So out on the grass tetaney?
Johnson grass
- Thread starter kenny thomas
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kenny thomas
Well-known member
Lucky you stated that you worked the calves. What does your working calves consist of? I dont think Tetnus will hit one within 2 days if your banding them.
There was a discussion a couple weeks ago about calves getting sick at 6 weeks to 2 months old. Cant find it now. Several recommended Inforce 3 at working. I use Inforce 3 and Presponse when working them because its almost instant response to the vaccine.
There was a discussion a couple weeks ago about calves getting sick at 6 weeks to 2 months old. Cant find it now. Several recommended Inforce 3 at working. I use Inforce 3 and Presponse when working them because its almost instant response to the vaccine.
With fluctuating temperatures, I wouldn't rule out pneumonia. They may have seemed fine when you saw them but that could also be from the "predator response". If they know or sense you're watching them and they don't feel well, they'll perk up.
I also use Inforce 3 at birth. It's an intra nasal mod live.
Could be that they got sick. We gave them Virashield L5 and Calvary 9 when we worked them on 5/18 but don't give anything at birth. The first one I found was still warm. Look like he was following cows through a really wide alley to another pasture and just fell over stretched out. This last one was stretched out the same way but had been dead at least a day.
I can't check everything everyday. Try to get to them every 3-4 days though.
I highly doubt its the Johnson Grass or at least the nitrates or prussic acid part of Johnson grass. Its just never a problem this time of year especially when you have rain. Its not stressed in anyway.
Mark Reynolds
Well-known member
It was a stab in the dark. @kenny thomas indicated a "no" as well. I wasn't sure which is why I indicated a WAG. It was mor of a question, so to speak, sorta like "What about......?" Thanks @kenny thomas. I think moving them was good as I'd suspect something in the diet, which the tetany, if it would have been that, is a result from the spring diet. I hope the problem does not persist for you. Would be good ti know what it is/was to prevent in the future. But, you may never know and it may never occur again either,
We calve February 7th to May 1st and the calves get nothing until we work them in May. We give them Virashield or Virashield L5, Calvery 9, and a 2cc dewormer. We knife cut them and do this same deal every year. I'm near positive tetnus didn't get the first one at least not that quick. I looked him over pretty good and didn't notice anything abnormal. The second one I found after I'd guess a day and his mid section was already gone. Only thing in this pasture that's off is the JG on the road. They've been eating it for years with no trouble though. I started to check the first ones blood color but didn't. From what I understand it'll be bright red or blue if it's Prussic acid poisoning?
kenny thomas
Well-known member
Not saying it can't happen but I have been taught that one good thing about knife cutting is they shouldn't get tetnus.
Also both products you mentioned require a booster.
Im betting at the age you stated it could have been pneumonia.
chaded
Well-known member
We have never had an issue grazing it but that doesn’t mean it can’t be an issue. We just had an abnormal spring dry spell followed by A LOT of rain and that can make some plants do funny things. Right after we got the rain I found one of my sheep having some major neurological issues that led me to think she ate something toxic. I gave her activated charcoal and confined her to the barn for a couple days and she pulled out of it. She had been in this pasture for a little while no issues.
Pretty much same weather we've had. Driest winter and Spring I can remember then rain in late April and May.
One of the reasons we don't band calves. We never give a booster. At weaning they'll get a modified live and Vision 8 w/somnus.
I know you are supposed to give a booster and some vets even say a third round is best. I'm on the verge of saying the vaccines cause as many problems as they help. The guys I know doing nothing are getting by just fine.
Mark Reynolds
Well-known member
OK @Lucky and @kenny thomas, I had to go check. I probably should have done this first. No, I don't care for AI, but all it is doing in this case is a search for information at warp speed for me instead of me taking several hours or a couple days. This result is interesting. Apparently calves CAN suffer from tetany. I'd never thought about the question before. These are good points. As to why the calves might be susceptible and the cows not, maybe the cows are using the mineral supplement, and the calves aren't old enough to know to do that?
https://www.bing.com/search?q=can+a+200+lb+calf+suffer+from+grass+tetany?&PC=U531&cvid=ed7ab58297b440aea8924e3d6cd621e3&FORM=ANNAB1&source=chrome.ob
Also, @kenny thomas may still be right, it might not be tetany
This adds to the muddiness of the question I raised:
https://www.bing.com/search?pglt=16...acd23b44347ac515&FORM=ANNAB1&source=chrome.ob
One check towards trying to figure this on out will be to complete a soil test for that pasture, or at least where the Johnson grass is growing if this is a preferred grazing point in particular for the calves. Possible solution: add a hot wire the calves have to come in contact with to reach the Johnson grass.
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kenny thomas
Well-known member
2 Points,
first im missing where it says calves can get grass tetnay.
Second it says and I agree its from grazing young cool season grass. Johnson grass is definitely not a cool season grass.
Calves don't get grass tetany because they are on a mostly milk diet. Milk contains magnesium. Magnesium help prevents grass tetany.
Its the same reason old cows with calves are susceptible. They are giving out their magnesium to their calf.
Its the same reason old cows with calves are susceptible. They are giving out their magnesium to their calf.
simme
Old Dumb Guy
Several possibilities. Johnson grass probably the least likely. Bacterial or viral probably. Maybe lightning. I will mention blackleg as a maybe. Fits the sudden death. I don't think I have ever heard anyone say "My calf is sick with blackleg". They are just found dead. But 2 months is a little young for blackleg. Hopefully the calves that age have some immunity from their dams, especially if dams were vaccinated. If the dams were not vaccinated, maybe blackleg. Stuff happens.
Mark Reynolds
Well-known member
I'm not disagreeing. The first reference I shared was about a 200# calf. Reference indicated possible The 2nd reference was specifically about Johnsongrass. I was specifically wondering about the fact that Johnsongrass is a WSG as well, which is why I looked specifically at Johnsongrass. I didn't suspect it would be a possibility, but, I wasn't 100% that it was 'impossible', so I googled it. Probably what made me even ask the question was that the growing conditions have been so.....different. I have doubts that it is, but was looking for a solid 'rule out', and can't find one. The 'healthy' and then suddenly dead, gave me pause to consider grass tetany as that tends to be what I see in how it behaves. I'm thinking it would be something other than the milk. And yes, I was wondering about milk that the calves have access to preventing tetany with the magnesium content but possibly not quite enough in every case.
Ouachita
Well-known member
We got our first cutting of hay three weeks ago. Lots of rain since, and the patches of Johnson grass was a few inches taller than the Bermuda and Bahia grass a couple days ago. Thanks to this thread, I turned the cows onto it for a couple days and can’t even tell where it was now.
farmerjan
Well-known member
I would suggest that it was blackleg... they're okay, then dead is typical. If it was dry, and many times cooler/cold temps.... then you went to wet, and warmer, the clostridium spores will basically "explode"... and they will ingest them. It can happen to calves often as young as 2 months, but most often seen in cattle 4 months and up.
We have had it happen in the younger animals.
Sometimes they won't show any symptoms, but look fine and dead the next day. Some will get a fever but again, it progresses FAST...
We vaccinate our cows for blackleg when we preg check. CHEAP insurance and they pass a better immune response in their colostrum and milk.
Most calves are protected for 4-10 weeks from their mother's milk. There are arguments that giving a blackleg shot at birth is counter indicative. We give them a shot when they get worked to go to pasture, most are 4-8 weeks old.
We have had it happen in the younger animals.
Sometimes they won't show any symptoms, but look fine and dead the next day. Some will get a fever but again, it progresses FAST...
We vaccinate our cows for blackleg when we preg check. CHEAP insurance and they pass a better immune response in their colostrum and milk.
Most calves are protected for 4-10 weeks from their mother's milk. There are arguments that giving a blackleg shot at birth is counter indicative. We give them a shot when they get worked to go to pasture, most are 4-8 weeks old.
kenny thomas
Well-known member
I never seen them eat poke weed but looks like its possible but not probable.Wife thinks Poke Salad killed them. It's in brush piles and they definitely eat it. Who knows
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greybeard
Well-known member
Have you noticed any Jimsen weed growing outside the fence? Any odd activity in the calves..in their walking or movements? It's that time of year in Texas.
