mikegahr
Well-known member
I've been worming with ivermic pour-on the last 2-3 years, and thought a drench wormer this year what would u recommend
Wo rming ?
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kenny thomas
Well-known member
Stick with pour-on and use Cydectin.
1982vett
Well-known member
Take your pick......it is a good idea to change every now and then.
Lucky_P
Well-known member
Actually, what we've come to realize is that 'rotating' classes of wormers - as we've done in the past, is a misguided concept, that only serves to move us down the road toward resistance to all classes of wormers at a much faster pace.
Better to pick one class, stick with it until it no longer works on that herd/premise, then switch to another class, etc.
So... if the ivermectin-type dewormers are working for you, stick with them. If you get to a point where you think - or can prove, by doing fecal egg counts 7-10 days after 'deworming' - that it's no longer working, then switch to one of the other anthelminthic groups - panacur/valbazen, etc. or tramisol/rumatel, etc., and stick with that group 'til it no longer does the job.
Better to pick one class, stick with it until it no longer works on that herd/premise, then switch to another class, etc.
So... if the ivermectin-type dewormers are working for you, stick with them. If you get to a point where you think - or can prove, by doing fecal egg counts 7-10 days after 'deworming' - that it's no longer working, then switch to one of the other anthelminthic groups - panacur/valbazen, etc. or tramisol/rumatel, etc., and stick with that group 'til it no longer does the job.
redcowsrule33
Well-known member
Lucky_P":b8b46xwk said:
Exactly what he said. The only other reason to switch is if your current product doesn't cover what you need it to, such as if tapeworms show up (ivermectin will do you no good). It never hurts to do a pre-worming fecal if you haven't lately, just to know what you are treating.
I know it flies in the face of everything we've been taught, but these are the most current recommendations.
Why are you worming? How old are the animals and what is the feed/ management style. I graze and feed hay in winter and havn't de-wormed in 9 years. Only worm if an animal is showing signs. Waste of money and we will be in the same position as shepherds soon. Always challenge conventional practices. Want to hear something crazy? I don't vaccinate either. SSSHHHHH! Don't tell big AG on me.
tripleBfarms
Well-known member
AllForage":kwygmij1 said:
hope you don't let your cows run in the pond. Wait till the lepto hits and they abort all their calves, or die. $1 a head will seem real cheap then.
Lucky_P
Well-known member
Bigger hit will probably be when AllForage's best calves die of blackleg.
I'm not convinced that it's economically worthwhile to deworm most adult cows, but not vaccinating against anything is sheer foolishness.
I'm all about minimal inputs, but there's no way I wouldn't at least vaccinate against the clostridials and lepto.
I'm not convinced that it's economically worthwhile to deworm most adult cows, but not vaccinating against anything is sheer foolishness.
I'm all about minimal inputs, but there's no way I wouldn't at least vaccinate against the clostridials and lepto.
TexasBred
Well-known member
Hard to measure the effects of worming but waiting until one is going to he$$ is a bit late. And if your budget is that tight you're probably in the wrong business anyway. And absolutely on the vaccines. One lost cow or calf will buy a lot of vaccine and pay for a lot of labor.Lucky_P":3gmqpdp4 said:
Still waiting for a disaster. My market is for beef never poked or poured. I am aware of most diseases, but also don't live in fear. I also probably do not have most of the bad stuff associated with geographical areas. Vets here also tell folks worming adults is not needed. If I ran large numbers I would probably do things a little different. This is what is great about the beef industry, lots a niches.
If I see a calf with a little rough coat I put Basic H in the water. Like I said, I'm crazy.
If I see a calf with a little rough coat I put Basic H in the water. Like I said, I'm crazy.
TexasBred
Well-known member
And also a bit foolish it appears. But best of luck to you.AllForage":2en2y6kp said:
preston39
Well-known member
=====================AllForage":190j0tmt said:
..."Basic H".... ?
I am not an amway person. I don't have any proof that is works either, I only stated what I do. Cattle should not have to be routinely wormed. Rotating pastures and pumping out of ponds to tanks would help a lot of folks. Once again my market dictates I use no chemicals. I personally shake hands with every person that eats my beef. Most people have no idea where theirs ends up. If someone offered you 50 cents more per pound for your calves, I bet you would figure out a way raise them without chemicals. Making money with cattle is just as much marketing as producing them. If you let someone else do most of the marketing, most of the profits go with them.
SRBeef
Well-known member
one of the main benefits of pouring cattle ahead of winter is the lice control.
Allforage, do you feel basic H in the drinking water controls lice which can get pretty bad by late winter?
