How Long

[Bright Raven]

bball:

In his Lectures, Tytler displayed a cynical view of democracy in general and representative democracies such as republics in particular. He believed that "a pure democracy is a chimera", and that "All government is essentially of the nature of a monarchy"

I had never seen this stated but I have often thought that all government is essentially the same. Our Republic is about the same as Zimbabwe's Republic , our Republic is just more sophisticated. There corruption is open, here it is conducted in the disguise of campaign donations. The effect is the same.

 

[TexasBred]

Very well said, and this is exactly what we're seeing today, you get squat for your money in the bank, but inflation is huge.. it's just convenient that real estate isn't included in the inflation index and that's where it's the worst. I know from my cousin who's house value doubled in 5 years

What is "interest"? Interest is the cost of money right? Then why in a "free" society is there an agency such as the Federal Reserve that dictates to basically the whole world what the cost of your money should be? On top of that, they dont even answer to anyone. They are just angels sent from Heaven that are doing whats best for everyone. HA!!! Current interest rates paid by bank will not keep up with REAL inflation much less make a profit. In my opinion that's why the stock market has soared. There is no where else to park money and see any gain in purchasing power. Seems a recipe for disaster to me. Uneducated investors pouring money in to try to get some type of yield. I sure don't know enough to play the game.

That's why many people recommend you invest in mutual funds instead of single stocks. They're managed by people that do know enough to play the game.

Legally banks can pay you any amount of interest they want to. Getting them to do it is a different story. :nod:

 

[Nesikep]

Very well said, and this is exactly what we're seeing today, you get squat for your money in the bank, but inflation is huge.. it's just convenient that real estate isn't included in the inflation index and that's where it's the worst. I know from my cousin who's house value doubled in 5 years

What is "interest"? Interest is the cost of money right? Then why in a "free" society is there an agency such as the Federal Reserve that dictates to basically the whole world what the cost of your money should be? On top of that, they dont even answer to anyone. They are just angels sent from Heaven that are doing whats best for everyone. HA!!! Current interest rates paid by bank will not keep up with REAL inflation much less make a profit. In my opinion that's why the stock market has soared. There is no where else to park money and see any gain in purchasing power. Seems a recipe for disaster to me. Uneducated investors pouring money in to try to get some type of yield. I sure don't know enough to play the game.

That's why many people recommend you invest in mutual funds instead of single stocks. They're managed by people that do know enough to play the game.

Yes, people that SHOULD know better, but really don't care.. I mean EVERYONE knew why the 2008 crash happened AFTER it did... It's not like there was something systemic that popped up overnight, it was there for years, but everyone kept making excuses and was going to play the game a little longer... I have no doubt there are serious systemic issues right now that will come and bite them in the arse, but nevertheless, the markets keep going up and once again a "correction" will happen, the talking heads will suddenly say it was inevitable, etc etc.

Isn't someone who's 'independently wealthy', has a few million bucks and lives off interest just as much of a leech and freeloader as the guy on welfare? Neither are productive, and both are living off the work of others.

About the Tytler cycle, is it ever possible to NOT go through one of the phases? Or are you best off just to grin and bear it, and try to hurry up to a better phase?

 

[Rafter S]

Isn't someone who's 'independently wealthy', has a few million bucks and lives off interest just as much of a leech and freeloader as the guy on welfare? Neither are productive, and both are living off the work of others.

I disagree. If someone is living off investments that he or she has accumulated by hard work and sacrifice how does that make them a freeloader or leech? Do you think they aren't paying taxes on that income? And how are they living off the work of others? That money they have invested is out there creating jobs.

 

[greybeard]

Everyone is offended by politics or values other than their own.

That statement offends me.....
:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Nesikep]

Isn't someone who's 'independently wealthy', has a few million bucks and lives off interest just as much of a leech and freeloader as the guy on welfare? Neither are productive, and both are living off the work of others.

I disagree. If someone is living off investments that he or she has accumulated by hard work and sacrifice how does that make them a freeloader or leech? Do you think they aren't paying taxes on that income? And how are they living off the work of others? That money they have invested is out there creating jobs.

It's not out there creating jobs in this day and age.. 40+ years ago it would have been

 

[backhoeboogie]

Isn't someone who's 'independently wealthy', has a few million bucks and lives off interest just as much of a leech and freeloader as the guy on welfare? Neither are productive, and both are living off the work of others.

I disagree. If someone is living off investments that he or she has accumulated by hard work and sacrifice how does that make them a freeloader or leech? Do you think they aren't paying taxes on that income? And how are they living off the work of others? That money they have invested is out there creating jobs.

It's not out there creating jobs in this day and age.. 40+ years ago it would have been

Let's express it another way. The person living off of money he was prudent enough to save is spending that money during his day to day existence. Groceries. Gasoline. Telephone. Light bills. Water and gas. Car insurance. House insurance. Home maintenance and improvement. Perhaps a vacation or a boat or hunting trip.

A "free loader" is living off of my hard work. He is a tick sucking government assistance away from children and elderly etc.

