Retaining Heifers in a Hot Market

farmerjan said:

Because they are reproducing and there are that many offspring every year, so the ranchers naturally have to sell off a certain number????? Just saying...

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Let's see who is actually in cattle country.

Brute 23 said:

Let's see who is actually in cattle country.

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On top of that number in Texas over 90% are in herds of 35 or less.

Brute 23 said:

Let's see who is actually in cattle country.

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I was told that if you take the northwest corner of Arkansas as the center, and draw a circle a hundred miles in diameter, that it's the most densely packed cattle country in the America.

chevytaHOE5674 said:

We grow tons of timothty, orchard grass, reed canary, trefoil, and clover. Thats what we make for hay as well. No row crops here just hay and small grains as a cover for new seeding hay. We don't have a co-op, feed store, salebarn, equipment dealer, etc so everything is a few hours away.

Cattle is typically in small herds of less than 15 or head. Because of our "cheap" land prices many have came here to "homestead" and have taken to raising highlanders and Dexter's. There's a few larger scale guys like myself that raise Angus, Simmental, Herefords, and like myself a mix of the 3.

I wasn't born right here but a few hours away. My wife was born and raised on a piece of ground we run cattle on.

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How close are you to the pictured rocks? I’ve been to the LP several times but only a couple times to the UP. My ex’s family was a little west of Alpena. There was very few open fields and it was mostly trees in rows in that area. Lots and lots of trees.

It was asked earlier how purchased heifers compared to purchased.
With absolutely no evidence, I cannot see how it would be any different if you manage for fertility.
I bought heifers this spring, have them 30 ish days with a bull and culled the opens. I've already eliminated the ones who weren't as fertile etc etc.

SeGaSthrncwboy said:

Without anything for reference as to the size of these cows, I'd say you either have little cows that raise big calves, or normal size cows that raise big calves! Either way, that's a nice set of calves. And some beautiful country you are raising them in. What is that in the green field behind the cows in the 2nd picture? What kind of bull s are you using, @Nesikep ?

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all our fields are an alfalfa/orchardgrass/whatever mix
As for bulls, I raise my own a little, and buy a nice bull once in a while. I found if I save some money by raising some of my own and then put a bit more money into my next purchased bull I could do pretty good.

First heifer/cow is a 3/4 sibling mating, and her first calf pictured is an outcross

2nd cow is a maternal sister, she is a full sibling mating and her daughter is from a 3/4 related bull (closer than I'd usually aim for but it worked fine and she was a great cow)


The boy in my profile pic was my first Gelbvieh bull, I retained 2 of his sons, sold them to friends, then bought/traded them back.

This is Hector, out of a great cow family, I saw his calves at his new home and had to get him back, his only caution was high birthweights, so not good for heifers, but great build on his daughters... The 2nd cow pictured is his daughter (with the white flank)
Hector was a good protector of his herd, and even when he was younger he beat up some much bigger, older bulls.. he never lost a fight

Hector was a cool boy around me though


Marko was a 3/4 sibling to Hector, I don't have too many good pictures of him as an older boy but he had a look to him when he was young I really liked, I ended up trading him to get Hector back.. He had a look of pride about him, and he was a very well mannered boy, I'd halter him and lead him to the girls




From one of Hector's aunties I kept one of Hector's sons.. this is Zeus.. total sucker for attention, he grew in to a nice boy as well.. his mother was built like a brick sh*thouse, not a very big cow but tons of meat and muscle, Just over 5 months here



What a sucker he was.. Yearling here


4 years old and nothing has changed (except I have more gray hairs)


This is my last purchased bull, PB Gelbvieh... I like the place he came from, they raise their cattle like I raise mine, they are all calm and laid back


Breeder in with his herd of weaned boys.. everyone's curious

Full grown Hector at about 7 years old, he was 2500 lbs.. quite a hunk of meat

Heronfish said:

It was asked earlier how purchased heifers compared to purchased.
With absolutely no evidence, I cannot see how it would be any different if you manage for fertility.
I bought heifers this spring, have them 30 ish days with a bull and culled the opens. I've already eliminated the ones who weren't as fertile etc etc.

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But if you keep heifers from your most fertile cows there's a good possibility you won't cull any opens after 30 days.

For instance the last 3 years I've had zero of my kept replacements come up open, in fact all have calved or are bred to calve first cycle.

Because I've already done the culling for fertility along the way for years and years and have kept replacements from my fertile cows. So as generations have gone on fertility has gone up and open culling has gone down.

Brute 23 said:

Let's see who is actually in cattle country.

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Sorry I'm late. But there I am... Just Southwest of the "X" in Texas.

