Yet, Another Heifer Question

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CKC1586

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I have an almost six month old heifer, she was running with a little bull and his mom and he is just five months old... she is weaned now. Do I need to worry about the possibility of her being bred? I just read some threads here where there were some nasty surprises. Should I lute her to be safe???
 

Cowdirt

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CKC1586":b9wjxvbd said:
I have an almost six month old heifer, she was running with a little bull and his mom and he is just five months old... she is weaned now. Do I need to worry about the possibility of her being bred? I just read some threads here where there were some nasty surprises. Should I lute her to be safe???

The probability of a 6mos. heifer getting bred by a 5mos bull is so unlikely that I wouldn't lute her.
 
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CKC1586

CKC1586

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Cowdirt":2b3oym7d said:
CKC1586":2b3oym7d said:
I have an almost six month old heifer, she was running with a little bull and his mom and he is just five months old... she is weaned now. Do I need to worry about the possibility of her being bred? I just read some threads here where there were some nasty surprises. Should I lute her to be safe???

The probability of a 6mos. heifer getting bred by a 5mos bull is so unlikely that I wouldn't lute her.
Gosh that is what I was thinking too but then those that had been there and done that put a scare in me. The little guy has demonstrated some "hairy hand" behavior but I really don't think he can get the job done yet!!!
 

hillsdown

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How early does your breed mature? Mine is very early and the same with my bull calves. Had this very discussion with my vet " Dr. U , can a 5-6 month old GV bull calf breed and impregnate a 5-6 month old GV cycling heifer calf ?" answer "Yes."..


If your breed matures early, then you bet I would give her a shot of estrumate (like it way better than lut) 7 days after you separated them.. She is a show heifer why chance it.
 
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CKC1586

CKC1586

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hillsdown":1qf4x9zs said:
How early does your breed mature? Mine is very early and the same with my bull calves. Had this very discussion with my vet " Dr. U , can a 5-6 month old GV bull calf breed and impregnate a 5-6 month old GV cycling heifer calf ?" answer "Yes."..


If your breed matures early, then you bet I would give her a shot of estrumate (like it way better than lut) 7 days after you separated them.. She is a show heifer why chance it.
Well, they are usually a little later in maturing than many beef breeds. I don't breed the heifers until they are at least 18 months old, sometimes works out later cuz I do spring calving but anyway have not seen her cycle. Think a shot may be in order to make me feel better....
 

novaman

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I would certainly give her a shot. A couple bucks for cheap insurance. We always give a shot of prostaglandin AND dexamethasone. This was recommended by a vet because in rare situations prostaglandin alone won't abort.
 

msscamp

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CKC1586":10xxh98m said:
I have an almost six month old heifer, she was running with a little bull and his mom and he is just five months old... she is weaned now. Do I need to worry about the possibility of her being bred? I just read some threads here where there were some nasty surprises. Should I lute her to be safe???

How does this heifer compare to other heifers of her age size wise? Since you saw those threads, you also saw that the only time breeding of a six month old heifer comes into play is when that heifer is bigger and growthier than other heifers her age. Unless this is the case, or if you have see her cycling, I wouldn't with the lute. I would, however, seperate her from the bull calf since she could - keyword being could - start cycling any time.
 

novaman

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msscamp":3nw2xkur said:
CKC1586":3nw2xkur said:
I have an almost six month old heifer, she was running with a little bull and his mom and he is just five months old... she is weaned now. Do I need to worry about the possibility of her being bred? I just read some threads here where there were some nasty surprises. Should I lute her to be safe???

How does this heifer compare to other heifers of her age size wise? Since you saw those threads, you also saw that the only time breeding of a six month old heifer comes into play is when that heifer is bigger and growthier than other heifers her age. Unless this is the case, or if you have see her cycling, I wouldn't with the lute. I would, however, seperate her from the bull calf since she could - keyword being could - start cycling any time.
Alright I'm probably gonna upset ya mss but what kind of advice is this? Compare heifers and if she is bigger she could be bred? What if all the heifers are big and capable of cycling? How often have you seen heifer calves cycling?
 

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novaman":oa3mtb7s said:
msscamp":oa3mtb7s said:
How does this heifer compare to other heifers of her age size wise? Since you saw those threads, you also saw that the only time breeding of a six month old heifer comes into play is when that heifer is bigger and growthier than other heifers her age. Unless this is the case, or if you have see her cycling, I wouldn't with the lute. I would, however, seperate her from the bull calf since she could - keyword being could - start cycling any time.
Alright I'm probably gonna upset ya mss but what kind of advice is this? Compare heifers and if she is bigger she could be bred? What if all the heifers are big and capable of cycling? How often have you seen heifer calves cycling?

