You are in Southern Mi. Its not about where they are in their gestation ~ its about the freezing weather they are enduring day after day.hayray":1awxgg72 said:
She asked for honest input ~ not a pat on the head!
advice wanted please update, pictures, update
- Thread starter rockridgecattle
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She asked for honest input ~ not a pat on the head!
hayray
Well-known member
30 lbs. fed as is will provide a cow over 2.7 pounds of protein per day, that is plenty and at a cows limit no matter what climate you are in. If Manitoba is at the limits of climate for cattle I think they know that already up there. I don't have the numbers exactly with me because my nutrition books are at home, I am over at my lady friends having a cup of coffee, but I would guess those TDN numbers are low but good enough for wintering cows that this guy does not need to go out and sell more cows are go broke buying energy. Excess protein can be metabolized for energy use, it is just more inefficient. Right now I have cows burrowing through a foot of snow grazing what is probably 5 or 6% protein hay and they are getting about 2 to 4 lbs. of 20% cube a day and they look great. Our outside temp is -3 right now.
TexasBred
Well-known member
hayray":izheet6b said:
This actually burns energy. Most excess protein ends up passing thru the cattle. If you're feeding low quality hay and 20% cubes you probably have plenty of protein but are deficient in energy but the digestion process will warm her up.
OP
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rockridgecattle
Well-known member
thanks all for the advice, and the listening.
since we vaccinated on Saturday, hubby has been adding in one 1600 to 1800 # bale of green feed, and decreasing the hay by one 900# bale. This was donated to him from the menonite Central committee. Hubby was saving it for calving but i convinced him (nagged him) otherwise. This included the cows are getting 39.6# of feed a day. Plus the lick tubs. The last few weeks he has been feeding 35 # of straight hay a day. Hubby mentioned we have a about a hundred bushels of wheat left from the chickens, which we sold (the chickens) just before Christmas. Not the best, but better than nothing. We will however have to feed it whole with some rumenmaker. We can not start the roll mill. Will blow every breaker and the mains in the barn because it is so hard to start when so cold...experience.
Hubby is worried that if we feed too much now, and the spring was like last winter, nothing until july, we will not have enough hay. I say sell a few cows or lets sell our 12 calves to make up the hay but, he figures it will be ok. He is the eternal optimist, I however am the consumate worrier.
Corn to buy a no go here. None to be found. Even Feedrite (our feed house) can't get corn. And they ususally put it into the pellet ration. There is an abundant of feed barley here in Manitoba, but the cost is high, and the quality is poor. It has vermtoxin (sp) a type of fusarium (sp). This toxin actually takes away from the feed quality and turn it into starch. Leaving no value, costing us more.
feed rite 14% pellet with rumensin and mineral $168 a tonne.
steamed rolled barley, no vermtoxin (sp), $220 a tonne both need to add in delivery
The bulls are getting 64# of hay a day. They get one 900# bale and lasts the two of them for 7 days. But since they are a good deal bigger...
since we vaccinated on Saturday, hubby has been adding in one 1600 to 1800 # bale of green feed, and decreasing the hay by one 900# bale. This was donated to him from the menonite Central committee. Hubby was saving it for calving but i convinced him (nagged him) otherwise. This included the cows are getting 39.6# of feed a day. Plus the lick tubs. The last few weeks he has been feeding 35 # of straight hay a day. Hubby mentioned we have a about a hundred bushels of wheat left from the chickens, which we sold (the chickens) just before Christmas. Not the best, but better than nothing. We will however have to feed it whole with some rumenmaker. We can not start the roll mill. Will blow every breaker and the mains in the barn because it is so hard to start when so cold...experience.
Hubby is worried that if we feed too much now, and the spring was like last winter, nothing until july, we will not have enough hay. I say sell a few cows or lets sell our 12 calves to make up the hay but, he figures it will be ok. He is the eternal optimist, I however am the consumate worrier.
