What's wrong with my plan... Bulls

[Alan]

This is not directed at anyone in particular, so no offense is intended to anyone.

With that said, why is it we are seeing so many dog ugly bulls being posted for critique? Why buy a bull because he is cheap or he is the calf you ended up with from the auction yard?

My thoughts is you can buy a decent yearling or older bull for $1000 to $2000. My experience is with herefords, but I'm sure you can pick up good bulls of other breeds for the same amount, BA's may be more money I don't know.... don't pay for papers, but know the bulls background, claving ease, ect.

Use the bull for as long as you want to pay to feed him and ship him, either to private party or auction yard. You will get close to $1000 at the auction yard.

My plan is to find a decent yearling or long yearling (virgin) BA bull for around $1000 and let him do clean up work after I AI my Herefords, for about 90 to 120 days, then ship him. and re-coop most of my investment. This will be my first attempt at AIing my Herefords to Hereford bulls, I expect about 99% black baldy calves running around.

I guess my point is, I believe finding a decent to good bull is not that hard to do without putting out a lot of money. A lot of folks do not need the $5000 + bulls. But why buy stew meat and expect herd improvment? I guess it could be a lack of knowledge, which is okay as long as it doesn't take someone forever to learn.

Sorry for the morning editorial, just some thoughts while I have my morning coffee. I should say that I have seen many great looking bulls posted here also.

JMO,
Alan

 

[Victoria]

It is true. If you have one poor cow walking around it only affects one calf. One poor bull affects your whole herd.

 

[Frankie]

Sounds like a good plan. I hope you can find a GOOD Angus bull old enough to cover your cows for $1,000.

 

[preston39]

Alan,


Good read.

http://cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic. ... c6fd2aba04

 

[boone]

I don't remenber what post it was, but someone was showing off one of the dog ugly bulls you make reference to and mentioned the fact that the boss bought him because he walked over to the fence and seemed gentle. Bull buying is a decision that requires a lot of head and very little heart(emotion). If I were a betting man I would wager that most of these inferior bulls are pictured on smaller/hobby farms were the calf income isn't the only source of revenue. I understand your point completely. Boone

 

[redfornow]

I don't remenber what post it was, but someone was showing off one of the dog ugly bulls you make reference to and mentioned the fact that the boss bought him because he walked over to the fence and seemed gentle. Bull buying is a decision that requires a lot of head and very little heart(emotion). If I were a betting man I would wager that most of these inferior bulls are pictured on smaller/hobby farms were the calf income isn't the only source of revenue. I understand your point completely. Boone

Exactly, or and old timer.
I have a neighbor down the road that does alright.
But he puts little to nothing into his land animals or farm in general.

MD

 

[Caustic Burno]

This is not directed at anyone in particular, so no offense is intended to anyone.

With that said, why is it we are seeing so many dog ugly bulls being posted for critique? Why buy a bull because he is cheap or he is the calf you ended up with from the auction yard?

My thoughts is you can buy a decent yearling or older bull for $1000 to $2000. My experience is with herefords, but I'm sure you can pick up good bulls of other breeds for the same amount, BA's may be more money I don't know.... don't pay for papers, but know the bulls background, claving ease, ect.

Use the bull for as long as you want to pay to feed him and ship him, either to private party or auction yard. You will get close to $1000 at the auction yard.

My plan is to find a decent yearling or long yearling (virgin) BA bull for around $1000 and let him do clean up work after I AI my Herefords, for about 90 to 120 days, then ship him. and re-coop most of my investment. This will be my first attempt at AIing my Herefords to Hereford bulls, I expect about 99% black baldy calves running around.

I guess my point is, I believe finding a decent to good bull is not that hard to do without putting out a lot of money. A lot of folks do not need the $5000 + bulls. But why buy stew meat and expect herd improvment? I guess it could be a lack of knowledge, which is okay as long as it doesn't take someone forever to learn.

Sorry for the morning editorial, just some thoughts while I have my morning coffee. I should say that I have seen many great looking bulls posted here also.

JMO,
Alan

It's kinda of like baby pictures everyone wants to show off until they here that is one God Awful looking creature.
Alan it's the difference in a Cattleman and a pet owner.
A Cattleman wouldn't have some of those POC's in there pasture. A bad cow hurts a bad bull the train has jumped the tracks.

 

[endebt]

If you look to your Angus breeders that have a commerial herd and a reg herd you can pick up a good bull. We have been doing this for about 5 years, We A . I.our reg. herd then turn them out with our commerial herd with reg. bulls as clean up. At weaning we take the top 10% of the bulls and hiefers and save them. The rest are cut and given growth implants to gain the max weight. The top 10% will be marketed to the commerial cattleman to help him improve his herd. If the bulls i am trying to sell will not help you herd better it self then you need to look else where. Hope this helps.

