TxStateCowboy
Well-known member
thanks brandon, that was a neat article
Another Longhorn cow.....
- Thread starter Rustler9
- Start date
TxStateCowboy":gnzkenfz said:
TxStateCowboy,
What makes you think that mos registered longhorns aren't pure? You stated you have no proof. Do you not believe in improving your cattle? Do you not think that individuals who spend decades trying to develope their animals are unable to get what they desire in their cattle? It seems that if an individual posts a picture of animal that has a respectable body or horns that are shaped absolutely perfect you automatically declare they are not pure. Do you travel the country looking at animals from different environments and breeding programs? What about events, do you attend many, or any, sales or shows to get an actual view for yourself? Or do you just take what some traditionalist says and repeat it as your views? It seems that all your arguements are based on what someone else said or thought about something or someone, a long time ago. I am curious as how you come to your conclusions to what is a good, pure longhorn.
I know that I have seen many longhorns throughout my years in the business that you would think were "not pure." However, I believe that if a breeders spends years, and many generations striving for a certain type of animals, or for certain traits, that breeder can do so. If many breeders are working together i believe they can reach their goals even quicker. Longhorns are the most diverse breed in the industry and I think that declaring an animal is "watusi" just by looking at the shape of the horn is plain ignorant. Saying that the angle the horn makes it a different breed, or has to be influenced by another breed is ignorant, too. I have seen longhorns that have so many different shapes and angles of the horns that I don't think anything would surprise me, especially now that so much emphasis is being put on horn throughout the breed.
I think if you took the time to look harder throughout the breed in all registries that you would realize that a lot of time, effort, thought, money, and strategy has been put into the breeding of these animals. I think you are not nearly giving enough credit to the breeders who have dedicated themselves to improving all facets of the animals they love. I think instead of putting the breed and breeders down everytime they post a picture, you could some credit to the breeders for developing quality animals.
Ryan
googly_moogly
Well-known member
TxStateCowboy,
I'm kinda new around here so I don't know if anybody else has ever mentioned this or not. I have begun to see a trend that every time that someome posts a picture of a longhorn that is not 700 pound cows and looks like they are from the early 1900's (kinda like the ones you have) you claim they are impure. Where do you feel the need to go around ragging on everyone elses cattle? Have you ever heard of trying to improve something? They do it all the time in life with things such as automobiles, technology and yes even cattle. Do you think that Angus, Hereford etc... breeders want to keep their cattle the same as they were in the early 1900's? So my recomendation to you is unless you have factual evidence about the purity or impurity of a longhorn cow, shut up. The cattle you call impure are the ones that we modern day longhorn breeders like to call improved.
If you are happy with your cattle from the past then go ahead on and rasie them but don't get on here and say they are crossbred because that is just plain ignorant. So, next time you have a thought, realize that you are trying to keep cattle the same as they were around the turn of the century and we are raising cattle for today. You stay in the past and I'll head for the future.
Good Luck,
Googly Moogly
P.S. How long have you been raising Longorns.
I'm kinda new around here so I don't know if anybody else has ever mentioned this or not. I have begun to see a trend that every time that someome posts a picture of a longhorn that is not 700 pound cows and looks like they are from the early 1900's (kinda like the ones you have) you claim they are impure. Where do you feel the need to go around ragging on everyone elses cattle? Have you ever heard of trying to improve something? They do it all the time in life with things such as automobiles, technology and yes even cattle. Do you think that Angus, Hereford etc... breeders want to keep their cattle the same as they were in the early 1900's? So my recomendation to you is unless you have factual evidence about the purity or impurity of a longhorn cow, shut up. The cattle you call impure are the ones that we modern day longhorn breeders like to call improved.
If you are happy with your cattle from the past then go ahead on and rasie them but don't get on here and say they are crossbred because that is just plain ignorant. So, next time you have a thought, realize that you are trying to keep cattle the same as they were around the turn of the century and we are raising cattle for today. You stay in the past and I'll head for the future.
Good Luck,
Googly Moogly
P.S. How long have you been raising Longorns.
TxStateCowboy
Well-known member
First, it is not just plain ignorant, as it's pointing out an obvious truth- just look at some TLBAA magazines.
I don't believe in stopping progress, but the high point of the breed is that it was "formed by nature," and that's one of the only aspects of the breed that makes it worth a crap in todays industry, its ability to live in such an environment that others may have a hard time.
I'm not necissarily trying to keep the cattle "the same as they were back then" but I support the preservation of the qualities that the ones from "back then" had to offer; again the survival instincts.
Crossbreeding may improve cattle or a herd. Not a breed.
Go trying to control and improve something that nature built herself, you will lose in the long run. Understand it and use it towards its advantage points, now thats a different story.
