Animal Rights Initiatives A Little Scary

[auctionboy]

The restrictions on sow crates and veal calves create legal precedents.

Is it ok to allow sows and veal calves to be kept in these conditions to protect yourself from the POSSIBILITY of someday being in the "crosshairs"? You cannot predict the future. Maybe they eventually look at the beef industry, maybe not. That possibility cannot reasonably be used as an excuse to allow abuse.

How this country is and how nobody seems to care about anythink but themselves I could see a lot of people turning there head at how some guy treats his sows or veal if down the road it could effect there lively hood and way of life. I can't emagine beef cow/calf operaters being in the crosshairs, but who knows with those people.

 

[ChrisB]

Beef producers will definitely be in the crosshairs. There is already grumbling about how farmers and ranchers inhumanely dock tails on lambs, and how they castrate and dehorn calves without the use of anesthesia. Eventually they will be telling people how evil it is that cows are outside in the rain and have no A/C when it's hot. PETA has an agenda, and they realize they need to take small steps in order to reach their ultimate goal which is no livestock production period.

 

[dun]

Beef producers will definitely be in the crosshairs. There is already grumbling about how farmers and ranchers inhumanely dock tails on lambs, and how they castrate and dehorn calves without the use of anesthesia. Eventually they will be telling people how evil it is that cows are outside in the rain and have no A/C when it's hot. PETA has an agenda, and they realize they need to take small steps in order to reach their ultimate goal which is no livestock production period.

Sounds a lot like the gun control agenda doesn;t it?

dun

 

[VanC]

PETA has an agenda, and they realize they need to take small steps in order to reach their ultimate goal which is no livestock production period.

This statement is right on the money. With a major university a few miles away, we have quite a few PETA types around here. While most of them are smart enough to know that blowing things up or releasing animals into the wild puts them in a bad light, they aren't shy about what their ultimate goals are. They seek to raise the cost of production so high that producers will either go out of business or be forced to pass those costs on to the public, which in turn will reduce consumption. The statement has been made that the public is willing to pay more for products that have been raised "humanely." This may be true up to a point, but I guarantee you if hamburger went to $10 or $20 a pound, people would stop buying it. This is the ultimate goal.

 

[dun]

I guarantee you if hamburger went to $10 or $20 a pound, people would stop buying it. This is the ultimate goal.

Then instead of cows grazing the pasutres we've have peta grazing them

dun

 

[KMacGinley]

I guess I have a little more faith in the common sense of the American people than you guys. Peta is a fly buzzing around, but you guys fall right in with Big agribusiness'es using them as a scare tactic to make themselves untouchable. Most all of you, as I pointed out before raise your animals and run your farms sustainably, but because of the threat of.... Oh my gosh Peta, you defend the undefendable because they will come after you next. Well what if they do? They have no real power, they are a loud mouthed fringe group that probably has less than 1% of the population agreeing with them.

It is like the gun control argument, the NRA has been using similar scare tactics to defend the right to keep and bear Assault rifles, like we could overthrow the government if it became despotic with some semi auto sks's or other para military guns. If the government ever needed to be overthrown you might lobby for the right to keep and bear Apache helicopters and M1 tanks but otherwise you wouldn't have a prayer.

Big Agribusiness uses Peta as the bogey man, if I was a CEO of a big animal agribusiness company, I might even be funding them. It keeps the rest of you in line like you are one big family that must stick together. Meanwhile they are eating you alive. Peta is no real threat to you, but the monopolies that control pricing definetely are.

 

[dun]

It is like the gun control argument,

You might want to look and see how gun control has changed CA.
BTW, that's one of the primary reasons we escaped from there.

dun

 

[MillIronQH]

If you think the cattle industry isn't in the cross hairs look at what the tree/bunny huggers have tried to do on the National forests. First the effort to get all livestock banned and when they weren't gaining any ground with that that started whining about people riding horses on NFS land. They pretty much shut up at least for a while when five of their Az. big dogs were caught growing marijuana in the Mazatzal Wilderness.

They've done some damage to the Outfitters and the ranchers but they haven't got them completely closed down yet.Z

 

[J&T Farm]

KMac wrote "We rarely if ever buy meat at the store. In the fall, I manage to shake off my animal rights activist leanings and shoot a couple of deer. We also eat our own beef. If eggs and chicken or our thanksgiving turkey cost a little more, I guess that I might have spend a little more on them and a little less supporting Japan or India or indonesia or china for junk that is not Germane to my survival."

