ADG

[J+ Cattle]

What age do you adjust to before figuring a wean weight ratio? Or do you just take the actual age weight the day you wean regardless of age?

I take actual weights and adjust to 205 days, this is done for me automatically in an Excel spreadsheet. I use a program called Cowboss that is put out by the Manitoba Agriculture and Food Department as a free download. It tells me the weaning weight ratio of where each animal is within its' contemporary grouping, but it doesn't give me weaning weight ratios for the cows (lbs weaned/cow's weight) because it doesn't take into account the cows weights.

 

[Stickney94]

Those are two very different type of bulls there.
Byergo Black Magic: CED -3, BW +6.2, WW 85 Hopefully you only used Black Magic on cows and not heifers.
Raven Powerball: CED 10, BW +0.3, WW 57
I would consider Black Magic a strictly terminal sire used for growth and Powerball a more maternal sire that I would save heifers from.
What was your weaning weight ratio just for the Powerball calves? I guess it has to be less than 45.8% but probably not much less.

CT should add a category in the profile for Operation Type. I grew up in a cow/calf to finish cattle operation. That's all I know. I mention because my goals and metrics are aimed at end product. This weaning data is a piece of the puzzle. However, I also know based on yearling and slaughter weights which cows produce calves that can finish in a hurry (and grade very well).

Black Magic was used on some smaller framed/but experienced cows and aimed at terminal use. That said, I have been looking at some of the feed testing Byergo has been working on and haven't eliminated retaining a heifer or two to cross with FB Wagyu (wagyu are very calving ease).

Powerball was used exactly as you mention (based on information from Raven and Sitz).

 

[J+ Cattle]

I grew up in a cow/calf to finish cattle operation. That's all I know.

I think you're in a unique position in that most of us are only a segment of the supply chain; cow/calf, stocker/backgrounder, feedlot operator, slaughter house/packing plant. You cover all of the bases including retail outlet I suppose. I mention this because we tend to get tunnel vision in our segmented operations and raise what makes us the most in our limited view. Could it be that the buyers would actually prefer it if we changed what we raised? Maybe but we get no feedback other than a check from the sale. If a cattle buyer said, "you need better marbling" or "you need better feed efficiency in the feedlot" I know some still wouldn't do it, but I think customer feedback is important and the cattle buyer is our customer.

 

[Silver]

I think you're in a unique position in that most of us are only a segment of the supply chain; cow/calf, stocker/backgrounder, feedlot operator, slaughter house/packing plant. You cover all of the bases including retail outlet I suppose. I mention this because we tend to get tunnel vision in our segmented operations and raise what makes us the most in our limited view. Could it be that the buyers would actually prefer it if we changed what we raised? Maybe but we get no feedback other than a check from the sale. If a cattle buyer said, "you need better marbling" or "you need better feed efficiency in the feedlot" I know some still wouldn't do it, but I think customer feedback is important and the cattle buyer is our customer.

I thought that here in Canada we had a real chance as cow calf guys to improve our product back when we were forced into mandatory EID. We were promised that we would be able to follow our cattle through the system and get carcass data on all of our calves. Well that turned out to be either wishful thinking on the part of the government or a bald faced lie and I'm betting on the latter. I think that's a real shame.

 

[Buck Randall]

I thought that here in Canada we had a real chance as cow calf guys to improve our product back when we were forced into mandatory EID. We were promised that we would be able to follow our cattle through the system and get carcass data on all of our calves. Well that turned out to be either wishful thinking on the part of the government or a bald faced lie and I'm betting on the latter. I think that's a real shame.

I think it was probably wishful thinking. It wouldn't be that difficult to do, but I'm sure the feeders and packers resisted it in a way that the government didn't expect.

 

[Silver]

I think it was probably wishful thinking. It wouldn't be that difficult to do, but I'm sure the feeders and packers resisted it in a way that the government didn't expect.

We did get data for a few short years, then it suddenly stopped after 2014. It was really interesting to see that data, but before a yokel like me could figure out how best to use that info it all dried up.

