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True Grit Farms

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The NYT is fake news, and definitely anti POTUS. Proposed cap on 401k is all hear say so far. Wall Street is playing for another bailout down the road.
 
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boondocks

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Well, TG thinks the Times is biased (despite the fact they broke the Clinton email story and are widely blamed for supporting W's Iraq forays) so I included a reference to the right-wing Post. Not saying I trust it as a source, just showing that the news that an ultra-low 401k cap is under consideration is being widely reported.
 
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boondocks

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Caustic Burno":3afcrmqb said:
There is already a cap on 401K today of 18K as tax deferred.
IRA is 6500.

The cap they are discussing is as low as $2400/yr, to push people into immediately-taxable Roths and thereby bump up revenue short-term, to pay for the biz tax cuts.
 

Jogeephus

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I think we'd all be better off if Washington stayed out of our affairs. Both parties. Don't know how many people recall when Newt Gingrich was pushing for dissolving social security and giving us our money back so we could invest in the stock market. Said it would be better for us. Fast forward several months and the stock market crashed primarily because of poor decisions those in Washington allowed the banks to get by with. Maybe I'm paranoid but I think they saw this coming and this was just a way to kick the can down the road and had we been given our social security funds to invest this would have only delayed the inevitable and we all would have been screwed while those in the know would have walked away smiling.
 

Brute 23

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Jogeephus":1ppj52f6 said:
I think we'd all be better off if Washington stayed out of our affairs. Both parties. Don't know how many people recall when Newt Gingrich was pushing for dissolving social security and giving us our money back so we could invest in the stock market. Said it would be better for us. Fast forward several months and the stock market crashed primarily because of poor decisions those in Washington allowed the banks to get by with. Maybe I'm paranoid but I think they saw this coming and this was just a way to kick the can down the road and had we been given our social security funds to invest this would have only delayed the inevitable and we all would have been screwed while those in the know would have walked away smiling.

That would have been the best thing to ever happen if he would have gotten it passed. You would have only lost money if you would have sold in the down turn. You would have made a butt load more as it came up if your Ss money had been in the stick market.

Social security is the biggest scam ever pulled on the American people. It makes me furious to even think about it. It's a welfare program that they disguise by giving every one a little of their money back.

I would let the government keep every dollar I have put in to just let me out of it and be able to put my money in the market going forward. :devil2: :devil2: :devil2: it is no different than obamacare. They should give us the option to opt out or do a self run plan in the market if we would like.

That's the govt slush fund and line of credit so they don't want to let the people be in charge of THEIR money.
 

Caustic Burno

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boondocks":1fdnk4qw said:
Caustic Burno":1fdnk4qw said:
There is already a cap on 401K today of 18K as tax deferred.
IRA is 6500.

The cap they are discussing is as low as $2400/yr, to push people into immediately-taxable Roths and thereby bump up revenue short-term, to pay for the biz tax cuts.


Business does not pay taxes they are collected from the consumer.
 

Jogeephus

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Brute 23":3cl8bj99 said:
Jogeephus":3cl8bj99 said:
I think we'd all be better off if Washington stayed out of our affairs. Both parties. Don't know how many people recall when Newt Gingrich was pushing for dissolving social security and giving us our money back so we could invest in the stock market. Said it would be better for us. Fast forward several months and the stock market crashed primarily because of poor decisions those in Washington allowed the banks to get by with. Maybe I'm paranoid but I think they saw this coming and this was just a way to kick the can down the road and had we been given our social security funds to invest this would have only delayed the inevitable and we all would have been screwed while those in the know would have walked away smiling.

That would have been the best thing to ever happen if he would have gotten it passed. You would have only lost money if you would have sold in the down turn. You would have made a butt load more as it came up if your Ss money had been in the stick market.

Social security is the biggest scam ever pulled on the American people. It makes me furious to even think about it. It's a welfare program that they disguise by giving every one a little of their money back.

I would let the government keep every dollar I have put in to just let me out of it and be able to put my money in the market going forward. :devil2: :devil2: :devil2: it is no different than obamacare. They should give us the option to opt out or do a self run plan in the market if we would like.

That's the govt slush fund and line of credit so they don't want to let the people be in charge of THEIR money.

I agree with most of what you said but I still think we need a safety net because many people don't know how to save and plan for their retirement and this was meant to just be a safety net. But what it was meant to be and what it has morphed into due to the meddling of politicians is a different thing. Like you say, they have just turned it into another piggy bank to rob from. Just imagine how sound social security would be if they just put the money in a safe place and let it draw interest. I think everyone would be better off. :2cents:
 

Brute 23

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Jogeephus":3vi46fx9 said:
Brute 23":3vi46fx9 said:
Jogeephus":3vi46fx9 said:
I think we'd all be better off if Washington stayed out of our affairs. Both parties. Don't know how many people recall when Newt Gingrich was pushing for dissolving social security and giving us our money back so we could invest in the stock market. Said it would be better for us. Fast forward several months and the stock market crashed primarily because of poor decisions those in Washington allowed the banks to get by with. Maybe I'm paranoid but I think they saw this coming and this was just a way to kick the can down the road and had we been given our social security funds to invest this would have only delayed the inevitable and we all would have been screwed while those in the know would have walked away smiling.

That would have been the best thing to ever happen if he would have gotten it passed. You would have only lost money if you would have sold in the down turn. You would have made a butt load more as it came up if your Ss money had been in the stick market.

Social security is the biggest scam ever pulled on the American people. It makes me furious to even think about it. It's a welfare program that they disguise by giving every one a little of their money back.

I would let the government keep every dollar I have put in to just let me out of it and be able to put my money in the market going forward. :devil2: :devil2: :devil2: it is no different than obamacare. They should give us the option to opt out or do a self run plan in the market if we would like.

