Another Hybrid Pearl millet Question

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SFFarms

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So this summer im looking for a summer project and have reading through some of the threads and wanna try some hybrid pearl millet. So im plan on no-till drilling it into existing fescue hay field. I want to use the Pennleaf version but really havent seen any others. So what are some tips? I plan on seeding it and then spreading about 50Ibs of nitrogen an acre and baling it for hay. One of main questions is will I have problems with fescue regrowing next year? I know their is alot of info already on here but i have alot of problems searching through past threads and dont want to miss something. I hope the panel of pearl millet experiments ive seen on here can give me some tips.

Thanks,
SFF
 

Angus Cowman

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From what I have been told it won't hurt your fescue stand (does anything)
as far as how good your millet will do I can't answer that I would worry about the fescue competeing with the millet when it is in the seedling stage(maybe)

maybe someone more qualified can answer these questions, i am still in the learning stages on the millet
 

Red Bull Breeder

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Millet is a warm season fescue is a cool season the fescue shouldn,t compete with the millet to bad. Drilled some yesterday in bermuda grass we will see what happens.
 
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SFFarms

SFFarms

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Thanks for the replys. We just got the first cutting of fescue off that field and i wanted try something new. I dont think it will hurt it but i didnt know.
 

redcowsrule33

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We are trying millet for the first time this year, too. We were planning on using our grain drill to plant, but is there a better way? If drilled should we pull the Brillion behind to firm up the seed bed or won't that make a difference? No one in our area has any experience with it (had to buy it online, all our seed dealers looked at me like I was asking to buy wacky-weed seed) so we could use all the input we can get. Thanks!
 

Steve Wilson

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Red,

Given a choice, I would opt for using the brillion before I drilled it. It is a very small seed, so sensative to planting depth. The corregations on the brillion will change the effective planting depth, won't it? Seeding depth recommendations vary from 1/4 inch to 1 inch max. I drill mine at 1/2 inch, in twice disked fields. The no till drill we rent has press wheels to firm the seedbed. Does yours? I have double disked, broadcast and drug with a flex tine harrow before with good success too.

My thoughts on firming are determined by how the ground lays. If rolling, I want it a little on the chunky side to limit the possibility of erosion. The drill will cut the clods in the seed rows and place the seed at the proper depth. If you have press wheels, so much the better but I seriously doubt a fluffy seedbed is going to effect germination very much. Given any amount of soil moisture when you plant and/or a decent shower afterwards and that stuff will be up in a matter of a few days. Once it is up, it doesn't take long for it to really start coming on. Especially if you keep picking up timely rains. With decent rainfall and 50 units of N per acre, you will be looking to do something with it soon. Graze when it gets above knee high, or mow for hay when you see it starts to approach your waist or you see the first few seed heads shoot up.
 

edrsimms

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SFFarms":3ooqv3u4 said:
So this summer im looking for a summer project and have reading through some of the threads and wanna try some hybrid pearl millet. So im plan on no-till drilling it into existing fescue hay field. I want to use the Pennleaf version but really havent seen any others. So what are some tips? I plan on seeding it and then spreading about 50Ibs of nitrogen an acre and baling it for hay. One of main questions is will I have problems with fescue regrowing next year? I know their is alot of info already on here but i have alot of problems searching through past threads and dont want to miss something. I hope the panel of pearl millet experiments ive seen on here can give me some tips.

Thanks,
SFF
I wouldnt no-till Millet into existing fescue sod especially on heavy land -- kill that durn Fescue and disk it under and plant some millet
like this:
smallerpicmil.jpg


This Tiff Leaf 3 Millet is on heavy land
 
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SFFarms

SFFarms

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I wouldnt no-till Millet into existing fescue sod especially on heavy land -- kill that durn Fescue and disk it under and plant some millet
like this:

I've heard that disking would help give me better results. But it's a little to late now. Bought the seed today (tifleaf 3) and I start tomorrow no-tilling. I mostly likely will fertlize Friday. As my main concern is im doing this in half my fescue hay field (main source of hay). I dont want to damage next springs fescue hay so thats why im hoping that no till will do less damage. Im pretty sure i would have re-growth and seeding issues if i disked it all. Anyway this will be a learning experience for me, maybe postive. Or i can learn from my mistakes. :cboy:

Thanks,
SFF
 

edrsimms

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Yeah -- I understand the learning processes situation. That’s how most of us learn, but it is also nice to talk with someone in your area that has already made the mistakes in the past and can save someone else a LIL TIME AND $$.
In plowed ground you have so many options:

