4-h calf

[chippie]

At Fort Worth, the exhibitors get all the money (maybe less a small deduction for sale expenses). I'm not sure about Dallas (those are 2 separate shows - Dallas in early October, FW in late January/early February). Houston is the show with the notoriously large sale figures where the exhibitors share is capped - the remaining money goes into scholarship funds, and most of that doesn't go back to exhibitors, but to Houston city youth. You can debate the fairness of that from now on - personally, I don't agree with it, but the show stays huge because premium sale monies paid to exhibitors are still very good.

I won't argue with anyone that some of these very high premiums are too much. The shows (and the people and business' that support them) seem to have their own contest going about who can raise/spend the most money. The more money that's there, the more money people will spend trying to win it. But that doesn't make the whole program bad - most of the kids still do most of their own work. They're learning about raising animals, about feeding and daily care and about how hard work pays off and how not putting effort into something costs. They learn that market animals are raised for food, and that's where they all go in the end (no matter how much they love 'em). They learn about making breeding decisions, calving, animal health, and life and death. Just because they (may) get more than market price for their projects in the end, don't think they didn't have to pay more for them to begin with or that they get by feeding creep pellets and hay. That's not to mention entry fees and traveling costs. And the ones that don't make those premium sales still just bring market price. It's a money making proposition for very, very few. For almost all, it's a family affair - an activity to spend time together, keep the kids involved in something constructive, and have a learning experience along the way. There's nothing wrong with that.

Now please tell me where you heard that (the comment in red).

Here is the schedule of guaranteed payment for the Houston Livestock Show. http://www.rodeohouston.com/Livesto...s/JuniorMarketAuctions/GuaranteedPayment.aspx

If you notice on the payout schedule, HLSR pays exhibitors who placed in their class in all of the shows. Granted, there are caps on the Grand and Reserve.
Champions, and the extra money goes towards paying scholarships . This year HLSR gave 735 scholarships to Texas Youth each worth $18,000. That is $13,230,000.

http://www.rodeohouston.com/AboutUs/EducationalSupport.aspx#215392-scholarships

HLSR supports all Youth. And what it accomplishes is because of its' volunteers. Another thing, the event is not free to put on. The cost is high. HLSR leases the facilities from Harris County. They don't get to use it for free, and the utilities are not free either.

I can tell you something else. Not all of the kids winning come from wealthy families. Last year a girl in our 4-H club won her class with her steer. She worked hard and deserved it. Her dad did not spend 5 figures on the steer.
There are good kids out there who work hard and win. They deserve it. It's sad that people don't remember the good kids and their parents, only the bad ones.

 

[bigbull338]

i sold a show calf to a young man thats in FFA.he went to 3 calf scrambles houston fort worth san antone.he caught a calf in all 3.he used that money to buy his show calf.he will show her in all 3 shows plus the texas state fair in sept or oct.

 

[chippie]

i sold a show calf to a young man thats in FFA.he went to 3 calf scrambles houston fort worth san antone.he caught a calf in all 3.he used that money to buy his show calf.he will show her in all 3 shows plus the texas state fair in sept or oct.

a lot!!!!

 

[DLD]

At Fort Worth, the exhibitors get all the money (maybe less a small deduction for sale expenses). I'm not sure about Dallas (those are 2 separate shows - Dallas in early October, FW in late January/early February). Houston is the show with the notoriously large sale figures where the exhibitors share is capped - the remaining money goes into scholarship funds, and most of that doesn't go back to exhibitors, but to Houston city youth. You can debate the fairness of that from now on - personally, I don't agree with it, but the show stays huge because premium sale monies paid to exhibitors are still very good.

I won't argue with anyone that some of these very high premiums are too much. The shows (and the people and business' that support them) seem to have their own contest going about who can raise/spend the most money. The more money that's there, the more money people will spend trying to win it. But that doesn't make the whole program bad - most of the kids still do most of their own work. They're learning about raising animals, about feeding and daily care and about how hard work pays off and how not putting effort into something costs. They learn that market animals are raised for food, and that's where they all go in the end (no matter how much they love 'em). They learn about making breeding decisions, calving, animal health, and life and death. Just because they (may) get more than market price for their projects in the end, don't think they didn't have to pay more for them to begin with or that they get by feeding creep pellets and hay. That's not to mention entry fees and traveling costs. And the ones that don't make those premium sales still just bring market price. It's a money making proposition for very, very few. For almost all, it's a family affair - an activity to spend time together, keep the kids involved in something constructive, and have a learning experience along the way. There's nothing wrong with that.

Now please tell me where you heard that (the comment in red).

