How Long

[backhoeboogie]

Those "we tote the note" car guys have a racket going on. Selling cars to people who can't get a car any other way. Payments are on a weekly basis and they love it when people miss payments. Late fees plus the maximum interest charge allowed by law. They buy cars at auction, sell them for a down payment that recoups their original investment. Then they start charging out the wazoo.

 

[Bright Raven]

In all 8 pages of this post, I have not seen what I believe is the answer. I saw half of the answer somewhere in here and that was tolerance. The other half is self repair. We all need to start to make a ripple in our own pond by practicing the values necessary to thrive. Our little ripples will turn into bigger ripples when we learn to tolerate other persons ripples in their pond. Start and work on the immediate area around yourself.

Mel, I endorse your idea. Great post.

 

[bball]

That is a general statement. What I see dividing America is less about money and more about lifestyle and values

Personally, I have no practicing or emotional investment in homosexuality but I do think a person should be permitted to live the lifestyle they choose unmolested. On the other hand, they should not be permitted to force that lifestyle on others.

My point is, one side or the other is trying to force their values and lifestyle on the other. When is the Republic going to practice freedom and liberty instead of JUST preaching it?

It's all right there. I do enjoy these discussions, but the inevitable is happening...its just a matter of putting the cycle on the correct time line to figure the speed at which it is occurring.

* please ignore the liberty sidenotes if they offend you..the explanations are just as effective without the religious connotations.

Other than the question of when, the question is what battle will precede the next step (bondage). Will we go down without a fight?

I honestly believe there will be no great conflict before returning to a bondage condition. I have to remind myself that the people who live the type of lifestyle that most of us on this board do are an ever shrinking minority. The cycle occurs so gradually over generations that the mindset is conditioned to accept, almost beg for the bondage and the people are so far removed from a time when bondage reined that there is little to no thought or desire to rally against it..i think only a few more generations..when the ol timers are gone and there are few left with any backbone to risk speaking out..the other question I have is 'what is bondage truly?' What do you consider bondage? Flat out servile state? Being reliant on the govt for existence? Where does one draw the line?

 

[bball]

bball:

In his Lectures, Tytler displayed a cynical view of democracy in general and representative democracies such as republics in particular. He believed that "a pure democracy is a chimera", and that "All government is essentially of the nature of a monarchy"

I had never seen this stated but I have often thought that all government is essentially the same. Our Republic is about the same as Zimbabwe's Republic , our Republic is just more sophisticated. There corruption is open, here it is conducted in the disguise of campaign donations. The effect is the same.

I figure we are transitioning between apathy and dependence.. what's tough to speculate on is how this cycle relates to a govt that is fully engaged in a global market place. Has that increased the rate, especially as we have become a service based market place. I really appreciated Butch's post about the 4 arenas of control or power(paraphrased).

 

[Bright Raven]

It's all right there. I do enjoy these discussions, but the inevitable is happening...its just a matter of putting the cycle on the correct time line to figure the speed at which it is occurring.

* please ignore the liberty sidenotes if they offend you..the explanations are just as effective without the religious connotations.

Other than the question of when, the question is what battle will precede the next step (bondage). Will we go down without a fight?

I honestly believe there will be no great conflict before returning to a bondage condition. I have to remind myself that the people who live the type of lifestyle that most of us on this board do are an ever shrinking minority. The cycle occurs so gradually over generations that the mindset is conditioned to accept, almost beg for the bondage and the people are so far removed from a time when bondage reined that there is little to no thought or desire to rally against it..i think only a few more generations..when the ol timers are gone and there are few left with any backbone to risk speaking out..the other question I have is 'what is bondage truly?' What do you consider bondage? Flat out servile state? Being reliant on the govt for existence? Where does one draw the line?

I read Tyler's Wikipedia Bio. That provided a little help. On the cycle graph, there are several versions. I took the reliance on government to be "dependance". I think "bondage" as flat out servile state. Not unlike what you would have seen in the lower classes in ancient Egypt.

 

[bball]

In all 8 pages of this post, I have not seen what I believe is the answer. I saw half of the answer somewhere in here and that was tolerance. The other half is self repair. We all need to start to make a ripple in our own pond by practicing the values necessary to thrive. Our little ripples will turn into bigger ripples when we learn to tolerate other persons ripples in their pond. Start and work on the immediate area around yourself.

Mel, I endorse your idea. Great post.

Correct philosophy, but contrary to human nature I believe.
The best way to find yourself is to Lose yourself in the service of others. Gandhi

 

[HDRider]

It's all right there. I do enjoy these discussions, but the inevitable is happening...its just a matter of putting the cycle on the correct time line to figure the speed at which it is occurring.

