300 WSM

[mnmtranching]

Mike, just say your off 250 yards. You have a 6 pt bull elk broad side chance of a lifetime OK? You have a clear shot at the shoulder.

The 300 mag will penetrate the shoulder blade and you will have a clean kill. The 243 sorry, wounded elk.

Another one? Any elk running straight away. [I wouldn't take this shot] But many do. The 300 win will drop it dead, the 243 sorry.

More :?:

Oh by the way, I've been hunting elk for 40+ years :oops:

 

[MikeC]

Mike, just say your off 250 yards. You have a 6 pt bull elk broad side chance of a lifetime OK? You have a clear shot at the shoulder.

The 300 mag will penetrate the shoulder blade and you will have a clean kill. The 243 sorry, wounded elk.

Another one? Any elk running straight away. [I wouldn't take this shot] But many do. The 300 win will drop it dead, the 243 sorry.

Maybe, Maybe not. If I didn't think my round would down him I wouldn't shoot.

If your elk might get away with a 300 (as you stated earlier) why don't you just go ahead and get you a 50 cal?

Then you can make all the mistakes or bad shots you want and still bring home your game? :lol:

Lot's of people hunt with bows..... and game have a tendency to get away from them because it's inherent that arrows don't kill game as easily as guns do.

They do it because it's a challenge.

Same way with me. I like smaller rounds that sometimes need closer but more careful shots.

It's a challenge and I know my limitations just like the others on here who used a .243 on elk.

By the way, we shoot a lot of whitetails with a .223.

A lot of them. ;-)

 

[mnmtranching]

Mike, just say your off 250 yards. You have a 6 pt bull elk broad side chance of a lifetime OK? You have a clear shot at the shoulder.

The 300 mag will penetrate the shoulder blade and you will have a clean kill. The 243 sorry, wounded elk.

Another one? Any elk running straight away. [I wouldn't take this shot] But many do. The 300 win will drop it dead, the 243 sorry.

Maybe, Maybe not. If I didn't think my round would down him I wouldn't shoot.

If your elk might get away with a 300 (as you stated earlier) why don't you just go ahead and get you a 50 cal?

Then you can make all the mistakes or bad shots you want and still bring home your game? :lol:

Lot's of people hunt with bows..... and game have a tendency to get away from them because it's inherent that arrows don't kill game as easily as guns do.

They do it because it's a challenge.

Same way with me. I like smaller rounds that sometimes need closer but more careful shots.

It's a challenge and I know my limitations just like the others on here who used a .243 on elk.

By the way, we shoot a lot of whitetails with a .223.

A lot of them. ;-)

Yup, I'm OK with that.

 

[AngusLimoX]

By the way, we shoot a lot of whitetails with a .223.

A lot of them. ;-)

Why not use a .22 LR on deer, lots been killed with one? More of a challenge.

Why not recommend a .223 for Elk? More of a challenge.

I have no problem with it, as long as game don't pay the price for you being challenged.

ALX

 

[MikeC]

By the way, we shoot a lot of whitetails with a .223.

A lot of them. ;-)

Why not use a .22 LR on deer, lots been killed with one? More of a challenge.

Why not recommend a .223 for Elk? More of a challenge.

I have no problem with it, as long as game don't pay the price for you being challenged.

ALX

I know of several deer that been taken with a .22 LR (only not feasible generally because they utilize lead unjacketed bullets)and also know of several that got away with the reckless use of a 30-06, among other "bigger" cartridges.

No one is recommending anything.

I just don't fall into the "Bigger is Better" category when it comes to hunting guns.

I would venture to say that more game has "paid the price" from improper shot placement than have from the under utilization of proper terminal ballistics.

When Nosler first came out with the "partition" bullets several years ago, I kept hearing and saw a lot of guys who were using them, and knew for a fact that these guys were putting them in the proper place, but were losing lots of deer for some reason with even the larger caliber guns.

Come to find out, through my own and others' inquiries, these controlled expansion bullets without enough velocity were just punching a pencil sized hole through the game even when they got into some bone. When this happened, there was little blood loss and/or lung damage allowing the deer to run a heck of a ways off before collapsing.

Changing to lighter bullets (which gave more velocity) and using the easier expanding bullets gave much more of a hydraulic shock effect inside the carcass eliminated many of these problems.

It is my own theory that using the proper bullet with the proper velocity for the job at hand at is even more important than the caliber used.