Corn to buy a no go here. None to be found. Even Feedrite (our feed house) can't get corn. And they ususally put it into the pellet ration. There is an abundant of feed barley here in Manitoba, but the cost is high, and the quality is poor. It has vermtoxin (sp) a type of fusarium (sp). This toxin actually takes away from the feed quality and turn it into starch. Leaving no value, costing us more.
feed rite 14% pellet with rumensin and mineral $168 a tonne.
steamed rolled barley, no vermtoxin (sp), $220 a tonne both need to add in delivery
The bulls are getting 64# of hay a day. They get one 900# bale and lasts the two of them for 7 days. But since they are a good deal bigger...
mnmtranching
Well-known member
This weather is the toughest on those coming second calvers. Your cows are doing OK in my opinion. Feeding the good hay with the poorer stuff is a good idea. Your cows look like all the northern cattle I've seen lately. Not many fat stock cows around. I would make sure they get their bellies full no mater how many pounds it takes per cow per day. Feeding a little corn won't hurt. I think a belly full of good hay is the best way to feed Wintering cows. With the lick tubs. This week will be a real test, they talk -40 tonight.
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rockridgecattle
Well-known member
because the next few nights are to be brutal, hubby is feeding for two days today and then going out tommorrow to check on them and top up. Just so they can eat all they want if needed.
Willow Springs
Well-known member
People get hung up on protein because that is the way the feed companies market their products. In our Western Canadian climate protein is very rarely limiting unless you are feeding straw. The protein in this hay is adequate for these cows; in fact if you have been feeding free choice hay they are getting way more than they need. ENERGY is way below what they need! Buying high protein lick tubs or supplements is a waste of money; they don't need it. Also, as another person pointed out, animals use energy to break down un-needed protein, and it takes energy to break down urea based protein as well. The last thing you need in this situation is to be losing energy for protein break down; you don't need protein! We have seen instances where cows have lost weight eating the very best second cut alfalfa hay becasue there was TOO MUCH protein.
Your change, with adding the bale of green feed, will work for now. As you get closer to calving and into lactation will will be short of energy again. The cows will begin losing weight again; this will be hardest on your young cows. A person can't afford to lose their youngest cows, the depreciation is astronomical. You will still need another plan to increase energy in the diet. The cows don't look to bad now, but you have a lot of winter to go, fluffy winter hair also hides their true condition.
I really suggest that you work closely with a ruminant nutritionist; don't rely on advice you get here. Sometimes there's too much opinion and not enough fact.
Your change, with adding the bale of green feed, will work for now. As you get closer to calving and into lactation will will be short of energy again. The cows will begin losing weight again; this will be hardest on your young cows. A person can't afford to lose their youngest cows, the depreciation is astronomical. You will still need another plan to increase energy in the diet. The cows don't look to bad now, but you have a lot of winter to go, fluffy winter hair also hides their true condition.
I really suggest that you work closely with a ruminant nutritionist; don't rely on advice you get here. Sometimes there's too much opinion and not enough fact.
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rockridgecattle
Well-known member
Willow, the livestock specialist is coming, just a matter of it warming up abit so he can spend time with the herd rather than just a quick look. Then the nutrtion has our feed samples, and we will all work together to get the energy up there again.
Bees are so much easier...
Bees are so much easier...
mnmtranching
Well-known member
Willow Springs":2gog6x8w said:
This sounds like some one with five pretty cows on five pretty acres. :cowboy:
1982vett
Well-known member
The bovine was designed by our Creator to live, stay healthy and be totally sustained on a diet of grass and forage. (Plagiarized from a grass-fed beef site)
http://www.extension.org/pages/Suppleme ... trategy%3F
http://www.extension.org/pages/What_Det ... y_by_a_Cow
http://www.extension.org/pages/Interpre ... is_Summary
http://www.extension.org/pages/Suppleme ... trategy%3F
http://www.extension.org/pages/What_Det ... y_by_a_Cow
http://www.extension.org/pages/Interpre ... is_Summary
Willow Springs
Well-known member
Sounds like someone with too much opinion and not very many facts :lol2:
Aaron
Well-known member
rockridgecattle":y0qoz79h said:
A suggestion, what about Central Grain in Winnipeg? http://www.centralgrain.com/products.html I am not sure what the minimum tonnage is for them to deliver, but I am thinking 6-8 ton.