 

[Aero]

My plan is to find a decent yearling or long yearling (virgin) BA bull for around $1000 and let him do clean up work after I AI my Herefords,

for that kind of money, you are going to end up with exactly what you are complaining about. commercial yearling heifers bring that.

you dont pay for papers, but you want to know the pedigree and calving ease? i want a million dollars and not have to pay taxes on it too.

 

[Aero]

the boss bought him because he walked over to the fence and seemed gentle.

there is nothing wrong with this purchase; he just puts more of a premium on temperament than you do.

 

[la4angus]

But I'll bet you $5.00 to a donut that he doesn't do alright showing a decent income, putting little to nothing into his land, animals or farm in general.

 

[redfornow]

But I'll bet you $5.00 to a donut that he doesn't do alright showing a decent income, putting little to nothing into his land, animals or farm in general.

He may not, I havnt looked at his books?
But I know the land is paid for the equipment is paid for.
And all he has done for all the years I have known him is farm. No outside income. He works hard, no doubt about that but there isnt much upkeep. Low inputs, average output.
Thats his goal, told me many times I am going about it the wrong way. lol
I was just pointing out a mentality of some older farmers.
Wouldnt know an EPD if it came after him.
To give you and idea he still runs a longhorn on all his heifers. :roll:
But if he ever sells his land he is a multi multi millionaire.
oh well it takes all kinds.

MD

 

[la4angus]

But if he ever sells his land he is a multi multi millionaire.
oh well it takes all kinds.

MD

There are many people and families like this.Even large families with each family member being a multi millionaire

 

[Cowboymom]

That may be true, but as I always tell people when they remark on how much our land is worth. "You can't take dirt to the grocery store!" If you sell the land, you have all this money, then what do you do? Can't quit ranching until all you money is gone~LOL!

 

[Keren]

Alan wrote:
My plan is to find a decent yearling or long yearling (virgin) BA bull for around $1000 and let him do clean up work after I AI my Herefords,


for that kind of money, you are going to end up with exactly what you are complaining about. commercial yearling heifers bring that.

you dont pay for papers, but you want to know the pedigree and calving ease? i want a million dollars and not have to pay taxes on it too.

Of course he will be able to know about calving ease and pedigree without paying for papers. It is not impossible. Its not even that difficult. There will be plenty of unregistered, commercial bulls that were out of stud cows, or commercial cows with known ancestry, and so their blood lines are known, even if they are not registered. As for calving ease, you certainly don't need an EPD for that. By looking at the bull's shape and asking the owner about his birth weight, the sire's birth weight and if he has produced any calves, their weights. A good producer will have these records, even if the cattle aren't registered. It's called RAW DATA, and IMO far more reliable than EPDs.

 

[redfornow]

Alan wrote:
My plan is to find a decent yearling or long yearling (virgin) BA bull for around $1000 and let him do clean up work after I AI my Herefords,


for that kind of money, you are going to end up with exactly what you are complaining about. commercial yearling heifers bring that.

you dont pay for papers, but you want to know the pedigree and calving ease? i want a million dollars and not have to pay taxes on it too.

Thats right more than one way to skin a cat.

Md


Of course he will be able to know about calving ease and pedigree without paying for papers. It is not impossible. Its not even that difficult. There will be plenty of unregistered, commercial bulls that were out of stud cows, or commercial cows with known ancestry, and so their blood lines are known, even if they are not registered. As for calving ease, you certainly don't need an EPD for that. By looking at the bull's shape and asking the owner about his birth weight, the sire's birth weight and if he has produced any calves, their weights. A good producer will have these records, even if the cattle aren't registered. It's called RAW DATA, and IMO far more reliable than EPDs.

 

[la4angus]

Of course he will be able to know about calving ease and pedigree without paying for papers. It is not impossible. Its not even that difficult. There will be plenty of unregistered, commercial bulls that were out of stud cows, or commercial cows with known ancestry, and so their blood lines are known, even if they are not registered. As for calving ease, you certainly don't need an EPD for that. By looking at the bull's shape and asking the owner about his birth weight, the sire's birth weight and if he has produced any calves, their weights. A good producer will have these records, even if the cattle aren't registered. It's called RAW DATA, and IMO far more reliable than EPDs.

The problem is all these hobby farmers and petting zoo owners think that to know anything they have to have a set of numbers called EPD's in front of them to look at. Only problem is most don't know what the EPD represents or what the numbers mean.

 

[llcupit]

Even with EPD's the numbers are only as good as the man who turns them in. I have always tried to be as acurate as I could be. I do know some who guess at birth weights and also lie about those 120 lb bull calves.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I sell purebred black bulls every year in the $1000-1500 price range. They are young weaned calves. They take them home, raise them out over the winter & use them next spring. In 2 years, they are back with cash from the sale of their well grown out bull that they shipped to market.
Mine are Simmental - but I'm sure Angus breeders sell their weaned bulls in the same price range - good breeders with quality cattle.
Now if you wait til they are grown out on the bull test program, they generally bring $1500-3000.