Sorry to be rambling, but this is a passionate subject that I spent a lot of time on back in the soybean days.

This sorta reminds me of the "Myth Busters" show where they were shooting into a pool of water to see which bullet would travel the farthest distance under water. They kept going up in caliber and found out that the smaller bullets went just as deep as the larger ones................


Again, I apologize for rambling..................

 

[Dave]

I find it interesting that when I started elk hunting in 1963 the most common rifles seen up in the hills were 30-30 and 300 Savage. There was a scattering of 30-06 and 270, and those guys were thought to be very well armed. Scopes were somewhere between rare and none. And I guarantee you those old boys killed a lot of elk. I have the rifle my great uncle used to feed his family for years (and they ate a lot of elk). It is a 30-40 Krag. That old gun has probably killed more elk than any one person on this board.
Now, today the 06 and 270 are border line small and the 30-30 is way too small. Some of the shoulder cannons people pack to hunt elk were designed for elephant hunting. Did elk get that much tougher in the last 40 years?
And as I stated earlier, if you live in elk country it is easier to pass up a bad shot. It takes me one gallon of gas and a few minutes of free time to go elk hunting. A person who drives half way across the country, buys out of state permits, and takes a week or two off work has a lot more invested. They are under a lot more pressure to get one and have a lot less chances than a local.

 

[MikeC]

Now Dave, you do know that if the gun companies didn't come out with a bigger and better cartridge every few years that they wouldn't be making the money they do?????????????????

:lol:

They follow the sales trends. I remember back in the early 90's when I had a 7MM STW built, I just KNEW that none of the gunmakers' were gonna chamber this monstrosity for the public. :oops: Little did I know..................

 

[mnmtranching]

Dave, That's something like saying you would rather be driving your 63 pick up instead of your 07 turbo charged diesel.
There were also a lot of elk killed with the flintlock.
There are more elk now than there were when the old boys used the open sites. Are they wilder? Now it seems you got to be able to shoot out across a canyon 400 yards or so.

I'm not talking about archery or muzzleloader seasons [done that to] That's done early during the rut. Elk are totally different critters when rutting. That old 30-30 would be great if you could use it during the rut. :D

 

[Dave]

Seasons vary of course depending on where you are, but here is Washington elk season has been early November for as long as I can remember. That is long after the rut. Actually in my part of western Washington there are more elk than ever.
When I see an elk 400 yards across a canyon I do the same thing those old timers did. I figure out how to get closer. I consider myself a hunter, not a sniper. There is a pretty small percentage of hunter who have any business shooting at an elk at 400 yards.

 

[mnmtranching]

Dave SW Washington huh? Sounds like some purty heavy cover :shock: Not as easy to sneak in the Rockies. And 400 yards is not that tough a shot for modern firearms. Have you ever hunted open country Mule Deer? or antelope? I think if I hunted with a 30-40 with open sites I would be trying to get close. And nothing wrong with that, but it's just not a open country gun.

 

[Dave]

Yep, Western Washington can have some pretty thick cover. We also have clear cuts that go forever. There is a lot more feed in those clear cuts than in the timber so the edges of those are where most of the game is located.
From the 70's through the early 90's almost all of my deer hunting was for Mule deer in Eastern Washington. The area I mostly hunted is rolling sage brush hills. So I have certainly hunted open country.
I didn't say that the guns couldn't make a 400 yard shot. I said most hunters shouldn't be taking that shot. It is about knowing your limitations and those of your gun.
I generally figure my limit is 350 yards. I feel comfortable that with a good rest I will kill 100% of the standing animals at that range. We checked the range on the last elk I shot the next day with a range finder. It was 370 yards. I had under estimated the range, but the 300 did the job. Had I been packing less of a gun (243, 30-40) I would have worked my way closer before shooting because I know I was too far out for those guns.

 

[dun]

And 400 yards is not that tough a shot for modern firearms.

Not for a modern firearm, but too few people trying it are capable of shooting those distances successfully

 

[rattler]

By the way, we shoot a lot of whitetails with a .223.

A lot of them. ;-)

Why not use a .22 LR on deer, lots been killed with one? More of a challenge.

Why not recommend a .223 for Elk? More of a challenge.

I have no problem with it, as long as game don't pay the price for you being challenged.

ALX

I know of several deer that been taken with a .22 LR (only not feasible generally because they utilize lead unjacketed bullets)and also know of several that got away with the reckless use of a 30-06, among other "bigger" cartridges.

