3wk 4H dairy calf bloating on bottle

[milkmaid]

I'm about 99% convinced that the bloat isn't caused by anything that therabloat will fix. Therabloat is designed to cure frothy bloat caused by eating alfalfa or clover, and the bloat should disappear within 15 minutes after treatment. Mineral oil (or soap, for that matter!) will do the same thing and be much cheaper. Given the amount of time... you'd probably find the bloat will go away in 2-3 hours if you do nothing, too.

My tenative guess is that the bloat is caused by an overgrowth of some organism in the calf's digestive system.
#1: that would also explain the vet's recommending antibiotics.
#2: a bacterial overgrowth is likely since you mentioned the calf had scours.

Check with your husband to see what antibiotic you're using, and it'll give a better idea of what organism the vet suspects.

 

[Alice]

We haven't given her any hay - we were told not to at a 4H meeting since it has no value since her rumen is not up and working well yet. They say not to give hay until they are weaned and on grain.

If the baby was out in the field with its mama, it would be eating hay right along side its mama, and grazing grass right along side its mama. I'm sure there are lots of schools of thought on it, but personally, especially at three weeks of age and a bloating problem, I'd have hay for that baby. But again, that's just me and just what I've always done.

Did the people with 4H happen to say if eating the hay would be dangerous to the baby? If so, I'd really like to know more about that...I wouldn't agree with them...but I'd like to know more about it.

Alice

 

[slusser]

No, hay is not dangerous, just not necessary. Grain is more necessary to get the flora in the rumen started.

The calves are outside during the day (we have 3 but only one with bloat) and they do graze a tiny bit on the green pasture grass that is just coming up. Here in Idaho we are still not sure spring is on it's way

 

[milkmaid]

As far as hay... I prefer to get them started on grain before offering hay, as a calf's natural inclination is to eat hay and they'll leave the grain untouched. Calf must be eating grain before you can wean her. The main reason for pushing calves to eat grain is that they need grain if they're going to gain weight. You'd have one pot-bellied calf if she were just on hay, as it doesn't have enough nutrition in small enough amounts to meet her daily needs. That said, hay will help stimulate development of the rumen, and while it may not have much nutritional value at this stage, a calf needs hay/grass to help digest grain - they're not designed to eat only concentrates. Hay is important for a calf, but you don't need to give much as it won't meet her nutritional needs, its only purpose is to help get that digestive tract working so you can wean her.

 

[milkmaid]

Where are you at in Idaho? (I suspect it's not my SE corner of the state as we have some 2+ feet of snow still, LOL.)

 

[slusser]

Rupert, South Central near Burley and 45 miles east of Twin Falls - we awoke to three inches of snow yesterday but it has already melted - yea!

 

[milkmaid]

My vet used to travel down that way once a week to the big dairies. Y'all are a bit warmer down there... my cows will be seeing green grass around May. :lol: Home for me is Rexburg area.

 

[slusser]

Antibiotic or med is excenal 2cc every am. NO bloat this am after 3pts water and then 8 oz milk in 4 pts water an hour later. Yea! We will make our lunch time feeding smaller - 8 oz mr with 2 pts water and see if she bloats.

 

[slusser]

Update gave 8oz MR this afternoon with 2 pts water and still no bloat. I think we are making progress!!

 

[milkmaid]

Good to hear the calf's doing better.

Excenel's an odd drug to use for this. How long did your vet suggest keeping her on it?

Out of curiousity, did you get her direct from one of the dairies, or from the Jerome sale?

 

[slusser]

She will be on it 5 days total.

We bought her from a local organic dairy that sells newborns to the 4H kids. That way we don't have to find our own calf. They are very generous and give the kids a good deal.

 

[milkmaid]

Horizon? or the smaller dairy near it (can't remember their name)?

There were a few dairies that got together way back when I was in 4H and put together a nice lot of heifers for the 4Hers on the eastern side of the state... very generous of them and helped me tremendously. Kinda hard to do a dairy project when your folks don't have a dairy and no one will sell holstein heifers. :lol:

 

[slusser]

Yep, Horizon - they are great to those of us that are not ranchers or dairies - I don't know how else my kids would have gotten their calves.

Bad news though - she is bloated again after tonight's meal - 8 oz MR + 3 pts water. She is not huge/tight but looks like she ate a beach ball. We are going to set her sleep it off and try again tomorrow. It's getting really frustrating.

 

[JRM]

I will just throw this out. I had a calf who mother did not make it, I been bottle feeding it for 5 weeks now and it is doing good. What I did after one week is start adding calf mana in the milk replacement. I would put it in a blender and make sorta a shake out of it and feed it in bottle. I slowly reduced milk and increased calf mana. Only problem I had is when I did not get the calf mana chopped up fine enough and he had a little problem sucking it out of the bottle. Calf has done good and no signs of scours at all.
only other problem i am having now is getting him to eat dry grain, he will nibble at green grass and hay, but has little interst in dry calf mana or calf starter
best of luck on your calf

 

[slusser]

She was still bloated this am before even feeding her. Just checked on her and the bloat has not increased even after feeding. Have a call into the vet to see if there is something else we should be doing. Today was the last day of meds. I am thinking maybe we should still give her probios every day to get everything working right.

 

[milkmaid]

Keep in mind probiotics won't do her a bit of good while she's on antibiotics, as the antibiotics will kill off the good bacteria almost as fast as you can put 'em into the calf.

My thoughts... you may well have an overgrowth of clostridium in that calf. Your vet probably suspects the same thing since s/he gave you antibiotics for her. Give your vet a call and get his/her thoughts on treating with a combination of penicillin (or LA200 even) and oral sulfas (my preference would be SMZ/TMPs 800/160 double strength). Your plan of attack with this combination would be to totally rid her digestive tract of "everything", good and bad bacteria alike. 2-3 days should do it, and then you take her off antibiotics and load her up with probiotics for several days to re-establish a healthy population of good bacteria in her gut. With cattle, you end up feeding the bacteria rather than feeding the calf. :lol:

 

[slusser]

She is very bloated now, can't get ahold of the vet, won't take a bottle with anything in it. Any good ideas? She is tight and you can hear things sloshing around. Help!

 

[Alice]

Can you run a slim tube/piece of tube down her throat and into her stomach to release the gas? Needs to be pretty long. And, get hold of the 4H people and see if they'll come help ya' out with that.

Alice

 

[slusser]

Vet finally called - we tubed her and gave her 2c oil. Waited 2 hours and nothing changed so tubed and 2c more. We are waiting another hour or two and seeing how she is doing. We have to check back in with the vet then. I've never tubed a calf before. It was easier than I thought but still not something I really enjoy. I'll let you know how she is in a while. Thanks!

 

[milkmaid]

2cc's oil?

Thinkin' you need a bit more than that to be effective. Can't find a decent label online right now that tells me the standard dosage, but I think for a 400lb calf I use 1-2oz (30-60cc's). Again, bloat should subside in about 15 minutes, if not, retreat.