4-H kids getting to show

[JHH]

Need to decide if 2 4-H kids get to show or not. They came to the regular meetings but not the beef leader meetings.

We had several meetings and the same ones showed up every time but these two NEVER did. Bylaws say that I can keep them from it but I dont really want to. I really think it is the parents that want them to show the animals and not the kids.

JHH

 

[cowgirl580+]

i say this from personal experience, you need to follow the bylaws. if you don't for these two, you will have to not do it for others that you might not get the warm and fuzzies for, ya know? i know its hard, i was in 4-H forever and on the council and president for all sorts of stuff, but it has to be done. good luck.

 

[msscamp]

Is this the end of the year show, if so, don't keep them from it. They have put in the the time and money into their projects and should'nt be kept from showing because of missing a meeting or two.

I disagree. These 2 kids knew going into it that part of the deal was to attend meetings and they have failed to do that - a big part of growing up has to do with realizing that actions (or a lack of action in this case) have consequences. I don't believe it's fair to the other kids who gave up their time and other activities to attend meetings, and I would have a major problem with these two being allowed to show if my kids were part of this 4-H group. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[Cabo]

I don't know all the circumstances involved, but there is no way that I'm going to argue with two females. :lol: :nod:

 

[Dayzee]

.

Being a mother of children who show and devote their time to caring, keeping and attending meetings I have to agree with msscamp on this one.

The children who have devoted their time in all areas should be rewarded not the ones who have slacked. It sometimes takes a teacher/leader to show children just how important things such as this is. Not that it is any fun for you to do, but could be a well learned lesson for the childrens future.

You do say a meeting or two....now if it was A meeting then I could understand...but 2 or more I would not.

.

 

[Hopeful Beginnings]

Hello all...I am not involved in 4H in any way....my daughter is only turning 8 this fall and although we have bottle raised lambs and goats, and raised pet chickens, rabbits, ducks, and just about everything else in the past, she is still too young to get involved in the group...looking forward to it in the future though....

Anyway...the reason I am bothering you is because I thought maybe you can point me in the direction of what we would need to do to raise a 4H calf if she were old enough.........we just got a calf (my thread is under the "Hi! I'm new here" and under "1st time cow owner bottle feeding 3-4 week old calf".

We want to start working with our calf as though we were gearing her towards 4H show....I am figuring it is going to be a good place for us to learn how to handle her (care, groom, train, lead, etc). We will probably raise her then breed her (and eat the babies--or whatever terminology you use for that concept! ). I'm not sure what breed requirements there are for 4H--I do not know what breed she is and she is not registered so I don't know if we will be able to use her baby when the time comes for 4H, but my daughter wants to raise her and breed her so we will see how that goes. We were told she is Angus, but I'm not sure it is true...I'm still trying to figure it out.....

So...if anyone can point me in the direction of finding handling information (4H requirements/manual?) I'd appreciate it....We really just want a "Pet Cow" but I don't think they make a book telling how to achieve that! :roll: Thanks bunches....Hopeful Beginnings

 

[Lammie]

I think that if the kids are young it is up to the parents to get them to the meetings. If it is the parents who want them to show and not the kids, then it seems that the parents would have made sure that they made it. But there might have been scheduling conflicts, work issues, or what not. But it seems that in every activity my kids are in, there is always a parent who will come get the kid if you have to work overtime or something.

Tough call. I do agree that if you make exceptions for some kids then you will have to make exceptions for every kid, but it is your call. I would look at the circumstances involved. If the kids want to show, I would let them. If the parents are b#ttheads about it, then, no.

I have found that most of the time, it is pushy parents. Too bad the kids get caught in the middle. How do the other parents feel about it? You have to give 100% for these things.

Personally, when I see kids with terrific animals, especially if they are very young, I wonder how much work they actually did on them and how much were parents. Helping and providing guidance is one thing. Living your life through your kids is another. Have seen it a lot, especially in sports.

 

[rkm]

Hopeful, contact your local extension office they can answer many of your questions. I think your daughter should be involved in 4H before the selection of a calf is made. It will save embaressment and disappointment.

 

[JHH]

Is this the end of the year show, if so, don't keep them from it. They have put in the the time and money into their projects and should'nt be kept from showing because of missing a meeting or two.

I disagree. These 2 kids knew going into it that part of the deal was to attend meetings and they have failed to do that - a big part of growing up has to do with realizing that actions (or a lack of action in this case) have consequences. I don't believe it's fair to the other kids who gave up their time and other activities to attend meetings, and I would have a major problem with these two being allowed to show if my kids were part of this 4-H group. Just my 2 cents worth.