Not everyone lives in Nowhere, Indiana on an old 40 acre homestead with a pig, a chicken and a cow. Millions and millions of Americans live in CITYS. Not everyone can raise and butcher their own meat. This ain't 1890. I agree we have to have substainable agriculture but at the same we have to grow lots and lot s of food.

 

[kjones]

KMacGinley. If you think Peta has no real power, think again. They have been able to get the support of thousands and thousands of people who live in the cities, by providing them with false information and distorted truths. These people are easily manipulated because of their ignorance or what a real farm or ranch is truly like, and how the livestock are treated and cared for, not to mention the reasons why. Peta is a greater threat to the smaller guy than the big animal agribusiness company, because the big company has deep pockets and Peta knows the little guy doesn't. Therefor he is an easier target. If you still think they have no power, how do you think the anti trapping laws get passed? By people voting that don't understand why it is necessary, but that's a whole nother argument.

The gun control argument is one that can bring up a lot of history involving revolution so Ill stay out of that one for now.

 

[sackshowcattle]

I think that what the big fight should be is what happens if there is another war and trade is shut down. All the new laws and regulations combined with increasing land prices from people wanting to tear up the prime crop and range land for a house in the berbs what will you eat. All the new laws and higher prices are doing is making us dependent on other countries. I don't want to have to let the government know every time I take a calf to the vet or a show, or when I go on a trail ride. Because that is what will happen with the farm registration. As far as the pig thing goes. I know a couple of producers and they have to let the sows out a few times a day and let them exercise or the muscles go into atrophy and have to be put down. that is only during farrowing other than that they are out in lots. One of the producers has a 20,000 sow unit in Nebraska and that is what happens everyday with every pig. But lets get to the point.
The first step to all of this needs to be education. Bring back the ag programs and make the whole country understand what it takes to raise and animal, How much work goes into their food and were it comes from. Not The grocery store. Teach them that wheat makes bread, What livestock produces what cuts of meat and where there milk comes from. Let them see how much ground it takes to raise the vegetables they eat. Let them taste the difference between what is shipped from other countries to what is grown hear. Maybe then we won't get the same price for commodities now as we did in the 60's when tractors were a couple grand and land was a couple hundred dollars an acre.

 

[KMacGinley]

KMac wrote "We rarely if ever buy meat at the store. In the fall, I manage to shake off my animal rights activist leanings and shoot a couple of deer. We also eat our own beef. If eggs and chicken or our thanksgiving turkey cost a little more, I guess that I might have spend a little more on them and a little less supporting Japan or India or indonesia or china for junk that is not Germane to my survival."

Not everyone lives in Nowhere, Indiana on an old 40 acre homestead with a pig, a chicken and a cow. Millions and millions of Americans live in CITYS. Not everyone can raise and butcher their own meat. This ain't 1890. I agree we have to have substainable agriculture but at the same we have to grow lots and lot s of food.

How did you know that I live in Nowhere Indiana?

Fresh out of pigs and chickens, but we do have a few cows.

 

[KMacGinley]

KMacGinley. If you think Peta has no real power, think again. They have been able to get the support of thousands and thousands of people who live in the cities, by providing them with false information and distorted truths. These people are easily manipulated because of their ignorance or what a real farm or ranch is truly like, and how the livestock are treated and cared for, not to mention the reasons why. Peta is a greater threat to the smaller guy than the big animal agribusiness company, because the big company has deep pockets and Peta knows the little guy doesn't. Therefor he is an easier target. If you still think they have no power, how do you think the anti trapping laws get passed? By people voting that don't understand why it is necessary, but that's a whole nother argument.

The gun control argument is one that can bring up a lot of history involving revolution so Ill stay out of that one for now.

Here in nowheresville you can still trap animals with leghold traps to your hearts content. The question is should you be able to? The answer for me is no, when I trapped I always used conibears.

But I think that you are absolutely right. There are Thousands and Thousands of Peta supporters, but luckily there are millions and millions of people that enjoy a good burger.

 

[KMacGinley]

If you think the cattle industry isn't in the cross hairs look at what the tree/bunny huggers have tried to do on the National forests. First the effort to get all livestock banned and when they weren't gaining any ground with that that started whining about people riding horses on NFS land. They pretty much shut up at least for a while when five of their Az. big dogs were caught growing marijuana in the Mazatzal Wilderness.