Not sure why you need rumensin and minerals in the ration for cows. Feedrite should give a quote without it.
I would suggest you have to really start crunching your numbers on this. We are paying $368.50 a tonne for our corn/oats/pellet ration, and is being fed out at a rate of 25 cents/head/day on our yearlings and keeping them in good shape, not fat.
A solution might be to market the calves early, but do the numbers first. Our yearlings are eating about 24 lbs/head/day of mixed hay, while the dry spring cows are eating about 33 lbs/head/day. Figure out your costs per pound (or /head/day) on everything and then starting thinking of scenarios and play the numbers game with them. Whatever works best is what you go with. :cowboy:
TexasBred
Well-known member
1982vett":dnzq86hd said:
Our Creator also designed most dinosaurs this way and also created more than a few predators so we're looking at "survival of the fittest" unless man intercedes in some manner.
Stocker Steve
Well-known member
Grandma cows can really melt in this kind of weather. The cows in the photos look fine if you are calving on grass... Timing is the issue.
A little cheap local protein (like oats) plus an ionosphore will increase intake if your hay is really that poor. We are talking only one or two pounds per head per day.
We have minus 24 F this morning but it is a dry cold. Good luck.
A little cheap local protein (like oats) plus an ionosphore will increase intake if your hay is really that poor. We are talking only one or two pounds per head per day.
We have minus 24 F this morning but it is a dry cold. Good luck.
brandonm_13
Well-known member
This may have been asked. I didn't look. Do these cows have any kind of windbreak- barn, woods, etc?
If not, if you have some old junky roundbales, they can be used as a fenceline to make a windbreak. The warmer the cows stay, the less energy they'll need. Just a thought.
If not, if you have some old junky roundbales, they can be used as a fenceline to make a windbreak. The warmer the cows stay, the less energy they'll need. Just a thought.
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rockridgecattle
Well-known member
we feed them in the bush so they get alot of windbreak.
Willow Springs
Well-known member
Rumensin will improve feed conversion and clean most of the coccidiosis out of the cows prior to calving; less infective organisms to pass to calves. Vitamins and Minerals are usually cheaper when fed in a complete ration than when fed in an free choice mineral. You also have better control over vitamin and mineral intake when you are feeding it to the cows; less under and over consumption.
Oats is not really considered a protein source, usually an energy source, but usually considered the lowest source of grain energy. In our area oats is usually 10-12% protein; most hay in the Western Canada would be almost the same, and if you have been following the thread, protein is not an issue according to the feed test that has been shown.
mnmtranching
Well-known member
W.S. Sorry I take it back. 
I miss judged you. You don't have five acres and five cows.
More like five pretty pictures of five pretty cows. :cowboy: Keep studying.
You know? You are talking with people that are really out there Wintering cows. :roll:
I miss judged you. You don't have five acres and five cows. More like five pretty pictures of five pretty cows. :cowboy: Keep studying.
You know? You are talking with people that are really out there Wintering cows. :roll:
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rockridgecattle
Well-known member
brandonm_13":1qf0r9pl said:
All our hay is junky this year. Last year spring did not come until June10t...usually may we get some leaves and grass, by beginning to mid May. So we feed hay until June 15th. We ended up with very few reserves. NOt to mention last winter rivalled this winter and the hay stores vanished. Then if that did not beat all. Hubby had a brain wave. Fence off the hay left in the hay yard. 100 or so nice squarre alfalfa grass bales, 10 round bales of green feed, half a dozen second cut, about 50 rounds of good hay. Then there were about 50 wild hay bales round. There was an electric fencer around the hay. Some how the critters got through it, about 2500v to 3000 volts, took out the fence, destroyed the fencer, brand new, and ate all the reserves left except....the wild hay. Dumbclucks.
That is the reason for this thread lol.
Aaron
Well-known member
I can see we are both on the same wave length.mnmtranching":388oycg3 said:W.S. Sorry I take it back.
More like five pretty pictures of five pretty cows. :cowboy: Keep studying.
You know? You are talking with people that are really out there Wintering cows. :roll:
His comment about oats being a energy ration did it for me. :cowboy:
