Annual Cost per Cow

[Midtenn]

Can you give me an example of what you think would be an investment?

Something that is paying me dividends while gaining without cost. That I can liquidate today for train ticket cash.
Every thing else is a liability requiring upkeep.

https://www.morningstar.com/funds/XNAS/AMECX/betaquote.html

Investment : noun , the action or process of investing money for material profit or result

We dont agree on land investment but it sounds like everyone on here is willing to count taxes in the cow cost. So lets get back on subject of annual cow cost.

 

[TexasBred]

Can you give me an example of what you think would be an investment?

Something that is paying me dividends while gaining without cost. That I can liquidate today for train ticket cash.
Every thing else is a liability requiring upkeep.

https://www.morningstar.com/funds/XNAS/AMECX/betaquote.html

You really think that's your money?? If it's tax deferred fail to pay the taxes on it when it's withdrawn by you or your heirs. Your neighbors will laugh at your lack of financial genius. Oh and don't forget to figure inflation into that yield. Investing has unseen expenses. Of course it's not real expense is it CB?? Is it 2019 dollars or 1995 dollars. Start Googling.

 

[TexasBred]

Blackstone, a major private equity fund owns property around the U.S. far and wide, purchased in foreclosure. The people who lost their properties are now the same ones renting them back. Sheer insanity for the renter, sheer genius for Blackstone.

If you love big money, and Wall Street, you will be amazed at how they are transforming real estate in America. The screwing has only just begun.

There is going to be some "swamp draining" and it's going to be for the purpose of condemnation lawsuits and seizing property. Just think about how that term "SEIZE" sounds! The very people that think they have friends in D.C. will find that money is thicker than blood. If you think the 2008 real estate crash was impressive, then what's coming will make that look like a trailer to the real movie.

Here is just a taste of what's to come. My advice, hold onto what you have with a tight grip. Be smart folks, and saavy, because this is capitalism at it's finest hour, and Wall Street is going to look like a T-Rex in the movie Jurassic Park when the recession hits.

https://theintercept.com/2018/10/12/prop-10-california-rent-control-wall-street/

Call it screwing if you want, but it's 100% legal and encouraged. Banks really do not want to be in the real estate business and legally cannot bid on property at foreclosure other than making the opening bid. People should pay their bills they said they would pay when they were loaned the money.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Blackstone, a major private equity fund owns property around the U.S. far and wide, purchased in foreclosure. The people who lost their properties are now the same ones renting them back. Sheer insanity for the renter, sheer genius for Blackstone.

If you love big money, and Wall Street, you will be amazed at how they are transforming real estate in America. The screwing has only just begun.

There is going to be some "swamp draining" and it's going to be for the purpose of condemnation lawsuits and seizing property. Just think about how that term "SEIZE" sounds! The very people that think they have friends in D.C. will find that money is thicker than blood. If you think the 2008 real estate crash was impressive, then what's coming will make that look like a trailer to the real movie.

Here is just a taste of what's to come. My advice, hold onto what you have with a tight grip. Be smart folks, and saavy, because this is capitalism at it's finest hour, and Wall Street is going to look like a T-Rex in the movie Jurassic Park when the recession hits.

https://theintercept.com/2018/10/12/prop-10-california-rent-control-wall-street/

Call it screwing if you want, but it's 100% legal and encouraged. Banks really do not want to be in the real estate business and legally cannot bid on property at foreclosure other than making the opening bid. People should pay their bills they said they would pay when they were loaned the money.

I agree, people should not sign up for subprime loans but they love them, and lenders love making those loans, and the interest rates are tantalizing for Wall Street Bankers who collateralize those loans.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Blackstone, a major private equity fund owns property around the U.S. far and wide, purchased in foreclosure. The people who lost their properties are now the same ones renting them back. Sheer insanity for the renter, sheer genius for Blackstone.

If you love big money, and Wall Street, you will be amazed at how they are transforming real estate in America. The screwing has only just begun.

There is going to be some "swamp draining" and it's going to be for the purpose of condemnation lawsuits and seizing property. Just think about how that term "SEIZE" sounds! The very people that think they have friends in D.C. will find that money is thicker than blood. If you think the 2008 real estate crash was impressive, then what's coming will make that look like a trailer to the real movie.

Here is just a taste of what's to come. My advice, hold onto what you have with a tight grip. Be smart folks, and saavy, because this is capitalism at it's finest hour, and Wall Street is going to look like a T-Rex in the movie Jurassic Park when the recession hits.

https://theintercept.com/2018/10/12/prop-10-california-rent-control-wall-street/

Call it screwing if you want, but it's 100% legal and encouraged. Banks really do not want to be in the real estate business and legally cannot bid on property at foreclosure other than making the opening bid. People should pay their bills they said they would pay when they were loaned the money.

I agree, people should not sign up for subprime loans but they love them, and lenders love making those loans, and the interest rates are tantalizing for Wall Street Bankers who collateralize those loans.

Subprime loans scarcely exist these days. A few non QM (qualified mortgage) programs have come out in the past few years but we're miles away from all the options we had in the early to mid 2000's.

 

[gcreekrch]

Rough and dirty, $600 per year in CAD.

That does not include depreciation or the other things we do to avoid too much income tax.

 

[midTN_Brangusman]

Thought I would give this post a bump, maybe some didn't see it and wish to share there :2cents: .

 

[polledbull]

lots of veriables in it , we have alot of cattle on hog farms in eastern NC so we have grass, and fertilizer as a consiquence of the hog farm, so we convert hog waste to grass to beef, I figure I can carry a cow as cheap as it can be done , it still is expensive ,

 

[MDickinson]

Registered herd numbers modified to fit commercial herd 655 head.