They've done some damage to the Outfitters and the ranchers but they haven't got them completely closed down yet.Z

I don't think that you should open up the grazing public lands can of worms. That is kinda of a sore subject with people that don't get the sweetheart deal on grazing BLM land.

 

[S.R.R.]

Guys look up here if you want to see what happens when green peace, peta ect. are thought to have no power!

We have lost fishing in the east, bear hunting in the spring, seal hunting in the north and a large part of the east, leg hold traps for fur bearing animals are illegal to even own, hand guns are restricted you can not even hold a gun at the store or in your friends house without a hard to get license! High fence hunting was band last year, we have a green party that runs for government and actually won a seat and now sits in parliament. They are now going after bow hunting and have put 3.5 million dollars into it for the next 5 years!! Guys do not turn a blind eye to a buzzing fly, it has a way of biting were it hurts!

Canada is a great country but have let some of these groups get way out of hand!!

 

[ChrisB]

Your right, we'll always be able to raise livestock and eat meat as long as it's raised humanely. It's not like they will try and tell us we can't slaughter our livestock for human consumption... Excuse me, I would like to chat longer but I have to go sort some old horses out and ship them...

 

[hraz]

We have lost fishing in the east, bear hunting in the spring, seal hunting in the north and a large part of the east,

Should people be allowed to hunt animals into extinction? If humans used a little restraint and managed the populations instead of extinguishing them PETA etc. would not be able to restrict the hunting the way they have. We are so excessive in everything. Self regulation does not seem to work. Who is protecting the aniaml populations. When they are gone they are gone. Then what do you hunt?

 

[badaxemoo]

The first step to all of this needs to be education. Bring back the ag programs and make the whole country understand what it takes to raise and animal, How much work goes into their food and were it comes from. Not The grocery store. Teach them that wheat makes bread, What livestock produces what cuts of meat and where there milk comes from. Let them see how much ground it takes to raise the vegetables they eat. Let them taste the difference between what is shipped from other countries to what is grown hear. Maybe then we won't get the same price for commodities now as we did in the 60's when tractors were a couple grand and land was a couple hundred dollars an acre.

I wholeheartedly agree. The problems with our food system are largely based on ignorance. Everybody is to blame for this, whether it is the urban consumer, the food conglomerates, or the farmer who continues business as usual when change is in order.

People on this board often demonize "city slickers" as ignorant fools who willy-nilly promote legislation that threatens their livelihoods. We need these people on our side, because as everyone on this board knows, rural people are greatly outnumbered. I think urban consumers could potentially be our most powerful allies for two reasons:

1. If most people were aware of the disgusting conditions that occur in the confinement livestock industry they would probably hesitate to purchase meat at all. If most people were aware of the hazards to their health and their environment from modern agriculture (and the fact that their tax dollars are subsidizing it), you could bet we'd see a shift in consumption patterns and Farm Bill priorities.

2. The more people who are conscious about the impact their food choices have, the more demand there will be for sustainably raised meat and produce. Check out the Swedish pork industry as an example of what can happen when government regulation, progressive farmers, and conscientious consumers get together.

I agree we do need education, but not the traditional type of agricultural education that unquestionably reaches out for any type of technological fix or form of vertical integration that continues the erosion of our rural communities.

The change is happening. It's on a small scale right now, but for savvy producers, it might be a good time to get on board.

 

[auctionboy]

We have lost fishing in the east, bear hunting in the spring, seal hunting in the north and a large part of the east,

Should people be allowed to hunt animals into extinction? If humans used a little restraint and managed the populations instead of extinguishing them PETA etc. would not be able to restrict the hunting the way they have. We are so excessive in everything. Self regulation does not seem to work. Who is protecting the aniaml populations. When they are gone they are gone. Then what do you hunt?

Hunters and farmers care more for the landand animals then anyone and the they don't like it when people that consider them stupid step in to say how they are doing everything wrong. Hunting doesn't extenict animals pouching does and try to regulate that.

Also these large corperate farms buy support in congress and stop the Peta people and that allows farming on all levels to continue. I said cow/calf people would be not in the crosshairs because it is mostly grass based and open air. They could think up lots of stupid unrealistic ways to stop it, but I was saying it is safer from them then most types of Ag.

 

[3MR]

Or I will continue to live my good life and do my job, the pregnant pigs will still have more room to lay down and the dairy waste bull calves that are everywhere around here will not be chained in pens too small for my dog.

I thought you didnt have a veal industry