AI 60 days after calving

[Lbass]

I keep reading reference that you shouldn't inseminate a cow until 60 days after calving. By my math with 283 day gestation, 60 day referenced recovery, that means you are only AI breeding the cows that have calved on the first 20 days or 1st cycle.

So if you only have 60-80% settle AI, you're going to have a lot of cows falling out of the program, or are you relying on non-responders to be bred by the clean up bull early enough to be AI the following year? 1st week of the next cycle really that critical? would 54 days after calving be as reliable? What are the ramifications, wasted semen, or damaged repro tract from the drugs?

I've been thinking about AI off and on for a while, I think I finally have the cow herd to make it worth my time. Besides that, with the bull issues I've had this year, It would be nice to not rely on so many bulls, as my best bull got injured over the winter, healed up, then blew his leg out after 5 days with the cows. I guess I've never heard of an AI tank going lame.

 

[Bright Raven]

It can certainly work in an all AI program.

My calving season is September/October. My breeding season is December/January. So my cows have an average of 60 days postpartum for the uterus to recover and start recycling. My observation is that most cows start recycling in the first 30 days postpartum.

Some pregnancies will slip out of your window. Just the nature of the beast. For example, I had one this year that was bred and carried a pregnancy for 60 days and then lost her pregnancy. I bred her back and she will calve on December 26. Not what I want. But over the past 4 years , I have kept the entire herd in this window doing 100 % AI.

I don't have a breeding bull on the farm. It sure cuts down on that effort but a total AI program takes a commitment.

 

[LJCB]

I do a Timed program and my cut off is 45
Days. I've had really good rates 75% plus. If I had more time I would AI every cow but isn't realistic for us.

 

[cow pollinater]

I wouldn't hesitate to go 30 days on the late calvers. You'd be surprised at how decent the results can be if they're in decent condition. It certainly won't match what you'd get at 60 days but it's a good management tool to get them cycling for the bulls and some of them will breed up.
I helped a dairyman that was having reproductive problems with his fresh cow protocol for a few years. He was all bull bred. Part of my thirty day program was lut shots on a regular interval. I talked him into a dose of gnrh and breeding them at 35 days, which was the last day of the program, and averaged around three services per conception and his bulls were running around 70% on the following cycle. That REALLY sped thing up for him and took him from struggling to keep his stanchions full to selling heifers.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

I have bred them 45 days after calving and had good results. As long as she is cycling she can settle.

 

[Stickney94]

The practical reality with using AI exclusively is that you have to make compromises. For example, last year I had a two cows that were well out of our hoped for calving window. They both calved on June 24.

In order to "try" and get them back into the window, we went ahead and CIDR'd on July 5 and bred on July 14. One settled first time and the other bred back on the 2nd heat cycle after. Certainly not "by the book."

We have bred after 45 days as well with some luck.

 

[Lbass]

I don't have any plans to go 100% AI. I don't have the holding pens or labor to go that route. I run a small commercial operation of 115 mama cows with no one around to help. Sorry, if I made it sound like I wanted to.

My current plan which could change as I research... Use the Timed AI protocol with scratcher tickets. AI as they come in and TAI everything that doesn't come in early. SO after 3 days of getting cows up to AI, The cleanup bulls will have to handle the rest.

I did help a guy AI 37 of his cows this year. I got to sleeve several heifers and cows. I think between me going to a school and him helping next spring it might be a reality.

My real goals are Improving Herd Genetics at a faster rate possible than the bull can offer, And a tighter calving season.

 

[Stickney94]

If you have bulls I'd select your best X cows for AI protocols (maybe 30-50 head) and leave the rest to the bull. Focus on getting female replacements from your best X cows. Then AI the heifers and the X cows next year. And so on. You can either do more AI or less depending on how things are going.

Each AI season I ponder getting a cleanup bull. But the other 9 months of the year I'm glad I don't have to manage a cleanup bull, haha.

 

[Lucky_P]

To move late calvers up put in a CIDR 20 days post calving

https://newsroom.unl.edu/announce/beef/6418/36728

 

[Redgully]

I start from 40 days post calving. Before that is risky as still possibly going through partition. The first heat can be an infertile heat also. But from 40 days onwards i have had good success. We used to do a timed program and give any returns one more go before either bull or cull. Now i only have 7 cows i just go on natural heats and rarely miss but it takes a surprising amount of time. Yesterday i had one cow with a stream of mucus and not a single other sign. No interest from any others or even ny steer. She is 55 days and was the last to calve so i put a straw in anyway. Cervix was perfect, gun went through without trying. Will see what happens.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

I don't have any plans to go 100% AI. I don't have the holding pens or labor to go that route. I run a small commercial operation of 115 mama cows with no one around to help. Sorry, if I made it sound like I wanted to.

