Annual Cost per Cow

[Caustic Burno]

Can you give me an example of what you think would be an investment?

Something that is paying me dividends while gaining without cost. That I can liquidate today for train ticket cash.
Every thing else is a liability requiring upkeep.

https://www.morningstar.com/funds/XNAS/AMECX/betaquote.html

 

[Caustic Burno]

I'm at $325-350 a head to get a calf to weaning size. That's figuring feed, mineral, pasture spraying, fuel, and vaccines/meds. I own the land and figure it in as an investment and have a hard time figuring all the equipment in towards the cow. Cows don't need to be fed out of a $65,000 tractor or carried to town in a $75,000 dually pulling a $15,000 cattle trailer. That's just stuff people want.

So you spent 350 to get a weaned calf, the dam and bulls didn't have cost the rest of the year?
You have no taxes on your paid off place? Mine sure does, that's my second largest expense. That really should be called rent as we do not own the land.
If you don't believe that quit paying the taxes.

Hello there sunshine always look forward to hearing your bright and shiny opinion on things. If you don't think I own this land let me catch you on it, we'll probably just have a beer but whatever. Just because you don't make money on the cattle doesn't mean it's not possible. I suppose you think poking .75 cents a day in a yearling is a waste too?

Pull your head out of the sand.
If you really think you own that land stop paying the taxes, your neighbors will appreciate it when it's auctioned off.

 

[Lucky]

So you spent 350 to get a weaned calf, the dam and bulls didn't have cost the rest of the year?
You have no taxes on your paid off place? Mine sure does, that's my second largest expense. That really should be called rent as we do not own the land.
If you don't believe that quit paying the taxes.

Hello there sunshine always look forward to hearing your bright and shiny opinion on things. If you don't think I own this land let me catch you on it, we'll probably just have a beer but whatever. Just because you don't make money on the cattle doesn't mean it's not possible. I suppose you think poking .75 cents a day in a yearling is a waste too?

Pull your head out of the sand.
If you really think you own that land stop paying the taxes, your neighbors will appreciate it when it's auctioned off.

Gloom and Doom all the time? C'mon now it's not that bad. I'm not going to argue with you on who owns this land, truth be known it belongs to all the critters that were here long before you or me. I redid my math again. Came up to around $336 to get a calf to weaning size. I'm gonna add another $60 just for fluff and call it $400, that's allot of fluff though.

The money lost in cattle is in open cows and calves that don't make it to sale. Our job is to do our very best to keep cost down while maintaining herd health so cows can breed back and have a chance to do their job. One way to keep cost down is investing money in things that make life simpler while saving money. Can't stand feed sacks for example, did you know those things cost 75 cents!! My gosh what a waste I feed around 70 tons a year that's $2,100 in sacks. Anyway it's late have a good night partner.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Has nothing to do with gloom and doom but reality.

Again if you really believe you own that land stop paying the taxes on it.
I understand why your scared, it has never hit you that your a renter.
Bet you kinda looked like you were hit in the face with a wet possum when you realize you really don't own it.
Land is the only possession the government will literally boot you and yours out of the house for non payment. Miss a year of taxes and just watch the loan shark interest rates applied to the land you own.
I see it auctioned off every year for nonpayment on taxes.

 

[Lucky]

Has nothing to do with gloom and doom but reality.

Again if you really believe you own that land stop paying the taxes on it.
I understand why your scared, it has never hit you that your a renter.
Bet you kinda looked like you were hit in the face with a wet possum when you realize you really don't own it.
Land is the only possession the government will literally boot you and yours out of the house for non payment. Miss a year of taxes and just watch the loan shark interest rates applied to the land you own.
I see it auctioned off every year for nonpayment on taxes.

Gee wiz CB can't we agree to disagree on this? I'm an American and in America we pay taxes. We could have a debate about why we pay them and were they go but it would get us nowhere. If you had a bad experience with taxes at some point I hate it for you but why you keep bringing it up I don't understand. I also don't understand why you think land is a money pit and a not an investment but I don't harp on you about it. Anyone can cash out at anytime send cattle to the sale, call an auctioneer, and sell the spread it's easy to get paid. I'm not married to any of this stuff and everything is for sale it's just not on sale. Hopefully we can get back to talking about raising cattle again, afterall that is what this thread was about. If it makes you feel better my land taxes add roughly $30 a head to the total. I took the house out since I live in it and don't let cows in. Sometimes when it thunders the wife lets the sorry cow dog in so maybe I'll pay the taxes out of the cattle account.

I looked at new feed trucks $55,000 for a brand new one with a hay bed and a feeder. Think if let the cows pay for it over 10 yrs it'd be a bad deal? That's only $5,500 a year. Probably wouldn't last though and my old one is just fine with me. Wonder what the taxes are on a $55,000 feed truck? Who buys those things anyway?

 

[ddd75]

it takes at least 5 years to foreclose on a property based on taxes owed.

 

[Caustic Burno]

it takes at least 5 years to foreclose on a property based on taxes owed.

Makes my point you don't own your land. If you own it no one should be able to foreclose on it.

