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Why???

plumber_greg

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My friend and renter of some of my pasture, Bill Conley of Conley angus, is having his bull sale today.
Ask anyone around here, and they aren't going because they don't like his bulls.
Talked to Bill yesterday, most the calls are coming from Canada and Montana. He said a lot from Canada.
Bill won the pen of 5 at the Western Stock Show, lots of interest in those bulls. He hadn't been there in several years. Those bulls are selling.
He has several well known bulls at Genex and Select Sires. Matrix, Lookout, Eagle Eye, just to name a few.
So my question is, would you rather by a bull from a long ways off, or do you support your local seedstock producer? Do you feel that just because he is close, his cattle aren't what you want?
I have even seen it in the plumbing business, the farther from home I am, the more of an expert I become.
Granted, the average producer isn't probably gonna' be able to afford the top end bulls, but the lower end, which is probably what is purchased from a less known breeder, is affordable.
Just wondered why this happens so often. Is it jealousy of a neighbor being successful?
Thanks for reading, gotta' go chore. gs
 

HDRider

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Luke 4:24 - No prophet is accepted in his own country.


I purposely bought a bull close to me.
 

bse

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Id say for me, I don't want show stuff or OCC genetics. I think most commercial cattle folks want bulls that go to work not the show ring. 2 different worlds in my opinion which dont meen nothing.
 

plumber_greg

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I agree on the show ring. Fine line between work in show and work in fescue pastures.
OCC genetics are ok if you use them wisely. Not the end for all means. I am tearing on ones' cattle down.
I bought my original cattle from Nichols Farms in Iowa. Nice cattle, bought 119 head of yearling heifers. Ross picked and advised me on the bulls that followed. Really nice bulls, kept heifers, bred heifers.
After a few years, my cows got very large and hard doing.
That is when I bought a Marathon son from Bill. Probably made my best heifers and best steers I have ever had when bred to the Nichols cows.
Have used Bills' bulls for several generations, but I am gonna' have to put more frame in my heifers, so gonna' look at the Nichols genetics again and go the other way. Seems to be an up and down sort of thing for me. Keep in mind that I could take the best cow herd in the U.S. and get it screwed up.
Gonna' buy 3 bulls today, 13k is what I got, hope to get in the upper middle.
 

Ky hills

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I am not very familiar with that herd, so I can't give an opinion on that. I will say that I agree with others about not wanting a lot of the show ring or smaller frame types. I do think that there are some breeders that balance selection for production and showing, and have good results. On the other hand, I have seen some advertisement pictures of some bulls from several breeds that appear to be show ring oriented that I just don't like the looks of. The pastures here are fescue based and it can be pretty hot in the summer so I like slick haired cattle. Frame as someone else mentioned is important for our markets, the smaller frame cattle regardless of breeding or quality are docked.
 

Aaron

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Around here there are 3 segments of producers buying bulls.

Majority, would say close to 50%, are buying their bulls at least 200-900 miles away. Selection, pedigree, quantity and name recognition all come into play. I am in this group.

The next 35% or so will buy local. Small herds less than 50 cows. Want bull quick and cheap with very little hassle in terms of getting them delivered. Cheap is the major factor, because if the price gets too high, they will quickly fall into the last group of people and do some trading.

The remaining 15% or so never buy bulls. They either home raise or trade with a neighbor. Quality, inbreeding and disease are not concerns of theirs. As long as they don't have to spend money on a bull, they are happy. Quite often they have serious BVD and conceptions issues, marketing poor doing cattle with nuts and horns.
 

Stocker Steve

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The small herds here like to rent bulls. There are a couple guys that buy bulls out of the sales barn, keep them thin, and then rent them hoping the bulls gain weight on free feed. :(
 

plumber_greg

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Aaron, went to the sale. A buyer on the internet, don't know the name, paid $15,000 for a third interest in one bull, another paid $20,000 for 1/2 interest in another. Both were from Canada, I think Donna said Manitoba. Could have been the same person, I don't know. 50 bulls averaged $4860.
I bought 3--- $4,000-----$4500-----and $5000.
The cheap one I bought for a friend. He said to spend around $3.000. Haven't seen him yet, may offer to sell him an older bull and pay him the difference. He may not care.
Steve, ain't no way, I don't care how many cows someone has, that I would let them rent a bull unless I bought him at a sale barn and had no intention of ever using him again.
I hear of people that rent bulls and shudder thinking of what those bulls may bring in to the unsuspecting person. Some it may not matter, but a young person wanting to start just has no idea if he does something like that. gs
 

Clodhopper

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BC Lookout has been a very popular bull with the Simmental crowd. We've used a Lookout son and also bred and sold one. The calves we got out of his son came easy and grew fast, some of the most vigorous new calves you'll see. The bull himself was a tank on nothing but fescue and mineral, the only feed he got after maturity was to catch him. He was also very gentle. I would say he's a real world bull, judging by his offspring. Tell Mr. Conley good job and keep up the good work!

I would say jealousy plays a big part in why locals won't use him. A qualification to be an expert is someone who's at least fifty miles from home, no way the guy down the road knows that much more than I do.
 

plumber_greg

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My fall herd is predominately Simmental. That's why I looked at the Lookout sons.
Everyday I drive past Bill's cattle to check my own. They are always for the most part what you would call perfect.
The time Donna spend with the cattle, disposition can be nothing but good. gs
 

jscunn

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Plumber_Greg,
First of all you are doing it right, finding matings that work for you. Blending of Nichols and BC works for you then keep doing it. Sometimes you can find those complimentary matings all from the same program by using different bloodines but normally changing frame size up or down you have to change programs like you did.