And what do you have against my cattle? if you look at the pictures at the beginning can you tell me many differences in his and my white cow? I have crossbred cattle, I call them longhorns, and I don't care. But for the ones that I consider breeding, I want to make darn sure they are real, hardy, true-to-type longhorns that exhibit those pure qualities infused by nature. Those i consider "real texas longhorns". the rest i call longhorns but have every breed angus,brangus,herf,watus,char,limo crossed into them somewhere.
I don't care, they are economical working cattle. I have 80 head of cattle and i'm not yet 21 years old and i'm damn proud of my cattle regardless of breed, size of horn, price paid, or how much they bring compared to the neighbor's registered angus stock.
The reason I pick on people's longhorns is not because I want them to look like mine, (they do!), but because they probably paid a couple grand for something not worth $600.
When it comes to it, a longhorn is a beef animal; a small, lean, ground meat beef animal, but sure enough a beef animal that can take care of itself and live for 20 years.
Think about it, your animal can't hardly feed a family of 4, so why should it be worth $20,000. There is just something wrong with these "progressive" breeders calling themselves "cattleman."
To those longhorn breeders on this board- no direct offense i know nothing of your program- if so then tough not my problem.
I don't believe in stopping progress, but the high point of the breed is that it was "formed by nature," and that's one of the only aspects of the breed that makes it worth a crap in todays industry, its ability to live in such an environment that others may have a hard time.
I'm not necissarily trying to keep the cattle "the same as they were back then" but I support the preservation of the qualities that the ones from "back then" had to offer; again the survival instincts.
Crossbreeding may improve cattle or a herd. Not a breed.
Go trying to control and improve something that nature built herself, you will lose in the long run. Understand it and use it towards its advantage points, now thats a different story.
And what do you have against my cattle? if you look at the pictures at the beginning can you tell me many differences in his and my white cow? I have crossbred cattle, I call them longhorns, and I don't care. But for the ones that I consider breeding, I want to make darn sure they are real, hardy, true-to-type longhorns that exhibit those pure qualities infused by nature. Those i consider "real texas longhorns". the rest i call longhorns but have every breed angus,brangus,herf,watus,char,limo crossed into them somewhere.
I don't care, they are economical working cattle. I have 80 head of cattle and i'm not yet 21 years old and i'm damn proud of my cattle regardless of breed, size of horn, price paid, or how much they bring compared to the neighbor's registered angus stock.
The reason I pick on people's longhorns is not because I want them to look like mine, (they do!), but because they probably paid a couple grand for something not worth $600.
When it comes to it, a longhorn is a beef animal; a small, lean, ground meat beef animal, but sure enough a beef animal that can take care of itself and live for 20 years.
Think about it, your animal can't hardly feed a family of 4, so why should it be worth $20,000. There is just something wrong with these "progressive" breeders calling themselves "cattleman."
To those longhorn breeders on this board- no direct offense i know nothing of your program- if so then tough not my problem.
TxStateCowboy
Well-known member
the last was to googly.
for ryan:
ok i get it. the breeders have worked hard to progress their animals to the current state.
Who's honest, who isn't? TLBAA is not very strict on their registration, heck you can register through internet.
this leaves slack, and people take advantage of stuff like that.
A Splash of Color Longhorns - bull for sale...pure longhorn out of VJ tommie and Delta Lady Bug. Now that is funny...and sick.
for ryan:
ok i get it. the breeders have worked hard to progress their animals to the current state.
Who's honest, who isn't? TLBAA is not very strict on their registration, heck you can register through internet.
this leaves slack, and people take advantage of stuff like that.
A Splash of Color Longhorns - bull for sale...pure longhorn out of VJ tommie and Delta Lady Bug. Now that is funny...and sick.
TxStateCowboy":3ve15rma said:
No stock is worth "$20,000" if you are producing commercial calves to walk through the stockyard. However if a cow is desirable enough in her breed that people want to buy her calves for herd bulls, show prospects, and donor cows then obviously she is worth more as a donor producing 10-28 embryos a year than she would be producing one sale barn calf a year. It does not take too many $5,000 herd bulls to pay for a $20,000 donor cow. You or I probably would lose our shirts if we paid $20,000 for a cow of ANY breed; but you match the right cow with the right ranch with the right reputation with the right promotion and YES a cow CAN be worth $20,000 or MORE easily. Now identifying which cows in a breed are worth $20,000, which are worth $4000, and which are worth $2000 and which are worth LESS is NOT an exact science by a long shot. Some of the best cows in the breed may spend their lives virtually unnoticed and some who are heavily flushed, hyped, and promoted probably SHOULD have been sending one calf a year to the sale barn.
Running Arrow Bill
Well-known member
Just throwing my 2 cents worth in here...
"Longhorns" are considered "PureBRED" not "PureBLOOD". If a Longhorn is CROSSbred to another breed, then it is a "crossbred" animal (Longhorn X Other Breed). Longhorns didn't START out as "Longhorns" hundreds or thousands of years ago...they evolved that way.