 

[Bright Raven]

CB and Lucky:

Reading your posts, you guys are having a debate on "semantics".

When someone holds an unencumbered deed to property in this case land. The generally accepted reference to that land is that "it is owned by the deed holder". I think that is commonly accepted.

The concept that CB is stating is that no one "in practice" owns land if they are taxed on it and the failure to pay those taxes can lead to foreclosure.

 

[Bright Raven]

In Kentucky, they can not have a Tax Sale of a primary residence and the property on the deed that goes with the primary residence.

For example, I reside in a house on my 80 acre farm. According to what I understand, they cannot take it for failure to pay my annual property taxes. Here is the scenario:

If I stop paying property tax, the county refers my land over to a contract attorney for forfeiture and public auction on the Courthouse steps in a Tax Sale. I can stop the process by declaring my property my "sole and only primary residence".

That stops any further confiscation proceedings. However, an annual lien will be placed against my property to be collected after my death, the sale of the property, or moving to another place of primary residence such as a nursing home.

 

[Bigfoot]

In Kentucky, they can not have a Tax Sale of a primary residence and the property on the deed that goes with the primary residence.

For example, I reside in a house on my 80 acre farm. According to what I understand, they cannot take it for failure to pay my annual property taxes. Here is the scenario:

If I stop paying property tax, the county refers my land over to a contract attorney for forfeiture and public auction on the Courthouse steps in a Tax Sale. I can stop the process by declaring my property my "sole and only primary residence".

That stops any further confiscation proceedings. However, an annual lien will be placed against my property to be collected after my death, the sale of the property, or moving to another place of primary residence such as a nursing home.

I have heard my whole life, that if someone pays your property taxes for 7 years uncontested, the property is theirs. I don't know that is true. I do know we have a couple of people in our county, that pay a whole bunch of peoples taxes, when they are late. You then owe the money to them, with a bunch of interst.

 

[Silver]

I guess none of us owns anything. Try not paying any income tax for awhile and you'll find they can start selling everything you thought you owned until your debt is settled. And if that doesn't settle it they will garnishee your future income.

 

[Bright Raven]

In Kentucky, they can not have a Tax Sale of a primary residence and the property on the deed that goes with the primary residence.

For example, I reside in a house on my 80 acre farm. According to what I understand, they cannot take it for failure to pay my annual property taxes. Here is the scenario:

If I stop paying property tax, the county refers my land over to a contract attorney for forfeiture and public auction on the Courthouse steps in a Tax Sale. I can stop the process by declaring my property my "sole and only primary residence".

That stops any further confiscation proceedings. However, an annual lien will be placed against my property to be collected after my death, the sale of the property, or moving to another place of primary residence such as a nursing home.

I have heard my whole life, that if someone pays your property taxes for 7 years uncontested, the property is theirs. I don't know that is true. I do know we have a couple of people in our county, that pay a whole bunch of peoples taxes, when they are late. You then owe the money to them, with a bunch of interst.

The county has the option on how to handle delinquent property taxes. In Robertson county, the county sells the rights to "collection" on delinquent property taxes to the highest bidder. Always a law firm. Then the law firm conducts the proceedings at no cost to Robertson County. They get to feast on what they make but they must abide in Kentucky statute. Thus, no one here gets the opportunity to pay someone's delinquent property tax.

About 5 years ago, as the state legislature became more and more conservative, there was talk (my brother was County Judge Executive of Pendleton County so got this from him) that a bill was going to be pursued to greatly curtail forecloses. The counties screamed bloody murder.

 

[Lucky]

Several years ago the man down the road moved and left his place vacant, it wasn't much 5 acres a barn and old house. He called me out of the blue one day and ask if I'd buy it from him and said he wasn't moving back to the area. I told him I'd take it. At closing 2/3rds of his money went to back taxes. This really surprised me as he hadn't said anything about it. Judging by what his tax bill was I'd say he hadn't paid them in 5 yrs or more. I believe BR is correct they cannot kick you out of your home. Texas has a 200 acre homestead law. As Bigfoot says we have the 7 yr law here also but it's shady on how it works. I own about 2 acres that shows to belong to my neighbor on one map and to not even be there on another map. My neighbor says it's always gone with this place and county says it's always been taxed to my place so it's mine.

 

[Caustic Burno]

That is partially true on 200 acres being a homestead in Texas.
Texas places no valuation limits only acreage.
That only applies to a rural family homestead.
If your single it falls to 100 acres if ruled urban it falls to 10 acres.

The urban ruling is the fly in the ontiment.

Ten years ago you couldn't see another light off my front porch at night.
Today you can see five nightlights at 250k plus homes. My rural has turned urban in ten years.
I won't squirrel hunt with a 22 anymore for fear of where the bullet drops.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I guess none of us owns anything. Try not paying any income tax for awhile and you'll find they can start selling everything you thought you owned until your debt is settled. And if that doesn't settle it they will garnishee your future income.