CL = CLOVER / R= RYE / M = MILLET 1= MINIMAL; 2 = FAIR 3 = OK 4 = GOOD 5 = VERY GOOD

OCT 1/1 CL/R
NOV 2/3 CL/R
DEC 4/5 CL/R
JAN 3/5 CL/R
FEB 5/4 CL/R
MAR 5/3 CL/R
APR 5/1 CL/M
MAY 2/5 CL/M
JUN 0/5 CL/M
JUL 0/5 CL/M
AUG 0/5 CL/M
SEP 0/5 CL/M

In October, we have warm season grass dormancy but as cows calve we can meet nutritional requirements with good hay. Clover is short. Rye is short
In November, around Thanksgiving we have fair clover and good rye (we graze rye)
In December, we have good clover and very good rye. (we graze rye)
In January, we have ok Clover and very good Rye (due to potentially colder weather) (We graze rye)
In February, we have very good Clover and good Rye ( Late Feb Rye is getting stemmy and clover is awesome) We graze clover
In March, we have very good Clover and Rye is headed out and much less palatable. We graze clover
In April Clover is King, Millet just got planted on Tax day we graze Clover
In May Clover is going to seed and Millet is King We graze Millet
Summer (JUN, JULY, AUG) Millet is King
September-- Millet is done and we sell dove hunts to city dwellers for extra mad money and Bermuda pastures are brought in to the grazing scenario until first Frost---- OCT We graze Bermuda.
So, to make a long story short--- all our forages overlap one another so over a 12 month period our Nutrition is second to none.
Nutrition is the key to everything we want:

Soil Management > Awesome forages > Excellent Nutrition > Excellent Health> Reproductive Success = no cow on our place has over a 365 day calving interval for the last 10 years.
All done without the use of any permanent pasture
 

kenny thomas

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edrsimms, where are you located? It seems you have a very good plan but it does not match our growing season. Do you think it is cheaper in the long run not to have permanent pasture? Well evidentually you do or you would not be doing it. I am still learning the grazing side and have been planting several different things the last couple of years but with the drought in 2007-2008 nothing done well.
I would like to know how the millet does in the fescue. Keep us informed. Has anyone tried haybeans in fescue?
 

edrsimms

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kenny thomas":1elv1r4h said:
edrsimms, where are you located? It seems you have a very good plan but it does not match our growing season. Do you think it is cheaper in the long run not to have permanent pasture? Well evidentually you do or you would not be doing it. I am still learning the grazing side and have been planting several different things the last couple of years but with the drought in 2007-2008 nothing done well.
I would like to know how the millet does in the fescue. Keep us informed. Has anyone tried haybeans in fescue?

I haven't had any success with Millet planted no-till in Fescue-- especially on red clay land. (Northern VA)
It is cheaper to NOT have permanent pasture because

1. Fescue with the amount of N needed for "exceptional grass" still will not supply good enough Nutrition for cows+calves (maybe it will during spring flush), but that is it for a 12 month period and is not good enough for a "permanent pasture".

2. It doesnt matter how much N fertilizer you apply to Fescue as you are only going to get 50- 55 % TDN, which means that for every 1 lb of fescue a cow eats only half of it is digestible. You wont make a single dollar fertilizing fescue. So, why have permanent pasture?
Fescue does terrible things to cows like: calcified uterus, lower extremity blood circulation problems (loss of tails), Pink eye just to name a few......... Fescue is evil (have you ever tasted any grass fed beef coming off Fescue?

Example:
If a cow weighs 1200 lbs she will eat ~3% of something (fescue in this case) of her total body weight per day.
1200 lb cow x 3% = 36 lbs total. If fescue has CP and TDN of 10 and 50 (fresh) this is the facts: 36 x 0.50 x 0.10 = 1.8 lbs of Total Protein(TP) is all she is gonna get. All the protein she does get will go to milk production and she will lose weight and possibly not re-breed.
If she calved in March (early- Spring in SW VA) and during peak milk production (month 2 post-calving = May) Past Spring flush and her highest nutrtional requirement all yearand breeding season (and for a 1200 lb cow with medium milk production her requirement is 2.6 lbs of TP/ day) you are supplying 1.8

3. You need some tillable land then plant your millet or a millet/soybean mix is good too. It is cheaper in the long run because you have higher quality forage than Fescue; It takes less fertilizer to grow Millet; Yeild per acre is so much higher in Millet vs Fescue; and Feed value is MUCH higher than Fescue (Millet has a 17 to 21 % Crude Protein with 70+ % TDN) Fescue isnt even close.

