401k

[Brute 23]

How is it welfare for her? She's paid into social security her entire life. That was the rules and right or wrong that was the deal. It is HER money and its not her fault the politicians mishandled it.

It may or may not be for her, we don't know how much she put in vs how much she got back.

There are only 2 kinds of people with social security... the person who got screwed because you never saw your money or the person who got welfare because they got more than they put in.

Show me some research backing this claim. Gotta real split hairs to make that an accurate comment Brute.

I'm not sure what your asking? Look at my math you can see the getting screwed part. Then look at the quote posted early on how the first person took more than they put in. You can go read how to qualify for social security and see there are countless ways how to draw more than you put in. It's a junk insurance plan. Some will put in their whole lives and never see a dime. Some will put in very little and receive benefits their whole life.

 

[TexasBred]

But you say there are only two kind. Basically those getting overpaid and those getting underpaid. I'm sure there are some on both ends of the spectrum to but to make it all inclusive is a bit of an overstatement. But regardless it is designed to be exactly that way and always has been. It has to be in order to survive, just like insurance of any kind. You have to have more payers than recipients and more coming in than going out. BTW , FICA is not broke. Like a bank it may have trillions in assets and very few millions in actual cash. The remainder or difference is the "receivables"....payments due them which they will and are collecting with interest. BTW LBJ never robbed the social security fund either. There was hardly enough there at the time to even consider. The gov't has since borrowed from it and is repaying it with interest.

 

[Brute 23]

But you say there are only two kind. Basically those getting overpaid and those getting underpaid. I'm sure there are some on both ends of the spectrum to but to make it all inclusive is a bit of an overstatement. But regardless it is designed to be exactly that way and always has been. It has to be in order to survive, just like insurance of any kind. You have to have more payers than recipients and more coming in than going out. BTW , FICA is not broke. Like a bank it may have trillions in assets and very few millions in actual cash. The remainder or difference is the "receivables"....payments due them which they will and are collecting with interest. BTW LBJ never robbed the social security fund either. There was hardly enough there at the time to even consider. The gov't has since borrowed from it and is repaying it with interest.

I don't need government mandated insurance of any kind... especially that is ran by the government.

It amazes me that people curse Obama care but defend social security to the death. SS is probably worse than Obama care.

 

[D2Cat]

When SS began every worker was required to contribute. That was 1935, I think. My wife's grandmother was working for the county as the treasurer. I think she said her contribution was .10 per week. The employees did not have any discretionary income. They didn't have the money to contribute. The county raised their salary by the amount due SS.

The idea that Americans can manage their own money is a dream, much less understand how to invest in the stock market. A large portion of the population has both adults working (if they're not free loading) and they still spend next weeks income this week. Those couldn't come up with $500 to open an account.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Social Security is the biggest Ponzi scheme there has ever been. The only way any of it continues( social security payments, medicare, medicaid, welfare, policing the world) is by the Federal Reserve creating money and running up Federal debt. Congress can't even balance a yearly budget so money creation continues, there by creating inflation. Inflation eats your savings away and makes ss checks purchase less and less over time. A Vicious cycle that will not end well. Isn't Social Security basically the definition of SOCIALISM? IMO,Trusting govt for retirement, or anything for that matter, only creates dependency and suppresses responsibility.

Some good points, but where is the hyper inflation from the greatest credit creation in the history of the world?

 

[Anonymous]

Social Security is the biggest Ponzi scheme there has ever been. The only way any of it continues( social security payments, medicare, medicaid, welfare, policing the world) is by the Federal Reserve creating money and running up Federal debt. Congress can't even balance a yearly budget so money creation continues, there by creating inflation. Inflation eats your savings away and makes ss checks purchase less and less over time. A Vicious cycle that will not end well. Isn't Social Security basically the definition of SOCIALISM? IMO,Trusting govt for retirement, or anything for that matter, only creates dependency and suppresses responsibility.

Some good points, but where is the hyper inflation from the greatest credit creation in the history of the world?

I just did a quick google search. The maximum monthly ss payment in the year 2000 was around $1400. Last year was $2600. I'm no expert economist but I've been running my business for well over 20 years. I can tell you the cost of doing business has well over doubled since 2000. SS checks have not over doubled. I'm not sure if you can call that hyperinflation, but I think a retired person could live better on $1400 per month in 2000, than $2600 today. Anyone that isn't investment savvy but was just a worker/saver and accumulated some cash sitting in the bank over that time frame has lost 30% to 40% of their buying power. That's if you use the govt inflation reports, which I don't think are accurate.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Yes, the CPI is a lying piece of ****, designed to keep COL adjustments down.