I see a vast difference.

 

[Bright Raven]

Everyone is offended by politics or values other than their own.

That statement offends me.....
:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[melking]

In all 8 pages of this post, I have not seen what I believe is the answer. I saw half of the answer somewhere in here and that was tolerance. The other half is self repair. We all need to start to make a ripple in our own pond by practicing the values necessary to thrive. Our little ripples will turn into bigger ripples when we learn to tolerate other persons ripples in their pond. Start and work on the immediate area around yourself.

 

[Nesikep]

I disagree. If someone is living off investments that he or she has accumulated by hard work and sacrifice how does that make them a freeloader or leech? Do you think they aren't paying taxes on that income? And how are they living off the work of others? That money they have invested is out there creating jobs.

It's not out there creating jobs in this day and age.. 40+ years ago it would have been

Let's express it another way. The person living off of money he was prudent enough to save is spending that money during his day to day existence. Groceries. Gasoline. Telephone. Light bills. Water and gas. Car insurance. House insurance. Home maintenance and improvement. Perhaps a vacation or a boat or hunting trip.

A "free loader" is living off of my hard work. He is a tick sucking government assistance away from children and elderly etc.

I see a vast difference.

I am playing the devil's advocate here if you haven't realized.... but the money a guy on welfare spends creates all the same jobs.
The wealthy guy (I'm talking about trust fund kids) isn't necessarily smarter, harder working or anything else, he just got dealt a good hand

 

[Anonymous]

What is "interest"? Interest is the cost of money right? Then why in a "free" society is there an agency such as the Federal Reserve that dictates to basically the whole world what the cost of your money should be? On top of that, they dont even answer to anyone. They are just angels sent from Heaven that are doing whats best for everyone. HA!!! Current interest rates paid by bank will not keep up with REAL inflation much less make a profit. In my opinion that's why the stock market has soared. There is no where else to park money and see any gain in purchasing power. Seems a recipe for disaster to me. Uneducated investors pouring money in to try to get some type of yield. I sure don't know enough to play the game.

That's why many people recommend you invest in mutual funds instead of single stocks. They're managed by people that do know enough to play the game.

Legally banks can pay you any amount of interest they want to. Getting them to do it is a different story. :nod:

But can an individual charge any amount on a private loan? I dont know the answer but I'ld imagine there are laws limiting very high interest.

 

[Bestoutwest]

I am playing the devil's advocate here if you haven't realized.... but the money a guy on welfare spends creates all the same jobs.
The wealthy guy (I'm talking about trust fund kids) isn't necessarily smarter, harder working or anything else, he just got dealt a good hand

The difference, though is the welfare guy is just giving you your rocks back, but the trust fund guy is taking the rocks that his grandfather and father dug up, and is handing them to you. I think more of guy A pouring his water back into the pool while the rich guy is adding more water to it.

And no, it's not fair that some people are born to rich families, or some folks are born handicapped, some are born stupid, and some super smart but with no motivation. All you can do is do the best you can with the hand your dealt, pay your taxes and die just like the rest of us. With my son, I would slow down while driving (where it was safe to do so) so that he could read street signs. He's been to a zoo, aquarium, we discuss basic science principles like gravity, the seasons, temperature, reproduction using the cattle as examples, etc. When he was almost 6 (he's a November baby), he skipped kindergarten and could have almost tested out of second grade. I'm not bragging, I'm just stating that he got lucky with the family he was born into. Is it fair that there were other children in his grade that didn't even know the hard "c" sound at the beginning of the year? No, but that's the knocks.

 

[TexasBred]

That's why many people recommend you invest in mutual funds instead of single stocks. They're managed by people that do know enough to play the game.

Legally banks can pay you any amount of interest they want to. Getting them to do it is a different story. :nod:

But can an individual charge any amount on a private loan? I dont know the answer but I'ld imagine there are laws limiting very high interest.

He can up the legal limits allowed by his state. No idea what that limit is now. Use to be somewhere around 24% on real estate I think. Heck these payday loan folks are charging something like 4000% APR when it's all said and done. Almost impossible to get them paid off.

 

[TexasBred]

I am playing the devil's advocate here if you haven't realized.... but the money a guy on welfare spends creates all the same jobs.
The wealthy guy (I'm talking about trust fund kids) isn't necessarily smarter, harder working or anything else, he just got dealt a good hand

The difference, though is the welfare guy is just giving you your rocks back, but the trust fund guy is taking the rocks that his grandfather and father dug up, and is handing them to you. I think more of guy A pouring his water back into the pool while the rich guy is adding more water to it.

And no, it's not fair that some people are born to rich families, or some folks are born handicapped, some are born stupid, and some super smart but with no motivation. All you can do is do the best you can with the hand your dealt, pay your taxes and die just like the rest of us. With my son, I would slow down while driving (where it was safe to do so) so that he could read street signs. He's been to a zoo, aquarium, we discuss basic science principles like gravity, the seasons, temperature, reproduction using the cattle as examples, etc. When he was almost 6 (he's a November baby), he skipped kindergarten and could have almost tested out of second grade. I'm not bragging, I'm just stating that he got lucky with the family he was born into. Is it fair that there were other children in his grade that didn't even know the hard "c" sound at the beginning of the year? No, but that's the knocks.

