide if I need to do anything. I hope he is running around tomorrow.

Thanks again, donna

 

[angie1]

His nose is peeling ~ he has had a fever, still has a fever. Did you try the banamine? Need to keep up the electrolytes, is probably the main thing that has kept him alive thus far. He will starve to death on only electrolytes unless they are "complete" ~ not all are......

If you get storms tomorrow and he is left out in them ~ the show is over I am thinking.
I would really encourage the banamine if you haven;t tried already.

Lots of Luck!

 

[iowafarmer]

Actually we have only had one storm this spring with claves o nthe ground. Tube him with electrolites still and make sure he isn't running a temp and treat accordingly. Talk to your vet and see what you all can get and what they suggest.

 

[donnaIL]

Update: calf is now 1 & 1/5 weeks old and still sick. The calf is not scouring, stools are normal. But he is still weak, lays around alot, looks like it is hard for him to walk (because he is weak). Another weird thing about this calf is it has not made a sound.

Thursday 4/17 tempature was 102.8., he still didn't seem strong and rain was on the way. Called the vet on Friday got the banamine and gave it to him (BTW she, the vet, for some reason thinks I am just looking for something to do, she has not seen the calf and makes this assumption during our phone conversation). Saturday he seemed a little stronger, did nothing. Sat night more drizzle and today he was panting, mouth foaming, looked weak and uncomfortable, tempature was 105. Watched him nurse but it did not look like he was sucking right, gave him another shot banamine, some electrolytes (he would not suck the bottle). Put the weight tape on him and weight range per tape is 115/fleshy, 134/thin...he is a thin 10 day old calf. he did get up to and walk away from me today--so that was a good thing.

The med's I've gotten have been for an 85lb calf, today was the 7th day for the draxxin to do its thing.
I'm now wonder what to do. I don't know if the vet was having a bad day or what ever but the impression she gave me was to just leave the calf alone. I am not the only person who has seen this calf and my sister and her daughter-in-law (who did not know anything about the calf) immediately said "what is the matter with that calf--it looks like it could die". Is it possible the meds have not been strong enough? should I just give more banamine a few days. I probably will call the vet again and "bother them", suppose I could try and load him up & take him there or call another vet.

Any suggestions? thanks, Donna

 

[milkmaid]

Are you giving him antibiotics? banamine is only a pain-reliever/anti-inflammatory. Won't do a thing to get rid of what ever pathogen is causing problems.

105'F is a high temp. 103'F is the upper end of normal. Calfie definitely has problems... maybe pneumonia? hard to say. How badly do you want to save him?

--edit-- looks like he's on Draxxin. Just one shot? Personally, I'd have him on a fast-acting antibiotic that could be repeated daily to better monitor his condition (ie Baytril, using the 3-day treatment plan).

 

[angie1]

call another vet

I pick this.
105 is too high.

 

[donnaIL]

105'F is a high temp. 103'F is the upper end of normal. Calfie definitely has problems... maybe pneumonia? hard to say. How badly do you want to save him?

I want to save him, we have a small herd so every calf counts...i've thought and told the vet I thought he had pneumonia from the beginning...I'll see if I can get some baytril. Thanks

 

[iowafarmer]

You could also try NuFlor and Excenel ask you vet about doses and what else you can use.

 

[larryshoat]

Donna sometimes ya don't win . Whatever happens I think you've given it your best shot . That being said it seems we've had good luck this spring with A180 .

Larry

 

[angie1]

Donna sometimes ya don't win . Whatever happens I think you've given it your best shot .
Larry

Dang striaght!
Hats off to you one way or the other.

 

[msscamp]

Question is do you think I should give him some milk replacer or just stick with the electrolite?

I would not give him milk replacer - it can do more harm than good in situations like this. I would have penned him and his mother so I could monitor whether he is actually nursing or not, and take the appropriate steps if he wasn't.

 

[donnaIL]

Question is do you think I should give him some milk replacer or just stick with the electrolite?

I would not give him milk replacer - it can do more harm than good in situations like this. I would have penned him and his mother so I could monitor whether he is actually nursing or not, and take the appropriate steps if he wasn't.

I have not given him milk replacer and I have monitored him nursing. The problem seems to be that he is weak, has a fever and so he lays around alot, thus does not nurse as often as he might if he felt well. When he nursed yesterday it looked funny because he was panting while he was nursing, it did not look effective. I have given him electrolytes because I think he is dehydrated. There is not problem with the cow she is by his side constantly encouraging him. We feed each day and that is the time that I am able to work him. She tends to be a protective mother and I really don't want to hassle dealing with her and him at same time.

 

[donnaIL]

Are you giving him antibiotics? banamine is only a pain-reliever/anti-inflammatory. Won't do a thing to get rid of what ever pathogen is causing problems.

105'F is a high temp. 103'F is the upper end of normal. Calfie definitely has problems... maybe pneumonia? hard to say. How badly do you want to save him?

--edit-- looks like he's on Draxxin. Just one shot? Personally, I'd have him on a fast-acting antibiotic that could be repeated daily to better monitor his condition (ie Baytril, using the 3-day treatment plan).

Called vet again yesterday am and started the 3-day baytril treatment yesterday evening. Calf still had 104 temp. The calf did not fight or get up when I tubed electrolytes, gave shot tooke temp etc. I also think it is weird that have not heard the calf moo once. To clarify why I am giving electrolytes is because I think the calf only gets up a couple times a day to nurse, has not made it to the water source, and I think he is dehydrated. I questioned giving milk because I thought that it might make him stronger. On Saturday he was walking around and acted like a normal calf, only to be sick again on Sunday, so I assume that lack of activity is due to fever vice milk (and I have not given any milk).

Going to check on him this morning. If the baytril works, how long before I will start to see results?

Thanks to everyone! I'm not giving up yet. donna