 

[GoWyo]

I used actual (Weaning lb-Birth lb)/Days since Birth.

I get where AAA/other breeds need to try and equalize for variables so they have "adjusted" formulas to aid comparison across the breed/breeders/regions. However the adjusted 205 weaning weights can make cows with fertility problems/calving at end of window look like rock stars.

Just calculated WDA (assuming I did it correctly) and the average for PB Angus was 3.01. But again, it makes some of the late calvers look better than I think they are (highest WDA was 3.55, but her calf weighed 75-100 lbs less in actuality than the top 30% of calves).


I didn't weigh my cows at weaning. They've dropped a lot of weight this fall dining on dirt and corn stalks. The majority of my cows weight 1300-1400 when fat on grass in July. Using existing weights for mature cows in my database they weaned off at 45.8%. If I had weighed them now that figure would have skewed above that.

My highest WDA calves were also the heaviest 205 adjusted weights. WDA is just weight divided by days age on the day weighed -- no adjusted weights involved. All calves were at least 5.5 months old when weighed and the oldest were 7 months old. Between the adjusted 205, their ratios on adjusted 205 and WDA it gave a pretty good picture of each calf's performance.

 

[Dave]

The Noble Foundation has a pretty neat idea for creep grazing. They put an extension on a couple of the pig tail posts for the poly wire. They used them in such a manner as to put a jog in the fence. A calf walking down the fence would come to the jog and walk right under the wire to fresh grass. Wanting to get back to mom the calf would pace along the fence and come to the jog once again and easily walk under the fence.

 

[Stocker Steve]

NDSU 2021 CHAPS 5 yr average on benchmarks 2016-2020 from 57,271 cows exposed to bulls, 50 cow herd minimum

Cow Age 5.6
replacements 16%
cull rate 13%
pregnant 94%
birth weight 80 lbs
calf death loss 3.3%
88% of calves born within 42 days of day 0 of calving season
Age at weaning 190 days
Weaning Weight 564 lbs
average daily gain 2.45 lbs
pounds weaned per cow exposed 509 lbs
daily gain per cow exposed 2.2 lbs

cow weight at weaning 1400 lbs
cow body condition at weaning 5.7

Does cow age look high to you?

 

[Stocker Steve]

This is a good suggestion that I took from a different thread, but I thought it would fit nicely in this thread about ADG. Creep grazing calves on fresh pasture ahead of the cows in a pasture rotation system can be a low-cost way of increasing calf weights. You just need to build a gate that allows the calves to go through but is small enough to stop the cows, it needs to be sturdy because the cows will be pushing on it.

How often are you moving them?

 

[J+ Cattle]

How often are you moving them?

Right now I can't do true pasture rotations the way that I would like to. I have pastures with water and some that don't have water. The ones with water are grazed continuously, the ones without water I can close off and open up according to the grass conditions. It's not ideal.

 

[Stickney94]

I think it was probably wishful thinking. It wouldn't be that difficult to do, but I'm sure the feeders and packers resisted it in a way that the government didn't expect.

The big players in the beef industry realized how valuable end product/carcass data was. They also know that withholding it from farmers/ranchers allows them a huge advantage.

 

[Stocker Steve]

The big players in the beef industry realized how valuable end product/carcass data was. They also know that withholding it from farmers/ranchers allows them a huge advantage.

Sooo
a packer feeds the secret carcass data for BTOs back to the packer's buyers to help them bid better?

 

[Son of Butch]

Does cow age look high to you?

hmm - i don't know - it never gave the age of the 16% replacements
so I assume they were included in cow age 5.6 and assume the majority of the replacements were 2.5 years old at weaning, but an unknown % would also be older, being purchased cows for replacement of culls

made up example of cow age at weaning
2.5y 16%
3.5 13%
4.5 13%
5.5 13%
6.5 13%
7.5 11%
8.5 8%
9.5 7%
10 and over 6%
equals 100%

so, yeah 5.6 yrs old seems it could be a tad high, but 5.6 is what was reported