One thing that does work quite well if your land isn't suitable for tillage is Orchard Grass mixed with Clover. The Clover we use here puts about 80 to 100 lbs of N per Acre per year>>> which feeds what permanent pastures we still have around here.

I guarantee that you are planting Millet No-till behind permanent pastures that have been grazed off after Spring Flush-- Your land is compacted like a red brick and without some kind of disturbance (TILLAGE), the chances of your Millet even coming up is slim.

We use permanent pastures as lounging areas only and for cows to sit out the summer post-weaning.
 

kenny thomas

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Interesting post, I will have to study on it a while. I have very little clay. You are correct that orchard grass and clover works very well. Out of about 600 acres about 500 is non tillable hilly or rocky so I am looking for options. Crabgrass is coming now and they do very good on it.
 

edrsimms

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kenny thomas":yfxw9kqz said:
Interesting post, I will have to study on it a while. I have very little clay. You are correct that orchard grass and clover works very well. Out of about 600 acres about 500 is non tillable hilly or rocky so I am looking for options. Crabgrass is coming now and they do very good on it.

Well, If you have 100 acres that can be tilled -- there is your answer.

Ya know these scientist types have done every experiment on a cow there is -- enough to know that a cow will consume 3.5 lbs of forage an hour.

If a 1300 lb cow is nursing a calf that is 2-3 Months (Peak Milk) and her total protein requirement is 2.50 these are the numbers:
1300 x 2.8% = ~ 36 lbs total per day of something.
Summer
Feed Values
Millet = 20 % CP x 70 % TDN = 0.140
Crabgrass = 12 % CP x 55 % TDN = 0.066
Fescue = 8 % CP x 50 % TDN = 0.040 (summer)

Millet Limit grazed 5 hours per day = 3.5 x 5 = 18 x 0.140 = 2.52 TP. Done
Grazing Crabgrass all day = 36 x .066 = 2.37 TP (she can't do it)
Grazing Fescue cured on the stem 36 x 0.040 = 1.44 TP (not even close)

For February calvers:
Normally, we can graze 8 cow/calf pairs per acre in June on Millet (this is limit grazed where we only allow them to graze it for 5 hrs).

For October calvers: (weaned calves in May) TP requirement of 1.6
3-4 hours per day depending on BCS post weaning
 

edrsimms

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jedstivers":38ngn6hb said:
Is there any difference in seed size of Pearl and Tiffleaf?
no,
Another good thing about Millet is it really brings in the Dove. We pull cows off out millet every September and sell Dove Hunts $50 a person (they reach their limit in 30 minutes) you can easily make $2500 a day during dove season becuz dove fanatics will pay 50 dollars for 30 minutes of shootem up fun----- anytime...........

1 day (approximately 1 hour) of dove hunting will pay for seed and fertilizer on 25 acres of Millet
 

jedstivers

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edrsimms":226n7cle said:
jedstivers":226n7cle said:
Is there any difference in seed size of Pearl and Tiffleaf?
no,
Another good thing about Millet is it really brings in the Dove. We pull cows off out millet every September and sell Dove Hunts $50 a person (they reach their limit in 30 minutes) you can easily make $2500 a day during dove season becuz dove fanatics will pay 50 dollars for 30 minutes of shootem up fun----- anytime...........

1 day (approximately 1 hour) of dove hunting will pay for seed and fertilizer on 25 acres of Millet
Thanks ed, How long will it take for Pearl to head and mature? last years dove field has wheat on it and I thought about no-tilling into it or doing strips of millet (field is full of doves now in the wheat & would like to keep them till season opens)? Don't know if I have enough time now. Thanks
 

Steve Wilson

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A couple weeks ago, somebody here was talking about a couple different Tiffleaf millets. But I can't find the thread right now. Anyway, a guy was saying that Tiffleaf 3 didn't produce many seeds and recommended a different one to a fellow that was wanting to raise some for dove hunting. Last year, our hybrid pearl millet was tagged "variety not stated" and it only had some ripening seedheads on it when we turned the calves in on it for the last time. There sure weren't very many seeds in the heads though. Maybe they just weren't ripe enough to be far enough along. Don't know.
 

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