after bag strutts how long until they come in

[Gate Opener]

Because of the drought we are planning on selling our bull. We have 2 cows with calves that are about 3 months old. I wanted to see if the cows would come in or if they are bred before we sold the bull so I separated the mamas from the calves (something that I read about on here but couldn't find when I did a search) I separated them last night and of course the cow's bags are strutted today. How long do I need to keep them separate? How long before the cows come in if they are not bred?

I hate doing it this way but it seems that whenever we take something to the vet we come out about $100 lighter(if not more).

 

[Caustic Burno]

If a cow hasn't breed back in three months need to cull the cow.

 

[Gate Opener]

I agree.

I guess you would say this is my way of preg checking them but I don't know how long before they will come in if they aren't bred.

 

[randiliana]

I have to say that I wouldn't believe in that old wives tale. They will come in about 21 days after there last heat, if they weren't bred on it. The best, and quickest way of telling would be to pregcheck them after they have been away from the bull for 45 days. Sure you are paying the vet, but at least you know for sure.

 

[jnowack]

If the cows have not cycled, pulling the calves off for 72 hours may "jump start" their cycle and I would expect them to be in heat within a week. But this does not always work. If they were already cycling but did not breed, pulling the calves will probably not do anything unless they short cycle from the stress possibly.

The reason this works sometimes is that the calf nursing causes hormones in the cow to be released in the cow that stimulate milk production and milk let down. These hormones are antagonistic to the hormones that control the heat cycle so removing them can trigger heat. The other thing that helps bring them in is that the energy and nutrients that are being used for milk production are freed up while the calf is not nursing.

I would probably preg check first rather than stress the cows and calves for nothing.

 

[Gate Opener]

Thank you

 

[C HOLLAND]

If a cow hasn't breed back in three months need to cull the cow.

Caustic, I have a question for, do you preg check all your cows during the year or do you just cull at the end of the calving cycle the ones that did not have a calf.

I plan to do the blood test on my small herd and if I find one open after 90 days she will either go to the sale or be the next one in the freezer. I know this is probally not practical for the numbers you have.

 

[LibertyIIE]

48 Hours is enough to kickstart .

 

[msscamp]

If the cows have not cycled, pulling the calves off for 72 hours may "jump start" their cycle and I would expect them to be in heat within a week.

I would think that pulling a cow's calf for 3 days would stress the cow enough that she wouldn't settle anyway, so what's the point?

 

[Caustic Burno]

If a cow hasn't breed back in three months need to cull the cow.

Caustic, I have a question for, do you preg check all your cows during the year or do you just cull at the end of the calving cycle the ones that did not have a calf.

I plan to do the blood test on my small herd and if I find one open after 90 days she will either go to the sale or be the next one in the freezer. I know this is probally not practical for the numbers you have.

I don't preg check I keep good records on calfing dates.
If a cow doesn't produce a calf every 12 months she is on the short list. She will then be checked if open she is gone if pregnant she will be gone as a cow/calf pair. It just cost to much to keep open cows.
Not to say I haven't kept one over for different reasons as a cow can abort for a lot of causes. I recently sold a young cow due to she had a dead calf on the first and let the buzzards get the second. Had she killed the calf defending it she could have stayed.
I didn't feel she was working for me but against me.
C holland I don't really think there is a right or wrong way to doing this as long as you cull the cows that are not producing the maximum for you. It is all about cost control it might be cheaper for you to check on the front end and me on the back.

 

[C HOLLAND]

Caustic,,,,,Thanks very much for your reply. I really like understanding how different size operations work. I think for a small outfit ( LIKE ME) the new blood test preg check can be a good tool to use for culling non producing cows at an earlier stage.

I don't imagine it would be the best for a large operation though.

JMO

Thanks again

 

[randiliana]

Caustic,,,,,Thanks very much for your reply. I really like understanding how different size operations work. I think for a small outfit ( LIKE ME) the new blood test preg check can be a good tool to use for culling non producing cows at an earlier stage.