Well I called a meeting of all the project leaders and the the club leader. We are going to discuss it tonight and I will see if they participated in any other project leader meetings.

These two kids were at every regular meeting but never attended one of my beef meetings. The club leader wants to not let them show their steers. I really would like to let them show but not get any premium money for any thing they won. I dont think NOT showing will upset the kids ( one is 15 and one is 16 ) but may ruffle a few feathers of the parents.

Does that sound fair to you guys??

P.S both of these kids drive and CAN get to the meetings if they wanted to, I even offered to pic them up and still didnt get them to show up.

 

[JHH]

Hello all...I am not involved in 4H in any way....my daughter is only turning 8 this fall and although we have bottle raised lambs and goats, and raised pet chickens, rabbits, ducks, and just about everything else in the past, she is still too young to get involved in the group...looking forward to it in the future though....

Anyway...the reason I am bothering you is because I thought maybe you can point me in the direction of what we would need to do to raise a 4H calf if she were old enough.........we just got a calf (my thread is under the "Hi! I'm new here" and under "1st time cow owner bottle feeding 3-4 week old calf".

We want to start working with our calf as though we were gearing her towards 4H show....I am figuring it is going to be a good place for us to learn how to handle her (care, groom, train, lead, etc). We will probably raise her then breed her (and eat the babies--or whatever terminology you use for that concept! ). I'm not sure what breed requirements there are for 4H--I do not know what breed she is and she is not registered so I don't know if we will be able to use her baby when the time comes for 4H, but my daughter wants to raise her and breed her so we will see how that goes. We were told she is Angus, but I'm not sure it is true...I'm still trying to figure it out.....

So...if anyone can point me in the direction of finding handling information (4H requirements/manual?) I'd appreciate it....We really just want a "Pet Cow" but I don't think they make a book telling how to achieve that! :roll: Thanks bunches....Hopeful Beginnings

Yes rkm is right just contact your local extension office. They should be able to help you. JHH

I also think that your daughter is eligable for clover kids ( a 4-H thing) which is where to start with her anyway.

Your pet cow can be shown but only as a crossbred or A.O.B. ( all other breeds) class. They have a class for just about everthing.

 

[Lammie]

At 15 or 16 they should be able to attend meetings. If they were 10 or 12, that would be different. By that age, they should be familiar with consequences of their actions. If they were really interested in showing, and they had a firm grasp of the rules about attending all meetings, which they should have, then I say that they don't really want to show. I don't think they should be allowed to do so and I think that if you told them that they could show as long as they didn't get to keep their premium monies, then they won't be interested.

It is like band or baseball or any other activity at that age. You better have a good reason and whoever is hosting the meetings should be informed ahead of time or you don't get to participate in activities.

My son was always in band and there were some kids who had to work, mine included. The teacher would go as far as talking to employers to see if arrangements could be made to switch hours so that kids could attend practice. But the kid had to make the teacher aware of his or her work schedule and try to work something out on their own. Usually, the businesses that employed these kids knew that they were in activities, they want to employ them because they are usually dependable and good students, and they would try to work around practices, games and contests. But the kids who really didn't want to attend practices would find any excuse to do so and were consequently denied the priviledge to participate in outings, contests or "fun stuff" if they could not make practices. Not to mention that their grade suffered.

They are old enough to understand. I would be prepared for angry parents, though. I think that is part of the problem anymore. Every kid is a "winner" no matter what kind of effort he or she puts out. Everyone gets a trophy. I guess that is one of the good things about 4-H. There are still winners and losers.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Rules are rules, but what the heck is a beef meeting? This is starting to sound like a personal issue. The kids were at every "regular" meeting but not at YOUR beef meeting. I don't get that. I was in 4H, FFA (30 years ago) and never heard of any "Beef" meeting. Nor "dairy" meeting etc.

4H rules are rules. Kids need to follow the rules and they need to learn no one is above the law. Some times that is a hard lesson but a good one nevertheless.

If this "Beef Meeting" thing is some local something outside of normal 4H guise, maybe they should join a different chapter. Afterall, they did attend all "normal" meetings.

 

[cowgirl580+]

i've heard of beef meetings. its a recent thing. if they did not attend a beef meeting, then they can not show. they've added stuff to the by laws here saying you have to attend at least 2 community council meetings in addition to your regular club meetings. not all are the same, but they should still ahve to follow the rules. what does that teach them if they don't and you don't?