Maybe the neighbors dont think a BC bull will work in fescue, maybe some are jealous.. in this business who knows. Maybe Bill doesnt support the local cattleman's association, buy at the right co-op, or eat at the right coffee shop.. no telling.
 

Son of Butch

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The farther the drive the better the bull.
My neighbor wouldn't go to the local chiropractor, he drove 35 miles to find a good one.
My uncle in the town 35 miles away wouldn't use the one local to him that our neighbor said was so good.
He'd drive to our local one that our neighbor claimed was no good. :)
 

plumber_greg

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Every day I drive to some distant town to work and wonder, where is the local plumber.
How can you not know him? What did he do?
I appreciate the work, but even tho' I don't know the local, I'm sure he could do just as good of a job as I offer. gs
 

Aaron

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plumber_greg":2kuvvx80 said:
Aaron, went to the sale. A buyer on the internet, don't know the name, paid $15,000 for a third interest in one bull, another paid $20,000 for 1/2 interest in another. Both were from Canada, I think Donna said Manitoba. Could have been the same person, I don't know. 50 bulls averaged $4860.
I bought 3--- $4,000-----$4500-----and $5000.
The cheap one I bought for a friend. He said to spend around $3.000. Haven't seen him yet, may offer to sell him an older bull and pay him the difference. He may not care.
Steve, ain't no way, I don't care how many cows someone has, that I would let them rent a bull unless I bought him at a sale barn and had no intention of ever using him again.
I hear of people that rent bulls and shudder thinking of what those bulls may bring in to the unsuspecting person. Some it may not matter, but a young person wanting to start just has no idea if he does something like that. gs

Those prices are light years ahead of what bulls are going for up here, particularly when you factor in the exchange rate.
 

3waycross

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plumber_greg":22bw0pz4 said:
My friend and renter of some of my pasture, Bill Conley of Conley angus, is having his bull sale today.
Ask anyone around here, and they aren't going because they don't like his bulls.
Talked to Bill yesterday, most the calls are coming from Canada and Montana. He said a lot from Canada.
Bill won the pen of 5 at the Western Stock Show, lots of interest in those bulls. He hadn't been there in several years. Those bulls are selling.
He has several well known bulls at Genex and Select Sires. Matrix, Lookout, Eagle Eye, just to name a few.
So my question is, would you rather by a bull from a long ways off, or do you support your local seedstock producer? Do you feel that just because he is close, his cattle aren't what you want?
I have even seen it in the plumbing business, the farther from home I am, the more of an expert I become.
Granted, the average producer isn't probably gonna' be able to afford the top end bulls, but the lower end, which is probably what is purchased from a less known breeder, is affordable.
Just wondered why this happens so often. Is it jealousy of a neighbor being successful?
Thanks for reading, gotta' go chore. gs

Greg we have a local processor who does a fantastic job on custom butchering. A huge percentage of the local producers drive 80 one way or 60 another to get their animals processed by two other processors who are universally not trusted in their own towns, and the people from those towns come here to get their animals done.....short answer...HUMAN NATURE.

As far as buying local bulls I like the idea of buying cattle who excel on my conditions but that didn't stop me from buying a bull in Virginia a few years ago....go figure!
 

gizmom

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Plummer

We used some Matrix from Bill's program back in 2006 he left us with some beautiful daughters. I started trying to find more semen on the bull and couldn't find any at the stud. I called Bill super nice guy, purchased some Matrix as well as Certified. I know they show cattle and I only have limited experience with them but the little we have had has been positive. We used the Certifed on heifers and only have a few so not really enough to make a judgement on as yet. What are the Bulls you got sired by?

Gizmom
 

3waycross

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I use semen all the time from breeders who SHOW. I however DO NOT use semen from breeders who advertise 900lb weaning weights......
 

elkwc

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There can be many reasons. Have never seen the Conley cattle in person so hesitate to judge. I know that many breeders are wanting more frame now because the feeder buyers and feedlots are docking if they don't have it. I have heard some of his cattle are on the short side frame wise but again have never seen them myself. I like the looks of some of his cattle but they are too far away for me to consider. There are other reasons a person doesn't purchase from a local breeder but most of the time I find it is frame, quality and price. Also the ability to perform in ones conditions. I know many PB's who creep their calves and buyers tend to feel it doesn't relate to their conditions. Hope the bulls do great for you. On the flip side there is aa Angus breeder here who had a sale recently and at least 80% of all bulls and females went to local buyers. This breeder has started adding some frame back to his cattle. I really like some of the OCC cattle but they are like the Pharo cattle and matings need to be done carefully.
 

plumber_greg

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Gizmon,
Got a son of Matrix out of a Belle daughter.
Other 2 were Certified sons. Have saved several yearling heifers out of Certified, gonna' breed this spring. One of the Certified sons had a weaning ratio of 98, but gained nearly 6 lb a day at the bull feeding place in Ks.
3way, I was surprised to see on the catalog 850 lb. adjusted weights on weaning. I know for a fact that they aren't creepfeeding. Knew the calves looked good, but didn't expect that.
OCC and Conley cattle are a long way from Pharo cattle. Gotta' agree on watching the frame tho'.
A guy from Tx. bought 35 of their bulls last year and bought some more this year. His only complaint was that he thought they were getting too big too fast.
Most of their bulls will have a mature weight of around 2700. My understanding of Pharo is a mature weight of 18-2000lb. May be wrong on Pharo.
 

kickinbull

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plumber_greg":14sg1ck8 said:
Every day I drive to some distant town to work and wonder, where is the local plumber.
How can you not know him? What did he do?
I appreciate the work, but even tho' I don't know the local, I'm sure he could do just as good of a job as I offer. gs
its same here with putting up hay. We used to drive 5 miles to put up hay but couldn't get any next door.
 
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