I don't imagine it would be the best for a large operation though.

JMO

Thanks again

We run the bulls for about 60 days. Everything gets pregchecked in the fall, and if they aren't bred they go to town. That way we aren't putting feed into a nonproducing animal over winter. Then in the spring if a cow loses her calf we usually transplant, and depending on why she lost it we may or may not keep her around for another year. Aborts usually get kept, but not always.

 

[jnowack]

If the cows have not cycled, pulling the calves off for 72 hours may "jump start" their cycle and I would expect them to be in heat within a week.

I would think that pulling a cow's calf for 3 days would stress the cow enough that she wouldn't settle anyway, so what's the point?

The only time I have pulled the calves for breeding is with donor cows. I like to pull them calves off when I start shots and put back when I get the donors bred. For the rest of the herd they better come in on their own if they want to stay here. That is one of the things I have against CIDR's. They will cause cows to cycle that may not have done it on their own. That is not the kind I want to propigate.

I preg most of my cows myself when I wean the calves because I do not run bulls at all of my pastures. If they are far enough along for me to tell then they go out to the places without a bull. If I can't tell they go back with the bull. I do kind of the same thing as CB, if they breed late I can sell them later as a bred or a pair and get more out of them than culling them earlier and selling them open.

 

[jcarkie]

48 hours is long enough, if you were going to use that method do it when the bulls are in and it will stimulate them. it is much easier to preg check than the hassle of seperateing calves in my opinion.

 

[msscamp]

If the cows have not cycled, pulling the calves off for 72 hours may "jump start" their cycle and I would expect them to be in heat within a week.

I would think that pulling a cow's calf for 3 days would stress the cow enough that she wouldn't settle anyway, so what's the point?

The only time I have pulled the calves for breeding is with donor cows. I like to pull them calves off when I start shots and put back when I get the donors bred. For the rest of the herd they better come in on their own if they want to stay here. That is one of the things I have against CIDR's. They will cause cows to cycle that may not have done it on their own. That is not the kind I want to propigate.

I preg most of my cows myself when I wean the calves because I do not run bulls at all of my pastures. If they are far enough along for me to tell then they go out to the places without a bull. If I can't tell they go back with the bull. I do kind of the same thing as CB, if they breed late I can sell them later as a bred or a pair and get more out of them than culling them earlier and selling them open.

Thanks for explaining. I don't know the first thing about CIDR'S or any of the drugs that are now used for AI'ing - they weren't available when we did it - we simply checked the cows for standing heat and then AI'd based on that. Just out of idle curiosity, what is your settle percentage when you pull calves for 72 hours?

 

[jnowack]

If the cows have not cycled, pulling the calves off for 72 hours may "jump start" their cycle and I would expect them to be in heat within a week.

I would think that pulling a cow's calf for 3 days would stress the cow enough that she wouldn't settle anyway, so what's the point?

The only time I have pulled the calves for breeding is with donor cows. I like to pull them calves off when I start shots and put back when I get the donors bred. For the rest of the herd they better come in on their own if they want to stay here. That is one of the things I have against CIDR's. They will cause cows to cycle that may not have done it on their own. That is not the kind I want to propigate.

I preg most of my cows myself when I wean the calves because I do not run bulls at all of my pastures. If they are far enough along for me to tell then they go out to the places without a bull. If I can't tell they go back with the bull. I do kind of the same thing as CB, if they breed late I can sell them later as a bred or a pair and get more out of them than culling them earlier and selling them open.

Thanks for explaining. I don't know the first thing about CIDR'S or any of the drugs that are now used for AI'ing - they weren't available when we did it - we simply checked the cows for standing heat and then AI'd based on that. Just out of idle curiosity, what is your settle percentage when you pull calves for 72 hours?

I think you misread my post. I have only pulled the calves when breeding donors to flush in hopes that they will respond better to the FSH. I would expect the conception rates when pulling the calves for a regular AI to be comparable to the rest of your conception rates on first cycles (postpartum).