The thing is we are in totally uncharted waters and the simplistic historical inflation theories do not apply. Thus the confusion in the FED that rates are flat to down...

Price of average or less ag equipment is down about 40% here. Land price is holding up, partially based on outside money. I could use a little inflation.

 

[boondocks]

Anybody saying that Social Security has caused recessions needs to bone up on their US history...
Yeah there was a generation ("Greatest Generation", Depression generation) that got out way more than they put in (by and large). Much of that was due to huge advances in longevity: many simply lived far longer than the generation just one or two before them. Still, most of them worked their a__ses off and fought one or two world wars. So, I don't really begrudge them.
And in terms of making 13mil in the stock market: assumes max returns, no risk, not having to retire into a recession, etc etc. Are we really ready to go back to a system where we have old folks starving in the streets? I realize tweaks needs to be made (probably further (gradually) pushing back the date you can get full benefits; maybe even means-testing for the super-wealthy) but most Americans don't want SS scrapped, and don't want it privatized.
Now, can we talk about whether a $2400 401k limit is a good idea?

 

[Son of Butch]

In a few years the whole 'baby boom' generation will have reached retirement age.
Currently they are putting more into 401k's than they are withdrawing, but as they age that will be changing.
The stock market is at an all time high in part because of all the 401k money going into the stock market.
Based on historic trends the market is over due for a correction.

A triple whammy of a reduced limit on 401k investing, increased 'baby boom' withdrawals and the natural correction
cycle all markets always go through... could/would throw the stock market/our economy into a tail spin.
Maybe not as deep as the great depression, but in my opinion one that would be longer lasting.


With an ever increasing spread between the haves and the have nots 2/3s of the children born today are going to be
faced with a very tough row to hoe.

 

[Brute 23]

Anybody saying that Social Security has caused recessions needs to bone up on their US history...
Yeah there was a generation ("Greatest Generation", Depression generation) that got out way more than they put in (by and large). Much of that was due to huge advances in longevity: many simply lived far longer than the generation just one or two before them. Still, most of them worked their a__ses off and fought one or two world wars. So, I don't really begrudge them.
And in terms of making 13mil in the stock market: assumes max returns, no risk, not having to retire into a recession, etc etc. Are we really ready to go back to a system where we have old folks starving in the streets? I realize tweaks needs to be made (probably further (gradually) pushing back the date you can get full benefits; maybe even means-testing for the super-wealthy) but most Americans don't want SS scrapped, and don't want it privatized.
Now, can we talk about whether a $2400 401k limit is a good idea?

13 Mil was figured at 10%... that's below the market average. What risk is there being in the S&P or DJ? If they fall nothing else will matter. You trust politicians holding your money? That is far greater a risk than the stick market. I don't care if the market is down a little when it's time to retire. As I said, during the great depression the DJ was only down 30%.... So even if you have 10M, it will go to 7M, even with taxes you will have more than you will get from SS.

We can't get any kind of SS reform because of you even mention it people freak out. Most don't understand it or the stock market and people pander to the old and ignorant saying some one is trying to take your benefits away. It's exactly like Obama care... made from the same cloth... uses the same verbage to scare the ignorant masses.

People invest their own 401Ks... Why can they not handle investing their own SS? Things have changed. We are not the old lady you take care of... we can invest our own money.

 

[Brute 23]

In a few years the whole 'baby boom' generation will have reached retirement age.
Currently they are putting more into 401k's than they are withdrawing, but as they age that will be changing.
The stock market is at an all time high in part because of all the 401k money going into the stock market.
Based on historic trends the market is over due for a correction.

A triple whammy of a reduced limit on 401k investing, increased 'baby boom' withdrawals and the natural correction
cycle all markets always go through... could/would throw the stock market/our economy into a tail spin.
Maybe not as deep as the great depression, but in my opinion one that would be longer lasting.


With an ever increasing spread between the haves and the have nots 2/3s of the children born today are going to be
faced with a very tough row to hoe.

There will be a correction but it won't be because of that IMO. When the baby boomers pull that money they will spend it all over the place. It will prop up the economy. The correct eill come after they move on and we get back to "normal" IMO.

 

[Brute 23]

I don't understand why people are adamantly against a private option? What harm would it do?

Tell me that. Why would it hurt to offer a private option for people like me?

 

[bball]

I don't understand why people are adamantly against a private option? What harm would it do?

Tell me that. Why would it hurt to offer a private option for people like me?