Here is the schedule of guaranteed payment for the Houston Livestock Show. http://www.rodeohouston.com/Livesto...s/JuniorMarketAuctions/GuaranteedPayment.aspx

If you notice on the payout schedule, HLSR pays exhibitors who placed in their class in all of the shows. Granted, there are caps on the Grand and Reserve.
Champions, and the extra money goes towards paying scholarships . This year HLSR gave 735 scholarships to Texas Youth each worth $18,000. That is $13,230,000.

http://www.rodeohouston.com/AboutUs/EducationalSupport.aspx#215392-scholarships

HLSR supports all Youth. And what it accomplishes is because of its' volunteers. Another thing, the event is not free to put on. The cost is high. HLSR leases the facilities from Harris County. They don't get to use it for free, and the utilities are not free either.

I can tell you something else. Not all of the kids winning come from wealthy families. Last year a girl in our 4-H club won her class with her steer. She worked hard and deserved it. Her dad did not spend 5 figures on the steer.
There are good kids out there who work hard and win. They deserve it. It's sad that people don't remember the good kids and their parents, only the bad ones.

Chippie, I'm not the enemy - no one loves this program any more than I do.

I know how much work, and money it takes to put these things on. I've been deeply involved in showing cattle my whole life. I've been on all sides of it - exhibitor, parent, ag teacher, judge... I raise show calves and sometimes I trade them, too. I've managed shows and I've shoveled crap, and done everything in between. Often several of those at once - I know you prob'ly have, too.

Please back up to the part right before you highlighted - I said the remaining money after the exhibitors get their share. I'm not against helping all youth, but I'll admit that I don't like that money raised in a premium sale goes to benefit anyone other than exhibitors. I'm not going to apologize for that. I probably shouldn't say anything because I don't live in Texas, but I have lots of family and friends that do, and they all participate in the Texas junior livestock programs.

I'm not about buying (or selling) five figure prospects either. But you know as well as I do that there are very, very few, if any steers making those state (or even county) premium sales that were bought for market price - I was just trying to illustrate that those kids selling a steer in a premium sale for say $5000 aren't making a killing. I'm quite proud of the fact that a steer I raised was a class winner at Houston this year for a good, hard working family. That family drove 6 hours to get here, and bought an unbroken, unclipped steer for about double sale barn price. I sold a second place steer at San Antonio this year too - same kind of deal. Or even better, one of my niece's boys had a second place steer at Houston this year with one they bred and raised themselves. I'm glad that there are still people that can get along doing it this way, but it doesn't make those that are spending more money wrong, either. IMO, we're raising kids first, livestock second.

 

[Nesikep]

I'm just against "big money" getting involved in anything, it always distorts reality. Like Tamarack said, $90,000 for a darned steer?... a good 50 times more than market value? what kind of lesson is that for ALL kids (not just the winning kid)... To me it makes it sounds like the lesson is "you gotta have money to make money" or "it's not what you know but who you know".. Now I don't know the details of the kids who showed this animal, perhaps it was all their work, and they worked really hard at it... great, but for all the other kids who also worked hard (I'm going to go out on a limb and say there were a bunch of them) that got market value for their animal, it's a bit disheartening...

To the buyer, I'd say why not bid $10,000 each on 9 animals... make a bunch of hard working kids happy.

This whole thing just screams of elitism to me somehow.

 

[chippie]

DLD,

I want to know where you heard that the leftover money goes to only Houston City Youth. HLSR helps youth and youth related organizations all over the state.
Houston Youth are not singled out.

The more who are helped, the better.

 

[DLD]

I've heard it for years from Texas families that show there... Yeah, I know, but it's definitely the impression that many exhibitors and their families are, or at least were under. They may know that the scholarship money goes all over, but are still unhappy that it's being used to benefit youth other than exhibitors, so it's the point they choose to gripe about.

My own son got a nice scholarship from the Tulsa State Fair, and we're very grateful for that. But they don't keep enough of their premium sale money to fund those scholarships (we've been fortunate enough to be in that premium sale), and only youth that have participated in the fair in some capacity are eligible for those scholarships - same goes for OYE.

I understand your point of view, but you need to understand that many exhibitors and their families and others that support your show feel that monies raised in a premium sale for junior livestock exhibitors should be spent only for the benefit of junior livestock exhibitors. You don't have to agree with it, but it is how many people feel about it.

 

[DLD]

I'm just against "big money" getting involved in anything, it always distorts reality. Like Tamarack said, $90,000 for a darned steer?... a good 50 times more than market value? what kind of lesson is that for ALL kids (not just the winning kid)... To me it makes it sounds like the lesson is "you gotta have money to make money" or "it's not what you know but who you know".. Now I don't know the details of the kids who showed this animal, perhaps it was all their work, and they worked really hard at it... great, but for all the other kids who also worked hard (I'm going to go out on a limb and say there were a bunch of them) that got market value for their animal, it's a bit disheartening...

To the buyer, I'd say why not bid $10,000 each on 9 animals... make a bunch of hard working kids happy.

This whole thing just screams of elitism to me somehow.

Nesi, I agree - especially this part

To the buyer, I'd say why not bid $10,000 each on 9 animals... make a bunch of hard working kids happy.