On grass year round no supplement except mineral/protein through winter 15 acres/pair/year vs typical 10 acres/pair/year if fed in the winter in our area.

New machinery payment would essentially offset repairs expense if wanted.
Breeding expenses would be offset by bull purchases in a commercial application.
10% open rate with cows being sold at time of preg check.
10% heifers retained to maintain herd numbers
45 day background before calves are shipped $1.66/day feed/yardage
no labor expenses added

average cost/cow $677.28
Average cost/(calf+opens) marketed $751.90

I'm sure there are misc expenses I am missing, but this covers the bulk of the operation. There are also expenses that aren't incurred every year like rural water, but in dry years we have to rely on it as our wells are not reliable enough to support the cattle.

 

[midTN_Brangusman]

Registered herd numbers modified to fit commercial herd 655 head.

On grass year round no supplement except mineral/protein through winter 15 acres/pair/year vs typical 10 acres/pair/year if fed in the winter in our area.

New machinery payment would essentially offset repairs expense if wanted.
Breeding expenses would be offset by bull purchases in a commercial application.
10% open rate with cows being sold at time of preg check.
10% heifers retained to maintain herd numbers
45 day background before calves are shipped $1.66/day feed/yardage
no labor expenses added

average cost/cow $677.28
Average cost/(calf+opens) marketed $751.90

I'm sure there are misc expenses I am missing, but this covers the bulk of the operation. There are also expenses that aren't incurred every year like rural water, but in dry years we have to rely on it as our wells are not reliable enough to support the cattle.

Just curious where you are located to run a pair per 15 acres.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I would guess Middle TN. LOL
Here's an article comparing past 25 years. Sure keeps rising!!!
https://www.beefmagazine.com/cow-calf/what-s-your-cost-keep-cow

 

[MDickinson]

West edge of central Kansas. Average around 20 inches of rain on a good year.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Land and cattle guys need to charge the cows pasture rent, and charge weaned calves back grounding yardage, even if they own the land and the lot.
Minnesota FInPak bean counters add up a whole page of numbers to come up with cost per calf weaned. Not my favorite measure. The value of cost per cow is even less. A sterile Dexter could be the low cost cow leader.
Need to get to per acre eventually unless you are running a dry lot operation.

 

[Caustic Burno]

$452.60 per cow this year. That's $1.24 per head per day. The lowest I have ever carved it down to. Not sure where else I can trim inputs.
Reevaluating areas to improve profitability; breed of cow, maximizing profit per acre, etc.

You have me beat by a quarter. At today's prices I will revaluate staying in after 47 years this spring.

 

[MDickinson]

Land and cattle guys need to charge the cows pasture rent, and charge weaned calves back grounding yardage, even if they own the land and the lot.
Minnesota FInPak bean counters add up a whole page of numbers to come up with cost per calf weaned. Not my favorite measure. The value of cost per cow is even less. A sterile Dexter could be the low cost cow leader.
Need to get to per acre eventually unless you are running a dry lot operation.

Mine does charge grass rent even on land owned. I do not however charge yardage for the 45 day background period, but do charge for loader and spreader work on the lots. I also figure cost per calf weaned as well as cost per cow. I'm not a fan of per acre calculations unless you don't utilize rented ground at all.

 

[1982vett]

$452.60 per cow this year. That's $1.24 per head per day. The lowest I have ever carved it down to. Not sure where else I can trim inputs.
Reevaluating areas to improve profitability; breed of cow, maximizing profit per acre, etc.

You have me beat by a quarter. At today's prices I will revaluate staying in after 47 years this spring.

Been running some numbers to see what taxes are going to look like this year. The average $$ per head for calves sold was only $46 lower than last year. Calves musta sold a lot better earlier in the year than I remember. Don't know how that relates to lbs sold. Haven't looked at things that close.

Could easily make red ink run.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Breaking out different exterprizes can get complicated. Ideally you would have numbers per field or paddock. A way to start this is by recording cow days each time you move the herd. More realisticly you may have numbers by farm.

A common management situation with current commodity prices is that lower productivity fields or paddocks do not cash flow. Per acre numbers allow you to compare improvement options. Some crop fields could be converted to pasture. Some pastures could be inter seeded. Some pastures could be converted from cows to yearlings. Some rental properties could be let go...

It is difficult to save your way to prosperity.

 

[greggy]

I'm at $325-350 a head to get a calf to weaning size. That's figuring feed, mineral, pasture spraying, fuel, and vaccines/meds. I own the land and figure it in as an investment and have a hard time figuring all the equipment in towards the cow. Cows don't need to be fed out of a $65,000 tractor or carried to town in a $75,000 dually pulling a $15,000 cattle trailer. That's just stuff people want.

I stick mine in with others that have had disease, so they get a quick reaction and build resistance.

While that is going on, I set them a meeting date.

On meet day, I give them a stern talking too, show them how to use google maps, tell them all to follow the leader, whom is issued with a20 dollar smart phone with downloaded directions, and they all must follow that leader to the sales barn as you call it, I use the google walk route option, and make sure it does not pass green pastures

I am not sure yet that I have met anyone, whether doing sheep, cattle or feed, that does all the maths

 

[greggy]

Can you give me an example of what you think would be an investment?

I am not "you", but...

Investment rental property that returns way more than all outgoings...or companies that are being run well and returning way more than outgoings....

Cattle ? unlikely unless you get land for free, and feed for free, even then......

It is an investment if you buy from Bob the broke farmer today at 100 bucks a head, and sell too Fred, the new to the land mid age yuppie for 500 a head, a few days later, not months or years

 

[1982vett]

. Ouch...