How Long

[Nesikep]

My problem is more that a BIG corporation has loopholes while a small business doesn't.. It's true that both technically don't pay taxes and they just collect them from the consumer, but the small business is up against a lot of disadvantages as it is

 

[Bright Raven]

I think it got into full swing when Nixon eliminated the gold standard, making it possible to endlessly print money for social programs, the so called "defense" department, etc.
Going back to another thread that says land should double in value every 10 years.. that's a far cry from the claimed inflation rate.

So tell me if everyone really has the opportunity to get rich... How many people who borrowed money in 1980 lost everything when there were 20+% interest rates? How many people lost everything in the dotcom crash? How many people lost everything in the 2008 crash? Who got bailed out? How is it working out for people who went to school for a decade, even in a reasonable field that isn't a liberal arts degree.. for a lot of them it isn't.

China isn't to blame (at least not entirely) for the manufacturing sector in the US dying out... The new wave of automation is far more damaging. In the past, technology CREATED jobs... the automobile, the telephone, etc all spurred HUGE job growth,.. this new wave of technology is replacing jobs at a far higher rate than it creates them.. Of course there will be some service technicians, but for the most part if you want a million of something, one person drafts it, and the machine pretty much will spit it out, nearly unsupervised.

Good post. Economics is tied to politics and the type of socioeconomic system. The combination of politics and socioeconomics in this country is making it almost impossible to live the "American Dream".

 

[Rafter S]

Corporations aren't some stand alone entity. While there are a few very well paid executives, their profits are shared by their stockholders. Any of you that have a mutual fund as part of an investment or retirement portfolio are among those stockholders. As CB said, any additional taxes are passed on as either higher cost of their product or lower profits paid to their shareholders. So raising taxes on corporations means raising taxes on individuals.

And please don't say that it would be making the rich pay their share. While many people like to claim they don't, it's just not true. I can't quote the numbers, but you'd be surprised how small a percentage of people pay a large percentage of the income taxes that are collected every year, in spite of any "loopholes". If you want to talk about people not playing their share, let's talk about the people that don't pay any (and it's a pretty good chunk of the population).

 

[True Grit Farms]

I think it got into full swing when Nixon eliminated the gold standard, making it possible to endlessly print money for social programs, the so called "defense" department, etc.
Going back to another thread that says land should double in value every 10 years.. that's a far cry from the claimed inflation rate.

So tell me if everyone really has the opportunity to get rich... How many people who borrowed money in 1980 lost everything when there were 20+% interest rates? How many people lost everything in the dotcom crash? How many people lost everything in the 2008 crash? Who got bailed out? How is it working out for people who went to school for a decade, even in a reasonable field that isn't a liberal arts degree.. for a lot of them it isn't.

China isn't to blame (at least not entirely) for the manufacturing sector in the US dying out... The new wave of automation is far more damaging. In the past, technology CREATED jobs... the automobile, the telephone, etc all spurred HUGE job growth,.. this new wave of technology is replacing jobs at a far higher rate than it creates them.. Of course there will be some service technicians, but for the most part if you want a million of something, one person drafts it, and the machine pretty much will spit it out, nearly unsupervised.

Good post. Economics is tied to politics and the type of socioeconomic system. The combination of politics and socioeconomics in this country is making it almost impossible to live the "American Dream".

The 80's and 20% interest was great for this household, and pretty much for everyone that wasn't in debt. I'd like to see it again myself.

 

[dun]

Corporations aren't some stand alone entity. While there are a few very well paid executives, their profits are shared by their stockholders. Any of you that have a mutual fund as part of an investment or retirement portfolio are among those stockholders. As CB said, any additional taxes are passed on as either higher cost of their product or lower profits paid to their shareholders. So raising taxes on corporations means raising taxes on individuals.

And please don't say that it would be making the rich pay their share. While many people like to claim they don't, it's just not true. I can't quote the numbers, but you'd be surprised how small a percentage of people pay a large percentage of the income taxes that are collected every year, in spite of any "loopholes". If you want to talk about people not playing their share, let's talk about the people that don't pay any (and it's a pretty good chunk of the population).

Finally someone that gets it!

 

[Bright Raven]

Corporations aren't some stand alone entity. While there are a few very well paid executives, their profits are shared by their stockholders. Any of you that have a mutual fund as part of an investment or retirement portfolio are among those stockholders. As CB said, any additional taxes are passed on as either higher cost of their product or lower profits paid to their shareholders. So raising taxes on corporations means raising taxes on individuals.

And please don't say that it would be making the rich pay their share. While many people like to claim they don't, it's just not true. I can't quote the numbers, but you'd be surprised how small a percentage of people pay a large percentage of the income taxes that are collected every year, in spite of any "loopholes". If you want to talk about people not playing their share, let's talk about the people that don't pay any (and it's a pretty good chunk of the population).