Obviously you haven't been bit in the ass yet and, no, you didn't upset me in the slightest. :lol: :lol: As far as the number of cycling heifer calves that I've seen, apparently a lot more than you have - otherwise you would understand where I was coming from. Granted, the usual age of heifers cycling for the first time is somewhere around 6-7 months of age, however, if they display faster growth tendencies, and are consistently bigger than their herdmates, they can start cycling as early as 3-4 months of age.
 

novaman

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msscamp":22o37gbq said:
novaman":22o37gbq said:
msscamp":22o37gbq said:
How does this heifer compare to other heifers of her age size wise? Since you saw those threads, you also saw that the only time breeding of a six month old heifer comes into play is when that heifer is bigger and growthier than other heifers her age. Unless this is the case, or if you have see her cycling, I wouldn't with the lute. I would, however, seperate her from the bull calf since she could - keyword being could - start cycling any time.
Alright I'm probably gonna upset ya mss but what kind of advice is this? Compare heifers and if she is bigger she could be bred? What if all the heifers are big and capable of cycling? How often have you seen heifer calves cycling?

Obviously you haven't been bit in the ass yet and, no, you didn't upset me in the slightest. :lol: :lol: As far as the number of cycling heifer calves that I've seen, apparently a lot more than you have - otherwise you would understand where I was coming from. Granted, the usual age of heifers cycling for the first time is somewhere around 6-7 months of age, however, if they display faster growth tendencies, and are consistently bigger than their herdmates, they can start cycling as early as 3-4 months of age.
On the contrary, I have been bitten before and that is why my recommendation was to give the shot. I understand where you are coming from though. I just wanted to point out the fact that size isn't always indicative.
 

Cowdirt

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msscamp":37wtc1s9 said:
novaman":37wtc1s9 said:
msscamp":37wtc1s9 said:
How does this heifer compare to other heifers of her age size wise? Since you saw those threads, you also saw that the only time breeding of a six month old heifer comes into play is when that heifer is bigger and growthier than other heifers her age. Unless this is the case, or if you have see her cycling, I wouldn't with the lute. I would, however, seperate her from the bull calf since she could - keyword being could - start cycling any time.
Alright I'm probably gonna upset ya mss but what kind of advice is this? Compare heifers and if she is bigger she could be bred? What if all the heifers are big and capable of cycling? How often have you seen heifer calves cycling?

Obviously you haven't been bit in the ass yet and, no, you didn't upset me in the slightest. :lol: :lol: As far as the number of cycling heifer calves that I've seen, apparently a lot more than you have - otherwise you would understand where I was coming from. Granted, the usual age of heifers cycling for the first time is somewhere around 6-7 months of age, however, if they display faster growth tendencies, and are consistently bigger than their herdmates, they can start cycling as early as 3-4 months of age.

msscamp, I don't doubt your experience but it is certainly different to mine. I separate replacement heifers from mom and the bull at about 7mos. My cattle are black, mostly xbred. Those that I have retained cyle closer to 10-12mos.
 
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tncattle467":3byguw2r said:
I would lute her and get her separated if you are going to keep her.
I have an almost six month old heifer, she was running with a little bull and his mom and he is just five months old... she is weaned now. Do I need to worry about the possibility of her being bred? I just read some threads here where there were some nasty surprises. Should I lute her to be safe???
She and her mom where with the baby bull and his mom....she was weaned. Was curious due to some other threads on the subject of having a nasty surprise with a little heifer getting bred by a baby bull, she is not and has not run with a mature bull.
 

novaman

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CKC1586":3588lgr3 said:
tncattle467":3588lgr3 said:
I would lute her and get her separated if you are going to keep her.
I have an almost six month old heifer, she was running with a little bull and his mom and he is just five months old... she is weaned now. Do I need to worry about the possibility of her being bred? I just read some threads here where there were some nasty surprises. Should I lute her to be safe???
She and her mom where with the baby bull and his mom....she was weaned. Was curious due to some other threads on the subject of having a nasty surprise with a little heifer getting bred by a baby bull, she is not and has not run with a mature bull.
As was said a couple times already, give her the shot of lute. A 5 month old bull may be capable of breeding. The lute won't harm the heifer at all. It is your safest bet.
 

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hillsdown":fq0vszh6 said:
How early does your breed mature? Mine is very early and the same with my bull calves. Had this very discussion with my vet " Dr. U , can a 5-6 month old GV bull calf breed and impregnate a 5-6 month old GV cycling heifer calf ?" answer "Yes."..


If your breed matures early, then you bet I would give her a shot of estrumate (like it way better than lut) 7 days after you separated them.. She is a show heifer why chance it.