* please ignore the liberty sidenotes if they offend you..the explanations are just as effective without the religious connotations.

Other than the question of when, the question is what battle will precede the next step (bondage). Will we go down without a fight?

I honestly believe there will be no great conflict before returning to a bondage condition. I have to remind myself that the people who live the type of lifestyle that most of us on this board do are an ever shrinking minority. The cycle occurs so gradually over generations that the mindset is conditioned to accept, almost beg for the bondage and the people are so far removed from a time when bondage reined that there is little to no thought or desire to rally against it..i think only a few more generations..when the ol timers are gone and there are few left with any backbone to risk speaking out..the other question I have is 'what is bondage truly?' What do you consider bondage? Flat out servile state? Being reliant on the govt for existence? Where does one draw the line?

Most of us are in bondage today, to wages, to taxes and to governance and providers far removed.

I am afraid you are right about the unnoticed acceptance of bondage. An event we can fight, but fighting a culture shift is like a scream by a man alone in the woods.

 

[TexasBred]

What makes you think he can now?

Have visited with him a number of times over the years. He's very well educated and very intelligent. Just never applied himself until college.

Fair enough. I've known a few professors, and just wanted to be sure.

Yeah me too.....absolute loons.

 

[Bright Raven]

In all 8 pages of this post, I have not seen what I believe is the answer. I saw half of the answer somewhere in here and that was tolerance. The other half is self repair. We all need to start to make a ripple in our own pond by practicing the values necessary to thrive. Our little ripples will turn into bigger ripples when we learn to tolerate other persons ripples in their pond. Start and work on the immediate area around yourself.

Mel, I endorse your idea. Great post.

Correct philosophy, but contrary to human nature I believe.
The best way to find yourself is to Lose yourself in the service of others. Gandhi

Tolerance is not difficult. It is a function of being secure in yourself, respecting other's liberties and rights, and self discipline.

 

[Bestoutwest]

Mel, I endorse your idea. Great post.

Correct philosophy, but contrary to human nature I believe.
The best way to find yourself is to Lose yourself in the service of others. Gandhi

Tolerance is not difficult. It is a function of being secure in yourself, respecting other's liberties and rights, and self discipline.

I believe the hard part to be the self repair piece. My wife has had to remove herself from her family, very toxic situation. How many alcoholics, drug addicts, sex addicts, etc have a problem from with-in, but use their crutch to keep them from confronting the real problem? Self repair is not easy business, otherwise we'd all be free of the baggage we're all carrying.

 

[Anonymous]

In all 8 pages of this post, I have not seen what I believe is the answer. I saw half of the answer somewhere in here and that was tolerance. The other half is self repair. We all need to start to make a ripple in our own pond by practicing the values necessary to thrive. Our little ripples will turn into bigger ripples when we learn to tolerate other persons ripples in their pond. Start and work on the immediate area around yourself.

Mel, I endorse your idea. Great post.

The 10th Amendment to the U.S Constitution was the built in factor to keep Federal Power from evolving into what it has become today. Too bad the Constitution is now irrelevant.

 

[bball]

Mel, I endorse your idea. Great post.

Correct philosophy, but contrary to human nature I believe.
The best way to find yourself is to Lose yourself in the service of others. Gandhi

Tolerance is not difficult. It is a function of being secure in yourself, respecting other's liberties and rights, and self discipline.

I agree completely. And you just made my case for me sir with your last post ;-)

 

[Cross-7]

Correct philosophy, but contrary to human nature I believe.
The best way to find yourself is to Lose yourself in the service of others. Gandhi

Tolerance is not difficult. It is a function of being secure in yourself, respecting other's liberties and rights, and self discipline.

I agree completely. And you just made my case for me sir with your last post ;-)

As long as you don't try to force your lifestyle on others and expect them to validate, praise, pay for it and expect preferential treatment

 

[Bright Raven]

Tolerance is not difficult. It is a function of being secure in yourself, respecting other's liberties and rights, and self discipline.

I agree completely. And you just made my case for me sir with your last post ;-)

As long as you don't try to force your lifestyle on others and expect them to validate, praise, pay for it and expect preferential treatment

To force anyone to validate, praise, pay for or give preferential treatment would infringe upon their liberties and rights. Tolerance is not asking for any of those items. In fact, tolerance endorses those causes.

 

[Cross-7]

I agree completely. And you just made my case for me sir with your last post ;-)

As long as you don't try to force your lifestyle on others and expect them to validate, praise, pay for it and expect preferential treatment

To force anyone to validate, praise, pay for or give preferential treatment would infringe upon their liberties and rights. Tolerance is not asking for any of those items. In fact, tolerance endorses those causes.