No one is recommending anything.

I just don't fall into the "Bigger is Better" category when it comes to hunting guns.

I would venture to say that more game has "paid the price" from improper shot placement than have from the under utilization of proper terminal ballistics.

When Nosler first came out with the "partition" bullets several years ago, I kept hearing and saw a lot of guys who were using them, and knew for a fact that these guys were putting them in the proper place, but were losing lots of deer for some reason with even the larger caliber guns.

Come to find out, through my own and others' inquiries, these controlled expansion bullets without enough velocity were just punching a pencil sized hole through the game even when they got into some bone. When this happened, there was little blood loss and/or lung damage allowing the deer to run a heck of a ways off before collapsing.

Changing to lighter bullets (which gave more velocity) and using the easier expanding bullets gave much more of a hydraulic shock effect inside the carcass eliminated many of these problems.

It is my own theory that using the proper bullet with the proper velocity for the job at hand at is even more important than the caliber used.

Sorry to be rambling, but this is a passionate subject that I spent a lot of time on back in the soybean days.

This sorta reminds me of the "Myth Busters" show where they were shooting into a pool of water to see which bullet would travel the farthest distance under water. They kept going up in caliber and found out that the smaller bullets went just as deep as the larger ones................


Again, I apologize for rambling..................

Mike don't sound like rambling to me more like word's of wisdom

rattler

 

[mnmtranching]

Dave, Good for you, I was under the impression you are a steel sight brush busting shooter or nothing. Which would be OK with me anyway.

Man when I think about it I have killed MN White Tails with lots of different rounds, yes sir including the 30-30 and 30-40 krag, and some others including 303 British and 12 gauge all open sights. I've used a 284, 308, 250-3000 Savage, 8mm, 30-06, 300 Win Mag. I think that's about it.

Oh yeah, the 270 Win. I set up a piece of plywood 2x2' or so at 275 yards. Make a 6"circle. Bench shoot six rounds before hunting trips. If I get the shots inside the circle I figure I'm ready. I seldom will take shots over 300 yards. I always work at getting under 300 yards for a shot, 200 even better.

 

[AngusLimoX]

Mike don't sound like rambling to me more like word's of wisdom

rattler

Now that is what I was trying to say, and probably not too well.

Mike , when you talk a lot of folks listen. They don't make the distinction between what they are capable of, and what you are.

Based on what you have said in other posts, and I believe you, you are an expert with a rifle. When you say a .223 is adequate for deer, I say it may be for you, but not the majority of folks who take to the woods.

Not if game is to be harvested humanely, which is what we all strive for.

Sometimes it sux to be a guru! :lol:

ALX

 

[MikeC]

I'm no guru and certainly no expert. :oops:

 

[cowgirl580]

hunting is really big in the area. we live in NW colorado and we have the biggest elk population the state. we also have the one of the largest trophy mule deer areas to hunt. now, if those don't bring out the californians and out of staters, i don't know what does. i'm not worried so much when i go out to hunt if i'm going to get my game or even see it, its if i'm going to be shot by some hunter that shoots at anything that moves. and they bring the bigger caliber rifles. downright scary! lots of good advice and opinions posted about rifle calibers and stuff. just out of curiousity, what would you do were you have that 6x6 bull broadside at 300 yards? where are you aiming? what's your preferred caliber? shot placement has lots to do with bringing the animal down. my dad always hunted mule deer with a .22 when he was a kid. i do believe that illegal in this state now though. boy, my fingers are tired from all this typin'. :lol:

 

[mnmtranching]

For me I would not attempt a shot of 300 yards at a elk With one of the slower, heavier bullets. One that maintains velocity and foot pounds. Trajectory in other words. A good shot with a light fast load could place a bullet in the vitals with a 243. I would take the shot under good conditions with my 270 130 grain. Wind can be a problem. I would not go for the shoulder, but that area just back about the size of a basketball. You get the round in the "boiler Room" and your elk is down. :D

 

[rattler]

mnm I haven't ever hunted elk but on whitetailes i try to pin the shoulder's take his wheel's away he won't go anywere on bear go for the neck.

rattler

 

[mnmtranching]

Rattler, Yeah lots of people go for the shoulder, and it works good for deer where the high powered rifle will usually get into the vitals
through the shoulder blade. A six pt bull is another story. At around 7-8 hundred pounds are big heavy boned critters. And will go forever on 3 legs.