HD, I am not familiar with either lute or estrumate but will be soon. My vet and I will be working the herd in the next 2 weeks and I have a couple very big and fast maturing heifers from similar cows that I want to make sure are not bred.

Question: Why do you prefer estrumate rather than lute? I'd like something that works in one shot as we run them thru the chute and separate to wean as they come out. Vet could probably bring either.

This is one of them. She will be 218 days old (7.3 months) and maybe 660 lb when weaned and worked.
IMG_1689_Cow66_and_spring_calf_100309.jpg


Thank you. Jim
 

jerry27150

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if you have regular size cattle, chances of her being bred are real slim. i'm 59 & i have only seen two heifers get bred when they were 6 months old, & unless you are creep feeding i would doubt if that bull could breed yet
 

novaman

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jerry27150":164hgfjp said:
if you have regular size cattle, chances of her being bred are real slim. i'm 59 & i have only seen two heifers get bred when they were 6 months old, & unless you are creep feeding i would doubt if that bull could breed yet
You may be 59 but how many breeds have you ran in your years? If you haven't had Gelbvieh your comments are no good.
 

Cowdirt

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novaman":2c5ncoum said:
jerry27150":2c5ncoum said:
if you have regular size cattle, chances of her being bred are real slim. i'm 59 & i have only seen two heifers get bred when they were 6 months old, & unless you are creep feeding i would doubt if that bull could breed yet
You may be 59 but how many breeds have you ran in your years? If you haven't had Gelbvieh your comments are no good.

novaman, I think the poster said her breed was later maturing than many beef breeds. As you stated earlier; it's no big deal to lute her but my earlier suggestion not to be concerned about it, is based mainly on the law of probabilities. If there's only a 10% probability of the heifer being mature enough and a 10% chance of the bull being mature enough then the probabilty of her getting bred is the product of those two probabilities, ie, .10x.10=.0001 or .01% or 1in 10,000.
I think. ;-)
 

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Cowdirt":3fol5at0 said:
msscamp, I don't doubt your experience but it is certainly different to mine. I separate replacement heifers from mom and the bull at about 7mos. My cattle are black, mostly xbred. Those that I have retained cyle closer to 10-12mos.

I'm very surprised that it takes your heifers this long to start cycling! We quit raising black angus back in the early to mid 70's, but have a number of friends who raise both Angus and Herefords. To the best of my knowledge, and that knowledge is based on conversations about cattle, none of them have had this happen. May I be bold enough to suggest you might want to look into the Murray Grey breed? I don't mean to be a smartass, nor disrespectful in any way - but I think I can pretty much guarantee that they will start cycling a whole lot sooner, be easier to handle, prettier in your pasture, and probably do better for you overall. Just a suggestion! :)
 

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msscamp":2azlcra6 said:
Cowdirt":2azlcra6 said:
msscamp, I don't doubt your experience but it is certainly different to mine. I separate replacement heifers from mom and the bull at about 7mos. My cattle are black, mostly xbred. Those that I have retained cyle closer to 10-12mos.

I'm very surprised that it takes your heifers this long to start cycling! We quit raising black angus back in the early to mid 70's, but have a number of friends who raise both Angus and Herefords. To the best of my knowledge, and that knowledge is based on conversations about cattle, none of them have had this happen. May I be bold enough to suggest you might want to look into the Murray Grey breed? I don't mean to be a smartass, nor disrespectful in any way - but I think I can pretty much guarantee that they will start cycling a whole lot sooner, be easier to handle, prettier in your pasture, and probably do better for you overall. Just a suggestion! :)

msscamp, according to what I've seen on this board and read other places, the Murray Greys sure have alot to offer, however, I spent too much time changing directions when I first got in this business. I however did see the preference for black calves coming in our area before many people did. I guess I'll ride the wave awhile longer. I have no doubt that it will change. Some say already has in their area.

With respect to when my heifers start cycling: All heifers except those that look like "keepers" are gone at about 7mos. age. With the keepers separated it works out well, age and size wise, by 15 mos. to breed. For my purposes I can't see any advantage to have earlier cycling.
 

novaman

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Cowdirt":2lrrlg99 said:
With respect to when my heifers start cycling: All heifers except those that look like "keepers" are gone at about 7mos. age. With the keepers separated it works out well, age and size wise, by 15 mos. to breed. For my purposes I can't see any advantage to have earlier cycling.
I can see advantages to having heifers cycle earlier. If it takes that long for you heifers to cycle they can't be growing properly. If they aren't cycling at or before around 8 or 9 months they aren't growing out properly IMO. If the heifers aren't growing properly they aren't going to have the chance to express their potential as a cow. Just my couple pennies.
 

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