Lice in the coat doesn't seem to me to be a result of poor management or big company pressures or poor sanitation, etc. lice are just there by the end of winter...
Jim
Allforage, do you feel basic H in the drinking water controls lice which can get pretty bad by late winter?
Lice in the coat doesn't seem to me to be a result of poor management or big company pressures or poor sanitation, etc. lice are just there by the end of winter...
Jim
Don't have a lice problem. The only time I did was when I brought some hereford heifers calves in. Next year it was gone and hasn't been back. I am not trying to push my methods, just be open and not accept conventional wisdom all the time. The way I manage cattle has to be a decision you make. Basic H will have no effect on lice. Salatin is another user of Basic H. Once again I was not necessarily advocating it, just the constant assumption that cattle have to be wormed without any exterior signs. Continual lice problems I think would be related to housing, feeding, and bedding management. I will open another can of worms, I feed kelp seaweed to ward off pinkeye. Never had that either. There is a natural solution to most cattle issues. The exception would be virulent cattle diseases associated to certain geographical areas as I stated earlier. Then of course prevention is best.
SRBeef
Well-known member
Allforage, I will jump in to your can of worms also because I have sea kelp out in a mineral feeder also. They don't touch it very much (which is good because of the price!) but I figured what the heck. I had an unused rubber flap covered round gound feeder....
On lice I will have to disagree - mine are never in a building nor bedded. They winter in the woods. I see many of them rubbing on trees by spring time with lice. Yes they do grow a heavy winter Hereford coat but that is what they are supposed to do.
I am open to other suggestions for natural control of lice but so far the winter pour seems most effective. My vet measures and adjusts the amount applied very carefully based on the weight of the animal.
Vacinations to me also are a no-brainer. We vacinate our kids so why not our cattle???
Animals being harvested in late April just had their last shots and pour. My vet assures me all traces of the pour on will be gone long before then. Mine get no antibiotics because they dont need them. If they needed then I would use them but sell them in other markets.
Still looking for other suggestions for winter lice...
Jim
On lice I will have to disagree - mine are never in a building nor bedded. They winter in the woods. I see many of them rubbing on trees by spring time with lice. Yes they do grow a heavy winter Hereford coat but that is what they are supposed to do.
I am open to other suggestions for natural control of lice but so far the winter pour seems most effective. My vet measures and adjusts the amount applied very carefully based on the weight of the animal.
Vacinations to me also are a no-brainer. We vacinate our kids so why not our cattle???
Animals being harvested in late April just had their last shots and pour. My vet assures me all traces of the pour on will be gone long before then. Mine get no antibiotics because they dont need them. If they needed then I would use them but sell them in other markets.
Still looking for other suggestions for winter lice...
Jim
Jim,
Have you considered the woods as part of the problem. They are most likely harboring there and the infestation is occuring there. As far as another natural lice control, Diatomaceous earth. Dusted on the backs periodically. Fleet farm is now carrying it up here in Appleton. We vaccinate humans for some things that are not exactly a problem unless very risky behaviour occurs. I simply have never and I have not had a problem. It is a whole farm management system that has worked for me.
I feed the kelp, redmond salt, and mid-west bio-ag mineral seperately free-choice. The chelated iodine in the kelp is what wards off pinkeye.
Sometimes you have to remind yourself that cattlemen of the past got by with a lot less and made it. What would you do if there wasn't a medicine cabinet to run to.
Have you noticed that certain cows are routinely becoming liced every year. If so you could add that to your selection process. Just like fly resistance can be selected for.
Have you considered the woods as part of the problem. They are most likely harboring there and the infestation is occuring there. As far as another natural lice control, Diatomaceous earth. Dusted on the backs periodically. Fleet farm is now carrying it up here in Appleton. We vaccinate humans for some things that are not exactly a problem unless very risky behaviour occurs. I simply have never and I have not had a problem. It is a whole farm management system that has worked for me.
I feed the kelp, redmond salt, and mid-west bio-ag mineral seperately free-choice. The chelated iodine in the kelp is what wards off pinkeye.
Sometimes you have to remind yourself that cattlemen of the past got by with a lot less and made it. What would you do if there wasn't a medicine cabinet to run to.
Have you noticed that certain cows are routinely becoming liced every year. If so you could add that to your selection process. Just like fly resistance can be selected for.
Have you actually seen the lice and eggs. Cows rubbing in spring is also normal behavior. The early wet conditions in early spring here in WI causes them to just itch. My sheep will often "cast" themselves on their back itching and can't roll over in late pregnancy after rainshowers. My cows scratch also.
just a thought