My current plan which could change as I research... Use the Timed AI protocol with scratcher tickets. AI as they come in and TAI everything that doesn't come in early. SO after 3 days of getting cows up to AI, The cleanup bulls will have to handle the rest.

I did help a guy AI 37 of his cows this year. I got to sleeve several heifers and cows. I think between me going to a school and him helping next spring it might be a reality.

My real goals are Improving Herd Genetics at a faster rate possible than the bull can offer, And a tighter calving season.

Don't to disappointed if the clean bulls calves are just as good.

 

[lithuanian farmer]

Don't have a particular set number of days. Most of the time AI when see the first heat. Just had one cow for AI on the 25th of May. She has calved on the 20th of April. Have settled some cows on ~1.5month after calving. AI'ing abit earlier than at two months if I see a heat and need to move that abit back in calving time. Most of our cows show their first noticable heat at ~2months after calving.

 

[Lbass]

I don't have any plans to go 100% AI. I don't have the holding pens or labor to go that route. I run a small commercial operation of 115 mama cows with no one around to help. Sorry, if I made it sound like I wanted to.

My current plan which could change as I research... Use the Timed AI protocol with scratcher tickets. AI as they come in and TAI everything that doesn't come in early. SO after 3 days of getting cows up to AI, The cleanup bulls will have to handle the rest.

I did help a guy AI 37 of his cows this year. I got to sleeve several heifers and cows. I think between me going to a school and him helping next spring it might be a reality.

My real goals are Improving Herd Genetics at a faster rate possible than the bull can offer, And a tighter calving season.

Don't to disappointed if the clean bulls calves are just as good.

I had planned to buy terminal clean up bulls, I would expect a nice, fast growing calf, probably a more sale barn friendly calf than the AI. Especially since most of the bulls I've been looking at semen on are moderate frame, moderate milk, decent growth, and excelling in carcass traits. I'ld like to move to a grid market someday.

Is 10 days enough between last AI and Bull turnout to be sure of parentage without DNA testing?

 

[Lbass]

Follow up to that, probably a separate discussion. The proven bulls I've looked at are Hoover Dam, and VAR Reserve.
Unproven would be Revive, and Bluestem (who I wouldn't use because of -2 Doc). Just examples. I don't think I'll find the carcass traits i'm after in 1100 # cattle, but I don't think they need to be huge either, at least not the dams.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

To move late calvers up put in a CIDR 20 days post calving

https://newsroom.unl.edu/announce/beef/6418/36728

Good article - will use that in my newsletter. Might wait for next year prior to breeding season.

I never hesitate to breed a cow if it has been 30+ days and I have started my breeding season. Yes, it could be an infertile heat, but I will risk it to get her calving earlier in the season.

 

[Double R Ranch]

When I've needed to bump up a late calver I will do a Cidr sync with breeding at 30 days. Don't do it often but have had good success with it. Even more success with leaving the Cidr in 10-14 days. Was recommended by my semen rep years back and has worked well for us.
Normally we calve in February/March and breed in May/June. Try for a 60 day calving window max.
We haven't had a live bull on our place in over 15 years. If they don't breed back in a timely manner they are shipped. Our fertility has dramatically increased over the years by culling for hard breeders etc.

 

[WinterSpringsFarm]

To move late calvers up put in a CIDR 20 days post calving

https://newsroom.unl.edu/announce/beef/6418/36728

Good article - will use that in my newsletter. Might wait for next year prior to breeding season.

I never hesitate to breed a cow if it has been 30+ days and I have started my breeding season. Yes, it could be an infertile heat, but I will risk it to get her calving earlier in the season.

Me too Jeanne

 

[CreekAngus]

Follow up to that, probably a separate discussion. The proven bulls I've looked at are Hoover Dam, and VAR Reserve.
Unproven would be Revive, and Bluestem (who I wouldn't use because of -2 Doc). Just examples. I don't think I'll find the carcass traits i'm after in 1100 # cattle, but I don't think they need to be huge either, at least not the dams.

If you're chasing more terminal traits, I wouldn't use Hoover Dam. I know a commercial guy that has had great success using bargain semen. These stud companies try to introduce us a bunch of new bulls every year and maybe 10% stick and the others just don't get used for whatever reasons. This guy just buys overstock from his reps on the cheap. Even if they aren't the named bull of the year, they are still better than your herd bull (most of the time). If you're not into seed stock, chasing and following numbers ain't going to do much. I once asked an old timer about carcass traits, he told me corn does more for carcass than any EPD he'd ever seen.