Drose said:

With prices being what they are instead of keeping back heifers and increasing my heard it makes more sense to me just to sell and create maximum cash flow while the prices are high. Then after as prices start to fall increase my heard back to max capacity. What is everybodies plan going forward with high prices? If I wouldn't buy her for that price then I have to sell her at that price right?

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Am I too late to get in on this?

I have a bred heifer and a baby heifer. If I sold my baby, I'd have a real nice Christmas and that's about it. Instead I'm going to have a "5 and Dime" Christmas this year and have a bred heifer and cow to keep, plus two babies (Lord willing) to sell or not next Christmas.

Another thing I've noticed about cattle born and raised on this place is that they know where home is. All cattle eventually learn it but it seems like cattle we've raised don't get out and if they do they come back home easier.
There's a legit argument to both sides but it seems retaining is the all around best method.

What I am saying is if you live in an area where people make their living raising cattle. The majority of those people buy top of the line bulls. Now using round numbers for example. Not real numbers. If rancher has 1,000 cows. Half the calves are heifers, so he has 500 heifers. A common number of heifers held back is 10% of the total herd number. So that is 100 heifers he keeps. That leaves 400 that he sells. The question is how good are the top 25 or 50 that he is selling? A before someone says that 1,000 cows aren't going to wean 1,000 calves I am well aware of that.

Dave said:

What I am saying is if you live in an area where people make their living raising cattle. The majority of those people buy top of the line bulls. Now using round numbers for example. Not real numbers. If rancher has 1,000 cows. Half the calves are heifers, so he has 500 heifers. A common number of heifers held back is 10% of the total herd number. So that is 100 heifers he keeps. That leaves 400 that he sells. The question is how good are the top 25 or 50 that he is selling? A before someone says that 1,000 cows aren't going to wean 1,000 calves I am well aware of that.

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My question is how the buyer at the sale identify those top 25-50 heifers? Your cattle mostly sell in load lots, so how many loads do I purchase to get those 50 replacements? Maybe it is not as simple as some folks think.:unsure:

Dave said:

What I am saying is if you live in an area where people make their living raising cattle.

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How easy/possible is it for a 20 something year old with nothing more than a dream and a couple thousand dollars to start a farm/ranch from scratch in your "cattle country"?

mwj said:

My question is how the buyer at the sale identify those top 25-50 heifers? Your cattle mostly sell in load lots, so how many loads do I purchase to get those 50 replacements? Maybe it is not as simple as some folks think.:unsure:

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Bingo. I haven't met anybody that can look at a group and say "they will all breed first cycle for the next 10 years", or "that group will grow scale smashing calves while eating mediocre forage", etc.

chevytaHOE5674 said:

How easy/possible is it for a 20 something year old with nothing more than a dream and a couple thousand dollars to start a farm/ranch from scratch in your "cattle country"?

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I know a couple of them who are working that. Possible, yes. Easy? It has never been easy even if you inherit the place.

mwj said:

My question is how the buyer at the sale identify those top 25-50 heifers? Your cattle mostly sell in load lots, so how many loads do I purchase to get those 50 replacements? Maybe it is not as simple as some folks think.:unsure:

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A. Get to know the ranchers
B. Go and knock on their door very early and tell them what you are looking for.
C. Go help (or at least observe) them sort off the ones they are going to keep
D. Buy the ones you want before they get on the truck to go to the sale

chevytaHOE5674 said:

Bingo. I haven't met anybody that can look at a group and say "they will all breed first cycle for the next 10 years", or "that group will grow scale smashing calves while eating mediocre forage", etc.

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That's true... but there are people that know how to choose cattle that are more likely to do it. Their percentage of success is higher due to their experience and how they have learned to make choices.

chevytaHOE5674 said:

But if you keep heifers from your most fertile cows there's a good possibility you won't cull any opens after 30 days.

For instance the last 3 years I've had zero of my kept replacements come up open, in fact all have calved or are bred to calve first cycle.

Because I've already done the culling for fertility along the way for years and years and have kept replacements from my fertile cows. So as generations have gone on fertility has gone up and open culling has gone down.

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If there is one thing to conclude in all of this, it's that folks on the internet raise the finest cows in the worlds. And since you have figured it out, I suggest writing a book and cashing in.

But that said, if you buy from a good operation with several hundred head of cattle, you should be able to gate run a good batch of fertile heifers.
Now, you'll never accomplish that elusive perfect cow this way. But if you're making money, who cares? Leave that for Internet braggards and show people.

Travlr said:

That's true... but there are people that know how to choose cattle that are more likely to do it. Their percentage of success is higher due to their experience and how they have learned to make choices.

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More likely to perform? Possible.

But still not as much of a sure thing as when I have years of experience and data on the line of cows.