Then you have those who start slow and gain speed. Pass you boy up in a few years and never look back. Dumbest goy I never knew first twelve years of school got nothing but social promotions. Went on and ended up with a PhD and is now a retired college professor. Couldn't add 2 and 2 when I knew him. :???:

 

[True Grit Farms]

I went to the school of hard knocks, the harder you work the more you make. My Grandfather told years ago, it's easy to hire smart people if you have the money. Accountants and Lawyers are cheap and money well spent. IMO.

 

[Rafter S]

I am playing the devil's advocate here if you haven't realized.... but the money a guy on welfare spends creates all the same jobs.
The wealthy guy (I'm talking about trust fund kids) isn't necessarily smarter, harder working or anything else, he just got dealt a good hand

The difference, though is the welfare guy is just giving you your rocks back, but the trust fund guy is taking the rocks that his grandfather and father dug up, and is handing them to you. I think more of guy A pouring his water back into the pool while the rich guy is adding more water to it.

And no, it's not fair that some people are born to rich families, or some folks are born handicapped, some are born stupid, and some super smart but with no motivation. All you can do is do the best you can with the hand your dealt, pay your taxes and die just like the rest of us. With my son, I would slow down while driving (where it was safe to do so) so that he could read street signs. He's been to a zoo, aquarium, we discuss basic science principles like gravity, the seasons, temperature, reproduction using the cattle as examples, etc. When he was almost 6 (he's a November baby), he skipped kindergarten and could have almost tested out of second grade. I'm not bragging, I'm just stating that he got lucky with the family he was born into. Is it fair that there were other children in his grade that didn't even know the hard "c" sound at the beginning of the year? No, but that's the knocks.

Then you have those who start slow and gain speed. Pass you boy up in a few years and never look back. Dumbest goy I never knew first twelve years of school got nothing but social promotions. Went on and ended up with a PhD and is now a retired college professor. Couldn't add 2 and 2 when I knew him. :???:

What makes you think he can now?

 

[Hunter]

That's why many people recommend you invest in mutual funds instead of single stocks. They're managed by people that do know enough to play the game.

Legally banks can pay you any amount of interest they want to. Getting them to do it is a different story. :nod:

But can an individual charge any amount on a private loan? I dont know the answer but I'ld imagine there are laws limiting very high interest.

Is this what Payday Loans does? Those interest rates are astronomical.

Edit: Sorry, I saw someone else already said this.

 

[TexasBred]

Legally banks can pay you any amount of interest they want to. Getting them to do it is a different story. :nod:

But can an individual charge any amount on a private loan? I dont know the answer but I'ld imagine there are laws limiting very high interest.

Is this what Payday Loans does? Those interest rates are astronomical.

Edit: Sorry, I saw someone else already said this.

Hunter probably not as high as I stated but still astronomical. Here is an example. Note that on a $200 loan the finance charge is $36.00....BUT....the loan is only for two weeks.

http://www.aocg.com/resources/NM1-CASH% ... NTRACT.pdf

 

[TexasBred]

The difference, though is the welfare guy is just giving you your rocks back, but the trust fund guy is taking the rocks that his grandfather and father dug up, and is handing them to you. I think more of guy A pouring his water back into the pool while the rich guy is adding more water to it.

And no, it's not fair that some people are born to rich families, or some folks are born handicapped, some are born stupid, and some super smart but with no motivation. All you can do is do the best you can with the hand your dealt, pay your taxes and die just like the rest of us. With my son, I would slow down while driving (where it was safe to do so) so that he could read street signs. He's been to a zoo, aquarium, we discuss basic science principles like gravity, the seasons, temperature, reproduction using the cattle as examples, etc. When he was almost 6 (he's a November baby), he skipped kindergarten and could have almost tested out of second grade. I'm not bragging, I'm just stating that he got lucky with the family he was born into. Is it fair that there were other children in his grade that didn't even know the hard "c" sound at the beginning of the year? No, but that's the knocks.

Then you have those who start slow and gain speed. Pass you boy up in a few years and never look back. Dumbest goy I never knew first twelve years of school got nothing but social promotions. Went on and ended up with a PhD and is now a retired college professor. Couldn't add 2 and 2 when I knew him. :???:

What makes you think he can now?

Have visited with him a number of times over the years. He's very well educated and very intelligent. Just never applied himself until college.

 

[Rafter S]

Then you have those who start slow and gain speed. Pass you boy up in a few years and never look back. Dumbest goy I never knew first twelve years of school got nothing but social promotions. Went on and ended up with a PhD and is now a retired college professor. Couldn't add 2 and 2 when I knew him. :???:

What makes you think he can now?

Have visited with him a number of times over the years. He's very well educated and very intelligent. Just never applied himself until college.

Fair enough. I've known a few professors, and just wanted to be sure.