Whether it be Islam, homosexuality, transgender, race and so on it seems tolerance is one-sided.
They preach tolerance, acceptance and peace, but demand special treatment. If they aren't accommodated they are rioting in the streets.
They don't want equal treatment.
They want special treatment

 

[Bright Raven]

As long as you don't try to force your lifestyle on others and expect them to validate, praise, pay for it and expect preferential treatment

To force anyone to validate, praise, pay for or give preferential treatment would infringe upon their liberties and rights. Tolerance is not asking for any of those items. In fact, tolerance endorses those causes.

Whether it be Islam, homosexuality, transgender, race and so on it seems tolerance is one-sided.
They preach tolerance, acceptance and peace, but demand special treatment. If they aren't accommodated they are rioting in the streets.
They don't want equal treatment.
They want special treatment

I disagree Cross. I come from two very large families. I know of two individuals, one on each side, that clearly had identity issues. They hide it their entire lives. One is dead. The other is in his 80s. His brother told me this past weekend that he visited Donald and Donald still hides his true self for fear of not being accepted. I think you may be mistaking the vocal minority for a majority that would rather just be left alone.

I also believe many folks push back because they get mistreated. Look how many users here openly use what any educated person knows are derogatory terms such as dyke or queer. Then there are Christians who tell these people they are going to heII because of their lifestyle. So it is a two way street.

Personally, I like to enjoy life and let the other guy do what ever he wants as long as he don't bother me. I cannot remember ever having a homosexual get in my space to the point I felt offended.

Edited: Cross, I was just thinking, as Grit says I am different. I am not easily offended. I probably ignore a lot of social issues that bothers you more than it does me.

 

[bball]

Mel, I endorse your idea. Great post.

Correct philosophy, but contrary to human nature I believe.
The best way to find yourself is to Lose yourself in the service of others. Gandhi

Tolerance is not difficult. It is a function of being secure in yourself, respecting other's liberties and rights, and self discipline.

In reality, humanity struggles with tolerance in general. Why? It's hardwired in our DNA to reject that which is different or not familiar. Basic survival traits at our core being. It requires analysis, thought, objectivity and emotional detachment from a position, the ability to attempt to understand a position different from ones own position. These are hard things to do and require regular exercise in order to develop those cognitive muscles and practice higher level reasoning and cognitive abilities. Divorcing yourself of the emotional response is a true discipline; especially when something is dewy offensive to ones hardwired, engrained mental response. That's why I think it's difficult for most folks to attempt tolerance of anything different from their own values and beliefs. It's simple to be for liberty and freedom if they fall in line with your values. The challenge becomes great when those same liberties are bestowed to those with a different value system. My experience (worth less than 2 cents) is that most people aren't introspective enough to do the initial assessment, let alone the daily exercise it takes to work on improving the flawed thinking/reasoning. I'm aware and it's a struggle to do daily...maybe the greatest challenge any man has, to master himself.

 

[Bright Raven]

Correct philosophy, but contrary to human nature I believe.
The best way to find yourself is to Lose yourself in the service of others. Gandhi

Tolerance is not difficult. It is a function of being secure in yourself, respecting other's liberties and rights, and self discipline.

In reality, humanity struggles with tolerance in general. Why? It's hardwired in our DNA to reject that which is different or not familiar. Basic survival traits at our core being. It requires analysis, thought, objectivity and emotional detachment from a position, the ability to attempt to understand a position different from ones own position. These are hard things to do and require regular exercise in order to develop those cognitive muscles and practice higher level reasoning and cognitive abilities. Divorcing yourself of the emotional response is a true discipline; especially when something is dewy offensive to ones hardwired, engrained mental response. That's why I think it's difficult for most folks to attempt tolerance of anything different from their own values and beliefs. It's simple to be for liberty and freedom if they fall in line with your values. The challenge becomes great when those same liberties are bestowed to those with a different value system. My experience (worth less than 2 cents) is that most people aren't introspective enough to do the initial assessment, let alone the daily exercise it takes to work on improving the flawed thinking/reasoning. I'm aware and it's a struggle to do daily...maybe the greatest challenge any man has, to master himself.

Magnificent! You caught it in a bottle. To be master of one's self and not be ruled by passion is the ultimate in self-control.

 

[D2Cat]

Bright Raven you say, "Tolerance is not difficult. It is a function of being secure in yourself, respecting other's liberties and rights, and self discipline."

It must be difficult, because people in general, don't possess the qualities you say are required for that result.

Maybe tolerance can be easily defined, but much more difficult to practice?

 

[True Grit Farms]

Queer covers both sexes, no need in all the other slang names for the same thing. IMO
If seeing two queers hugging and kissing don't want to make you puke, your weird.