That's the govt slush fund and line of credit so they don't want to let the people be in charge of THEIR money.

I agree with most of what you said but I still think we need a safety net because many people don't know how to save and plan for their retirement and this was meant to just be a safety net. But what it was meant to be and what it has morphed into due to the meddling of politicians is a different thing. Like you say, they have just turned it into another piggy bank to rob from. Just imagine how sound social security would be if they just put the money in a safe place and let it draw interest. I think everyone would be better off. :2cents:

They just have to set up accounts just like a Roth or 401K. Let the IRS audit it where you have to put money in and can not remove it with out proof of age, death, etc. It could easily be done and all the investment people would gladly bend over backwards to make it happen.

The govt does not want to turn over control of it. That should be the first sign some thing shady is going on.

It's not an investment, it's closer to an insurance policy provided by the govt, mandated by the government. That is the same thing they want to do with health care. They claim they have to control that also because we are not responsible enough to do it on our own.
 

Jogeephus

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I agree, its not an investment anymore and there is nothing in there because they spent it all. All it is now is a pyramid scheme but there should be money in there. Lots of it had it been done like it was supposed to have been done. I know some elderly people who really depend on this check and they don't have the presence of mind to invest and sadly there are some money managers that would prey on these people. I do see your point but I just don't think everyone is capable of doing this and some people need this help and I believe it would be good if they didn't rob from it.
 

Brute 23

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Why they limit the amount on your 401K does not make any sense at all. Let people put as much as they want in. Eventually the money will get spent and you will get to tax it. Stronger personal finance makes for a stronger economy as a whole.

The problem is our govt has a broke mentality. They think short term and hurt our whole economy long term.

They need to do away with all this stuff that is choking the American peope... social security, death taxes, limits on 401K, corporate taxes... all that stuff only hurts the middle class. The rich will be rich no matter the laws and the poor will be poor no matter the lawd... It's only the person try to better themselves that it hurts.
 

Brute 23

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Jogeephus":34olmnh6 said:
I agree, its not an investment anymore and there is nothing in there because they spent it all. All it is now is a pyramid scheme but there should be money in there. Lots of it had it been done like it was supposed to have been done. I know some elderly people who really depend on this check and they don't have the presence of mind to invest and sadly there are some money managers that would prey on these people. I do see your point but I just don't think everyone is capable of doing this and some people need this help and I believe it would be good if they didn't rob from it.

For sure. They could regulate what you invest in and such. That is how most 401Ks are.

... and they need to leave the option to do it just like it has been done, run by the govt, for years for people who don't want to change it.

There are ways to make it happen... if they want to do it. I think Bush also tried to do it.
 

Caustic Burno

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Jogeephus":2k5zjopn said:
Brute 23":2k5zjopn said:
Jogeephus":2k5zjopn said:
I think we'd all be better off if Washington stayed out of our affairs. Both parties. Don't know how many people recall when Newt Gingrich was pushing for dissolving social security and giving us our money back so we could invest in the stock market. Said it would be better for us. Fast forward several months and the stock market crashed primarily because of poor decisions those in Washington allowed the banks to get by with. Maybe I'm paranoid but I think they saw this coming and this was just a way to kick the can down the road and had we been given our social security funds to invest this would have only delayed the inevitable and we all would have been screwed while those in the know would have walked away smiling.

That would have been the best thing to ever happen if he would have gotten it passed. You would have only lost money if you would have sold in the down turn. You would have made a butt load more as it came up if your Ss money had been in the stick market.

Social security is the biggest scam ever pulled on the American people. It makes me furious to even think about it. It's a welfare program that they disguise by giving every one a little of their money back.

I would let the government keep every dollar I have put in to just let me out of it and be able to put my money in the market going forward. :devil2: :devil2: :devil2: it is no different than obamacare. They should give us the option to opt out or do a self run plan in the market if we would like.

That's the govt slush fund and line of credit so they don't want to let the people be in charge of THEIR money.

I agree with most of what you said but I still think we need a safety net because many people don't know how to save and plan for their retirement and this was meant to just be a safety net. But what it was meant to be and what it has morphed into due to the meddling of politicians is a different thing. Like you say, they have just turned it into another piggy bank to rob from. Just imagine how sound social security would be if they just put the money in a safe place and let it draw interest. I think everyone would be better off. :2cents:

Jo I listened to an economist one time
make a very profound statement that has stuck with me.
The majority of people can’t manage money he stated if you took every penny from everyone and started over giving everyone a thousand bucks.
Bill Gates would still be where he is at and the guy living under the over pass would still be there.
As far as SS it actually saves us money IMO with most elderly.
Without forcing the majority to save for their elderly years would be an even bigger burden on society IMO.
 

Jogeephus

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Caustic Burno":150fwna4 said:
As far as SS it actually saves us money IMO with most elderly.
Without forcing the majority to save for their elderly years would be an even bigger burden on society IMO.

That pretty well sums up my feelings.

My wife and I help a sweet old lady who is as ignorant as a sack of rocks when it comes to financial matters and I'd hate to think of what her situation would be like if she didn't have social security because her family has all but forgotten her. I'm not saying she is stupid by any means. She is not and she is a hard worker and has done everything from welding victory ships at the port in Brunswick during WW2 to helping the needy. She is truly an angel but she hasn't accumulated anything in this life but will surely be rewarded handsomely in heaven. It just pains me to think of what her life would be without her social security check and it pizzes me off to no end when I see politicians mess the program up or when I see the sorry low lifes make fictitious claims to draw undeserved checks.

I know SS has a lot of flaws but I truly believe we need some program to help people like her. She deserves it and she has worked for it and earned it.
 

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