+1
Just think most Americans have 500 dollars or less in savings.
The financial management philosophy over the last 50 years has drastically changed.
"The Texas Property Code protects your homestead from a forced sale to satisfy creditors such as payday lenders and debt collectors. However, your homestead is NOT protected from foreclosure for certain debts, including: unpaid property taxes; ... unpaid federal income taxes (IRS liens);"

 

[CattleMan1920]

Blackstone, a major private equity fund owns property around the U.S. far and wide, purchased in foreclosure. The people who lost their properties are now the same ones renting them back. Sheer insanity for the renter, sheer genius for Blackstone.

If you love big money, and Wall Street, you will be amazed at how they are transforming real estate in America. The screwing has only just begun.

There is going to be some "swamp draining" and it's going to be for the purpose of condemnation lawsuits and seizing property. Just think about how that term "SEIZE" sounds! The very people that think they have friends in D.C. will find that money is thicker than blood. If you think the 2008 real estate crash was impressive, then what's coming will make that look like a trailer to the real movie.

Here is just a taste of what's to come. My advice, hold onto what you have with a tight grip. Be smart folks, and saavy, because this is capitalism at it's finest hour, and Wall Street is going to look like a T-Rex in the movie Jurassic Park when the recession hits.

https://theintercept.com/2018/10/12/prop-10-california-rent-control-wall-street/

 

[Lucky]

Has nothing to do with gloom and doom but reality.

Again if you really believe you own that land stop paying the taxes on it.
I understand why your scared, it has never hit you that your a renter.
Bet you kinda looked like you were hit in the face with a wet possum when you realize you really don't own it.
Land is the only possession the government will literally boot you and yours out of the house for non payment. Miss a year of taxes and just watch the loan shark interest rates applied to the land you own.
I see it auctioned off every year for nonpayment on taxes.

.

Well gosh dangit CB I went and paid my property taxes today. I know it's the last day but I try to make them wait. If I leave the house out I'm at $10 a head in property taxes. I own or as you say "rent from the state" all the land I run cattle on. I was actually surprised I thought the taxes were more. I should keep up with that stuff better but rather than focus on things I can't change I choose to focus on things I can change and make better.
While we're on cost of cattle I've got a serious question for you. Several years ago I had a 500 acre lease place about 15 miles from my house. After about 1.5 years I wore the frontend out on my pickup checking cattle on that rough place. It also had several really big creeks so I spent allot of time driving around county roads to check cows. I decided to buy an ATV to keep over there and ended up giving $7,000 for a new one. Just by chance we had a really bad winter that year but I was able to save probably 8-10 calves that would have otherwise died if I hadn't had the ATV. The way I see it the ATV paid for itself that winter. How would you look at that scenario? I'm still using the ATV not very often but used it today to Dr a couple calves.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Mine is higher closer to 30 dollars a head. I downsized by 70% in the 11 drought. I was already heading in that direction due to health issues. The drought just sped up the process.
Other inputs were greatly reduced hay,fertilizer, supplement feed along with maintenance cost.
Selling out the hay equipment as well a tractor reduced a lot of time and money.
I had went past the sweet spot years ago, my profit margins would have been better operating at 60% stocking rate.
Running at 60% I could stand the weather extremes much better.
I had always kept a years worth of hay in reserve that wasn't enough in 11.
I had to look at the destruction of the pasture and future health .
I am a grass farmer converting it to cash with a bovine.

 

[Lucky]

I'm with you on the droughts. '11 was bad but I scraped by and actually was able to salvage the season with a calf crop off a group of cows that I just decided to let survive on what they could find. This past summer put me to the test though. It's going to take years to recover. Both grass and $$ wise. Oh well it's what we do I guess just take the good with the bad.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Blackstone, a major private equity fund owns property around the U.S. far and wide, purchased in foreclosure. The people who lost their properties are now the same ones renting them back. Sheer insanity for the renter, sheer genius for Blackstone.

If you love big money, and Wall Street, you will be amazed at how they are transforming real estate in America. The screwing has only just begun.

There is going to be some "swamp draining" and it's going to be for the purpose of condemnation lawsuits and seizing property. Just think about how that term "SEIZE" sounds! The very people that think they have friends in D.C. will find that money is thicker than blood. If you think the 2008 real estate crash was impressive, then what's coming will make that look like a trailer to the real movie.

Here is just a taste of what's to come. My advice, hold onto what you have with a tight grip. Be smart folks, and saavy, because this is capitalism at it's finest hour, and Wall Street is going to look like a T-Rex in the movie Jurassic Park when the recession hits.

https://theintercept.com/2018/10/12/prop-10-california-rent-control-wall-street/

You have to be ever vigilant.
Several years ago people started showing up to mom and dads old place.
I converted it to my man cave.
It adjourns my property , they said it was up for auction for delinquent taxes.
I had all the paid tax receipts back into the 1950's. Some yahoo at the tax office put the wrong tract up for auction. When I went to the tax office with the receipts, they told me there was nothing they could do. Some law firm out of Houston was handling the sale.
I had to hire a lawyer to file an injunction to stop the auction and sale.
Needless to say the county didn't reimburse me one penny.

I have no clue how nasty that would have gotten had they actually auctioned it off.