I'm not a historian by any stretch of the imagination. However, unless I'm grossly misinformed, there are two "species" (genus?) of cattle: "Bos Taurus" and "Bos Indictus". May have only been one thousands of years ago that was cross-bred with "something". Every "breed" we have today is the result of many different cross-breedings throughout the ages.
Given this, if we go WAY BACK in history, I doubt that our so-called PURE Angus, Hereford, Holstein, etc., etc., are nothing more than cross-breeding over the many years. Guess we call this genetic evolution, or whatever. (Compare this with the many different "races" of people in the world today...the result of thousands of years of cross-breeding among humans).
Bottomline: Different "breeds" for different climates, different programs, different food availability, different end-uses, etc., that are found throughout the world.
"Longhorns" are considered "PureBRED" not "PureBLOOD". If a Longhorn is CROSSbred to another breed, then it is a "crossbred" animal (Longhorn X Other Breed). Longhorns didn't START out as "Longhorns" hundreds or thousands of years ago...they evolved that way.
I'm not a historian by any stretch of the imagination. However, unless I'm grossly misinformed, there are two "species" (genus?) of cattle: "Bos Taurus" and "Bos Indictus". May have only been one thousands of years ago that was cross-bred with "something". Every "breed" we have today is the result of many different cross-breedings throughout the ages.
Given this, if we go WAY BACK in history, I doubt that our so-called PURE Angus, Hereford, Holstein, etc., etc., are nothing more than cross-breeding over the many years. Guess we call this genetic evolution, or whatever. (Compare this with the many different "races" of people in the world today...the result of thousands of years of cross-breeding among humans).
Bottomline: Different "breeds" for different climates, different programs, different food availability, different end-uses, etc., that are found throughout the world.
A
Anonymous
Running Arrow Bill":2ixd9vrv said:
I dont know about the rest of the post about all cattle being crossbred at some time in history...because I sure wasn't around back then but just to clear it up...the species are tarus and indicus...the genus is Bos and I believe the (subgenera?) is Taurine...just to clear all that up :) ...and your post could be true...I dont know...but since I dont know the real answer...I still think my herefords are pure :D
googly_moogly
Well-known member
TxStateCowboy,
Still I see no factual evidence that supports your belief that all Longhorns are crossbred.
I have nothing against your cattle other than they are very common and I see the same type and kind sell every weekend for $700 bred and $850 for pairs. They will always be worth this at any Longhorn sale in the country. The reason they are worth this is because they are UNIMPROVED.
I don't care what you want to do or what you claim because I guarentee you that there are more people that believe the things I do than there are people that follow in your beliefs.
Googly Moogly
Still I see no factual evidence that supports your belief that all Longhorns are crossbred.
I have nothing against your cattle other than they are very common and I see the same type and kind sell every weekend for $700 bred and $850 for pairs. They will always be worth this at any Longhorn sale in the country. The reason they are worth this is because they are UNIMPROVED.
I don't care what you want to do or what you claim because I guarentee you that there are more people that believe the things I do than there are people that follow in your beliefs.
Googly Moogly
Noquisi
Member
who's she bred to
Bez?
Well-known member
Running Arrow Bill":c8y67urc said:
Interesting comment RAB.
Usually those who do the bad mouthing have never had one on the place.
It is my experience that running an LH on a bunch of heifers is a great way to have an easy calving season. Especially if you have a few of those LH bulls and over 300 heifers to calve out!
They were not my animals, but I calved them all - never had to pull one. Best commercial season I ever saw for calving and survival rates.
Took a hit at the barn because all calves went to the great pasture in the sky - but those heifers turned into decent cows after that first calf.
I would not hesitate to do it agin if I were in that situation.
Bez?
OP
OP
Rustler9
Well-known member
She's bred to our Whelming King grand son BT Heineken Dark. You can see him on our website: www.btfarms.net
Running Arrow Bill
Well-known member
Not bragging, just stating fact on our operation:
Our LH heifers are being bought between one month old and weaning age (for customer pick-up after weaning) starting at $1200 to $1500 and up, depending on conformation, color pattern, horn potential, and lineage. No way we could do that at a sale barn! Bull calves a little less $$.
Guess our reputation ain't too shabby, since about 75% of our sales are result of our website with customer's putting deposit on the calf without seeing it in person.
Our LH heifers are being bought between one month old and weaning age (for customer pick-up after weaning) starting at $1200 to $1500 and up, depending on conformation, color pattern, horn potential, and lineage. No way we could do that at a sale barn! Bull calves a little less $$.
Guess our reputation ain't too shabby, since about 75% of our sales are result of our website with customer's putting deposit on the calf without seeing it in person.
My dad had one that looked like that we called her Marshmallow, first calf had to be pulled my husband was the puller and that cow never forgot him. She would chase him when she did not have a calf on her. It is not real fun being chased by a big mean cow with big pokers.