It wouldn't do any harm. It would simply permit independent, informed, intelligent people to have the option to invest their own money. BUT then again, it would remove some income from the SS funds, thereby hurting that govt 'managed' program that folks have so much trust and faith in; despite the fact we a pretty much can agree the govt has abused and/or misused it..at the very least. Big surprise too right? The fundamental problem with folks in this country is the high propensity to rely on govt to manage everything for us instead of taking personal responsibility for ourselves and those in our own families and communities. Each generation this mindset becomes even more engrained. Trade freedom, liberty, and personal responsibility for the 'safety and security' of govt assistance; despite the consistent poor decision making. Then of course, if you speak out against such things, you're a cold, heartless monster for expecting people to generally make an effort to take care of their ownselves, be responsible and accountable, and plan. A few reasons the average American can't manage their own finances? Not taught well in public schools? not taught or displayed at home? The perpetuation of a self satisfying lifestyle with no consideration for the long term impacts? See it constantly in healthcare, retirements, and such? Its all around us. Tooo many folks expecting big brother to save them from their own poor decision making or lack of willingness to prepare or sacrifice. It can't continue like this..and it wont.

 

[Brute 23]

:clap: You are exactly right bball.

 

[True Grit Farms]

I don't understand why people are adamantly against a private option? What harm would it do?

Tell me that. Why would it hurt to offer a private option for people like me?

Where's the money going to come from to pay my SS then? You owe me what I paid in, like I owed those American's before me.
Brute, you seem quite selfish in your thinking. I don't begrudge the handicap, disabled and those that worked and paid into SS a check. If you took those who were freeloaders and deadbeats their whole lives, and the people that fraudulently collect SS because their disabled or handicapped we'd have a surplus of money.

 

[JSCATTLE]

To many freeloaders getting ss checks to go e us the option to opt out . If I had the chance I'd opt out in a heart beat . My main reason is I could pass down what I saved and made to my kids . As it is now I probably won't see a dime of the money I put into the corrupt system. I have a pension and max my 401k and Roth every year. Another 7 percent would go along way. I'm cold hearted but someone else's bad life decisions doesn't constitute me helping them out. Everyone has or had the same opportunities as I did growing up . It's not on me to take care of someone because they pissed their life away.

 

[Brute 23]

To many freeloaders getting ss checks to go e us the option to opt out . If I had the chance I'd opt out in a heart beat . My main reason is I could pass down what I saved and made to my kids . As it is now I probably won't see a dime of the money I put into the corrupt system. I have a pension and max my 401k and Roth every year. Another 7 percent would go along way. I'm cold hearted but someone else's bad life decisions doesn't constitute me helping them out. Everyone has or had the same opportunities as I did growing up . It's not on me to take care of someone because they be nice their life away.

:clap:

I'll be the first one in line to donate to the handicap or those who need it but it's my money and I should be able to hand it out as I see fit... Not the government.

 

[True Grit Farms]

To many freeloaders getting ss checks to go e us the option to opt out . If I had the chance I'd opt out in a heart beat . My main reason is I could pass down what I saved and made to my kids . As it is now I probably won't see a dime of the money I put into the corrupt system. I have a pension and max my 401k and Roth every year. Another 7 percent would go along way. I'm cold hearted but someone else's bad life decisions doesn't constitute me helping them out. Everyone has or had the same opportunities as I did growing up . It's not on me to take care of someone because they be nice their life away.

:clap:

I'll be the first one in line to donate to the handicap or those who need it but it's my money and I should be able to hand it out as I see fit... Not the government.

I don't need your money, or the governments. But I've paid into SS for 48 years and would like to get some of my TAX money back...God willing. In my mind SS is just another TAX placed upon the working person.

 

[Brute 23]

What makes me mad is the government doesn't just make a line item on your taxes that says "welfare" or X per cent to the needy. They try to hide it and screw up good programs like SS by piggy backing welfare programs in them.

The government purposely hides and slides in all this stuff so the average person doesn't know whats going on. It's just really not that complicated to tell the truth... The problem is they have to work hard to hide the mess and deception.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't understand why people are adamantly against a private option? What harm would it do?

Tell me that. Why would it hurt to offer a private option for people like me?

Where's the money going to come from to pay my SS then? You owe me what I paid in, like I owed those American's before me.
Brute, you seem quite selfish in your thinking. I don't begrudge the handicap, disabled and those that worked and paid into SS a check. If you took those who were freeloaders and deadbeats their whole lives, and the people that fraudulently collect SS because their disabled or handicapped we'd have a surplus of money.

"Ponzi scheme
A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation where the operator, an individual or organization, pays returns to its investors from new capital paid to the operators by new investors, rather than from profit earned through legitimate sources." Social Security sure seems to fit into that explanation. Does it not? I can't see where one generation owes the next a retirement simply because they were ripped off and had to pay for a past generation.