To define your post in a significant way - you mean "publically held corporations".

Edited to add:
Private Corporations far out number publically traded Corporations.

 

[HDRider]

BR - I wanted to read through all this before I answered your question about my statement of compromise.

I am not a big government guy. Sadly, I think it is inevitable that the government will dwarf the leviathan we see today. How big it gets, and what "countries" are under its rule is a question. The rule based society, "nation of laws", "political correctness", "social justice", "socialism, aka (working for the state)" will grow and grow, all in the quest to bring forced "harmony and fairness".

In this new world, there will be rulers, quasi elected leaders. There will always be a wealthy controlling class, a very small percentage of the population, some will always be set apart from the masses.

This eventually will collapse. When? Who knows? How far will it get? Who knows? Maybe we have reached the breaking point. Or, maybe we are just getting started.

The collapse is the compromise. Extremes never exist forever. Extremes run their course. Their tempering is the compromise.

Will the compromise be violent or will it come about peaceably? Who knows?

Or not.

 

[Bright Raven]

BR - I wanted to read through all this before I answered your question about my statement of compromise.

I am not a big government guy. Sadly, I think it is inevitable that the government will dwarf the leviathan we see today. How big it gets, and what "countries" are under its rule is a question. The rule based society, "nation of laws", "political correctness", "social justice", "socialism, aka (working for the state)" will grow and grow, all in the quest to bring forced "harmony and fairness".

In this new world, there will be rulers, quasi elected leaders. There will always be a wealthy controlling class, a very small percentage of the population, some will always be set apart from the masses.

This eventually will collapse. When? Who knows? How far will it get? Who knows? Maybe we have reached the breaking point. Or, maybe we are just getting started.

The collapse is the compromise. Extremes never exist forever. Extremes run their course. Their tempering is the compromise.

Will the compromise be violent or will it come about peaceably? Who knows?

Or not.

That is not a routine application of the term compromise. To paraphras your scenario:

The US government will expand, perhaps annexing other governments, and at some point the "New order government" will collapse.

Sounds more like anarchy.

 

[Rafter S]

Corporations aren't some stand alone entity. While there are a few very well paid executives, their profits are shared by their stockholders. Any of you that have a mutual fund as part of an investment or retirement portfolio are among those stockholders. As CB said, any additional taxes are passed on as either higher cost of their product or lower profits paid to their shareholders. So raising taxes on corporations means raising taxes on individuals.

And please don't say that it would be making the rich pay their share. While many people like to claim they don't, it's just not true. I can't quote the numbers, but you'd be surprised how small a percentage of people pay a large percentage of the income taxes that are collected every year, in spite of any "loopholes". If you want to talk about people not playing their share, let's talk about the people that don't pay any (and it's a pretty good chunk of the population).

To define your post in a significant way - you mean "publically held corporations".

Edited to add:
Private Corporations far out number publically traded Corporations.

So do you think these private corporations are some vast revenue source that could be taxed to the benefit of the general population?

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

I think it got into full swing when Nixon eliminated the gold standard, making it possible to endlessly print money for social programs, the so called "defense" department, etc.
Going back to another thread that says land should double in value every 10 years.. that's a far cry from the claimed inflation rate.

So tell me if everyone really has the opportunity to get rich... How many people who borrowed money in 1980 lost everything when there were 20+% interest rates? How many people lost everything in the dotcom crash? How many people lost everything in the 2008 crash? Who got bailed out? How is it working out for people who went to school for a decade, even in a reasonable field that isn't a liberal arts degree.. for a lot of them it isn't.

China isn't to blame (at least not entirely) for the manufacturing sector in the US dying out... The new wave of automation is far more damaging. In the past, technology CREATED jobs... the automobile, the telephone, etc all spurred HUGE job growth,.. this new wave of technology is replacing jobs at a far higher rate than it creates them.. Of course there will be some service technicians, but for the most part if you want a million of something, one person drafts it, and the machine pretty much will spit it out, nearly unsupervised.

Good post. Economics is tied to politics and the type of socioeconomic system. The combination of politics and socioeconomics in this country is making it almost impossible to live the "American Dream".

The 80's and 20% interest was great for this household, and pretty much for everyone that wasn't in debt. I'd like to see it again myself.

And the award for dumbest post of the year goes to....

 

[Bright Raven]

Corporations aren't some stand alone entity. While there are a few very well paid executives, their profits are shared by their stockholders. Any of you that have a mutual fund as part of an investment or retirement portfolio are among those stockholders. As CB said, any additional taxes are passed on as either higher cost of their product or lower profits paid to their shareholders. So raising taxes on corporations means raising taxes on individuals.