 

[Dave]

It is a tough one. Rules are rules. On the other hand they attended all the regular meetings and I tend to go out of my way to include any kid I can rather than kick them out. If you don't let them show will they continue with 4-H? if not what will they be doing with their time. At the very least I would sit them down and explain to them the position they have put you into. That will give you an idea on where their heads are at.

 

[rwilliams]

let them show, if they really want to.heck they make all the regular meetings and you dont remember being 15 or 16 and having other activities.did you ask why they didnt attend?

 

[JHH]

Rules are rules, but what the heck is a beef meeting? This is starting to sound like a personal issue. The kids were at every "regular" meeting but not at YOUR beef meeting. I don't get that. I was in 4H, FFA (30 years ago) and never heard of any "Beef" meeting. Nor "dairy" meeting etc.

4H rules are rules. Kids need to follow the rules and they need to learn no one is above the law. Some times that is a hard lesson but a good one nevertheless.

If this "Beef Meeting" thing is some local something outside of normal 4H guise, maybe they should join a different chapter. Afterall, they did attend all "normal" meetings.

The beef meetings are held by the beef leader (me) and the regular meetings are held each month by the club leader.

The beef meetings are held to HELP the kids and get them on the right track with their animals. Try to help with nutrition, halter breaking, ect.

The kids who showed up got some stuff to. We all made neck ropes, and rope halters and worked on the trimming part ( fitting) with a halter broke heifer. ( I supplied everthing and the kids enjoyed it I think )

I have two more kids who are really into it now and are really doing a good job. They are planning to go to state fair.

JHH

 

[msscamp]

Is this the end of the year show, if so, don't keep them from it. They have put in the the time and money into their projects and should'nt be kept from showing because of missing a meeting or two.

I disagree. These 2 kids knew going into it that part of the deal was to attend meetings and they have failed to do that - a big part of growing up has to do with realizing that actions (or a lack of action in this case) have consequences. I don't believe it's fair to the other kids who gave up their time and other activities to attend meetings, and I would have a major problem with these two being allowed to show if my kids were part of this 4-H group. Just my 2 cents worth.

These two kids were at every regular meeting but never attended one of my beef meetings. The club leader wants to not let them show their steers. I really would like to let them show but not get any premium money for any thing they won. I dont think NOT showing will upset the kids ( one is 15 and one is 16 ) but may ruffle a few feathers of the parents.

Does that sound fair to you guys??

P.S both of these kids drive and CAN get to the meetings if they wanted to, I even offered to pic them up and still didnt get them to show up.

It does not matter if I think it's fair or unfair, what matters is the fact that the rest of the kids attended both the regular meetings and the beef meetings, thereby earning the right to show - these two did not, nor (from the sounds of it) did they provide an acceptable reason for their failure to attend. Have you thought about what kind of a message you would be sending, both to the kids that abided by the rules and those who will join next year, if you allow these two to show despite their failure to abide by the rules?

 

[JHH]

Well I just got back from the meeting and they get to show.

The meeting went well, the parents of the two kids were there and all went ok I thought.

Both of the kids will NOT be in 4-H next year, that is what the parents said. They have lost interest and want to do other stuff (sports) which is great. The parents really wanted the kids to be involved but the kids dont want to be.

Both parents said they have not been working with the steers and dont know if they can get them broke by fair time ( JULY 8 ) I had even offered to help if I could earlier but they dont want any help.

JHH

 

[Lammie]

That is kinda what I figured. It sounded like they had lost interest.

 

[certherfbeef]

Well I just got back from the meeting and they get to show.

The meeting went well, the parents of the two kids were there and all went ok I thought.

Both of the kids will NOT be in 4-H next year, that is what the parents said. They have lost interest and want to do other stuff (sports) which is great. The parents really wanted the kids to be involved but the kids dont want to be.

Both parents said they have not been working with the steers and dont know if they can get them broke by fair time ( JULY 8 ) I had even offered to help if I could earlier but they dont want any help.

JHH

Sounds to me like those calves will be a hazard at the fair if they are not broke. I would have made them stay home...for the sake of the animal and the innocent bystanders.
Nothing worse than an animal tied up at the fail all week with no one to take interest in cleaning the stall or makeing that animal look it's best.
IMO, the parents are the ones wanting the animals at the fair...not the kids and something should be done. Someone should step up and be an adult.