And please don't say that it would be making the rich pay their share. While many people like to claim they don't, it's just not true. I can't quote the numbers, but you'd be surprised how small a percentage of people pay a large percentage of the income taxes that are collected every year, in spite of any "loopholes". If you want to talk about people not playing their share, let's talk about the people that don't pay any (and it's a pretty good chunk of the population).

To define your post in a significant way - you mean "publically held corporations".

Edited to add:
Private Corporations far out number publically traded Corporations.

So do you think these private corporations are some vast revenue source that could be taxed to the benefit of the general population?

Private Corporations operate under the same tax code, however, being private they are not required to disclose an annual financial statement.

I think it is proper that both public and private corporations be taxed the same.

 

[Bright Raven]

Good post. Economics is tied to politics and the type of socioeconomic system. The combination of politics and socioeconomics in this country is making it almost impossible to live the "American Dream".

The 80's and 20% interest was great for this household, and pretty much for everyone that wasn't in debt. I'd like to see it again myself.

And the award for dumbest post of the year goes to....

TT. He makes a good point. I was getting 18 % interest on money market accounts in 1980 with zero risk. Try to match that!!!

 

[True Grit Farms]

The 80's and 20% interest was great for this household, and pretty much for everyone that wasn't in debt. I'd like to see it again myself.

And the award for dumbest post of the year goes to....

TT. He makes a good point. I was getting 18 % interest on money market accounts in 1980 with zero risk. Try to match that!!!

He's dependent on government bailouts to survive Inyati. Borrowing and spending is great when the taxpayers bail your but out of a jam.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

CB was right, you might just be a booger eating moron if you can't see how destructive interest rates like those would be to our economy.

You two clowns are harkening for the good old Jimmy Carter days. I must admit I've never met anyone who did that.

Congrats!

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

And the award for dumbest post of the year goes to....

TT. He makes a good point. I was getting 18 % interest on money market accounts in 1980 with zero risk. Try to match that!!!

He's dependent on government bailouts to survive Inyati. Borrowing and spending is great when the taxpayers bail your but out of a jam.

Your ignorance knows no bounds.

 

[Bright Raven]

CB was right, you might just be a booger eating moron if you can't see how destructive interest rates like those would be to our economy.

You two clowns are harkening for the good old Jimmy Carter days. I must admit I've never met anyone who did that.

Congrats!

Now you are taking liberties with what we said. The point he made was that it was good for his household. It was also very good for me at the time.

 

[HDRider]

BR - I wanted to read through all this before I answered your question about my statement of compromise.

I am not a big government guy. Sadly, I think it is inevitable that the government will dwarf the leviathan we see today. How big it gets, and what "countries" are under its rule is a question. The rule based society, "nation of laws", "political correctness", "social justice", "socialism, aka (working for the state)" will grow and grow, all in the quest to bring forced "harmony and fairness".

In this new world, there will be rulers, quasi elected leaders. There will always be a wealthy controlling class, a very small percentage of the population, some will always be set apart from the masses.

This eventually will collapse. When? Who knows? How far will it get? Who knows? Maybe we have reached the breaking point. Or, maybe we are just getting started.

The collapse is the compromise. Extremes never exist forever. Extremes run their course. Their tempering is the compromise.

Will the compromise be violent or will it come about peaceably? Who knows?

Or not.

That is not a routine application of the term compromise. To paraphras your scenario:

The US government will expand, perhaps annexing other governments, and at some point the "New order government" will collapse.

Sounds more like anarchy.

That is the only "compromise" I see coming. I just don't see harmony when one group wants support from another group by force of law and political correctness (suppression of free speech).

 

[HDRider]

CB was right, you might just be a booger eating moron if you can't see how destructive interest rates like those would be to our economy.

You two clowns are harkening for the good old Jimmy Carter days. I must admit I've never met anyone who did that.

Congrats!

Now you are taking liberties with what we said. The point he made was that it was good for his household. It was also very good for me at the time.

And that is one of the fundamental failings of today. "It is good for me, and to he!! with you."

 

[Bright Raven]

CB was right, you might just be a booger eating moron if you can't see how destructive interest rates like those would be to our economy.

You two clowns are harkening for the good old Jimmy Carter days. I must admit I've never met anyone who did that.

Congrats!

Now you are taking liberties with what we said. The point he made was that it was good for his household. It was also very good for me at the time.

And that is one of the fundamental failings of today. "It is good for me, and to he!! with you."

Wow. You and TT must have got drunk together last night. :mrgreen:

Neither Grit nor I said that!

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Now you are taking liberties with what we said. The point he made was that it was good for his household. It was also very good for me at the time.

And that is one of the fundamental failings of today. "It is good for me, and to he!! with you."

Wow. You and TT must have got drunk together last night. :mrgreen:

Neither Grit nor I said that!

You kinda did say that Birdman.