What would you do/what do you think -- Fire on your ground?

[Kathie in Thorp]

This is local -- and just what the newspaper says. I'm not going to say more than what the newspaper says at this time. I know every one of them. http://m.dailyrecordnews.com/member...156-9c14-11e4-a2df-c371c414dd98.html?mode=jqm

 

[highgrit]

I see nothing wrong with what he did. But his friend that called for help needs to pay a search and rescue fee of some sort. You should be able to do what you want with your life. But you have no right to put other folks lives in danger because of your choices.

 

[Nesikep]

I'd like to really know why they sent a search and rescue after him if he claims he made no distress call.. I would do what he did! Don't firefighters rush into burning buildings to save the family pets? It's also interesting to see that he says none of the fences were cut and no gates were opened.

I think all the skiiers and adrenaline junkies need to pay search and rescue fees first... People saving their cattle would be way further down on that list

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

I hope he beats the charges. I don't see where he done any thing wrong.

 

[Bigfoot]

personally, I don't trust any news source. It's why I quit reading and watching in 2008. I know the law enforcement/rescue types are there for the greater good of all. We need to respect their authority. He also didn't go in after his pet hampster either though. Be nice if they'd let him with a warning.

 

[M5farm]

I would have done the same thing being a land owner. Wild fire is different than a burning building or house. I've fought all of them, I've restrained homeowners trying to rescue fluffy and I have allowed landowners access to their property.

 

[highgrit]

Your responsible for your own well being. There's no way that anyone should be able to stop you from going to your property. If your willing to take the risk fine, but don't expect someone to risk their lives to try and rescue you.

 

[kenny thomas]

Hard for me to reply without stepping on toes but here goes. If it was my land I would probably have done just what he done. I have been in areas where evacuations and road closures happened. If he was imparing the firefighting efforts maybe there was a reason. The overhead teams usually recommend the closure to the county/state/town. From there it is the local law enforcement that handles things. There is procedure to meet with the overhead and work things out. He may or may not have tried that. Somehow I would have tried like he did to notlet the cattle burn. What is a fine when the lives and value of the cattle is at risk.
In 1998 in Florida all of Flagler Co. was evacuated. This was maybe 10 miles from Daytona Beech. I cannot say if it was needed or not but it happened.
In 2009 I was near Lake City, Fl and some areas were listed as evacuated but I saw people feeding horses and taking care of their animals. This was after the fire had calmed down.

 

[Deepsouth]

I don't see where he did anything wrong or should not have been allowed to do. As a matter of fact he should have been offered assistance instead of resistance. I agree with nesi that the person who made the distress call should be fined, if anyone actually did make a distress call. I also understand bigfoots point about not trusting news reports. I guess it's just me but in cases like this I tend to side with the property owner first and government second.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Now we are all need the government to hold our little hands and tell us what to and when we can do it.

 

[highgrit]

That's right, look what one punk terrorist did to Boston.

 

[Dave]

I would have thought that Tuffy was older than that. Maybe he always just looked old to me. He is one of those type of guys that law enforcement and firefighters might have trouble understanding. There are a few of that type still around although there are fewer and fewer all the time.

 

[greybeard]

Later that afternoon, a woman arrived at the Armory saying Morrison was trapped in the fire area.

/\ Filed a false report--she should be charged--not him.

A hurricane comes, and evacuation is ordered, they don't force you to leave--they just take your name and vital info so they know what to write on the "missing/presumed drowned" report after the storm has passed, and tell you they won't be coming to try to rescue you while the storm is raging--you're own your own--as it should be. They don't herd ya off your own property at the point of a gun, because here anyway, everyone still adhere's to that old line at the top of our Declaration of Independence.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness

I'm not sure just what part of Unalienable is being mis-understood in this instance.
It's all about 'control' and sounds like someone(s) has their panties in a wad over not being able to control someone else that is exercising their unalienable right to the pursuit of happiness.

 

[Nesikep]

Agreed greybeard!

We've had lots of evacuation notices around here.. The rule usually is that once you're out of the evacuation zone, you can't go back in... If you're in the town while its evacuated, you're 'confined' to your property.. All fine and dandy but there's lots of opportunistic thieves out there who'll raid your place if you leave.

On this farm, there's no chance in he## anyone could get me to leave.. We're on a bench, and have a lot of green grass.. the majority of the property will not burn, I'd put the cattle somewhere in the middle, and I'd probably take refuge in our root cellars if the smoke was too bad. Depending on if the fire was above us, I'd let the cows go down to the river where there'd probably be less smoke... no grass though.. I'd have to pick the lesser of two evils at that point.

 

[ChrisB]

I don't think he did anything that 99% of the population wouldn't do. I also don't feel the friend should be charged with filing a false report unless they can prove she knew he was not in danger. She was just worried and thinking the worst. Better that than not calling in when someone is in danger because you're afraid of being charged in case your wrong.

But I do understand the need to charge him even if the authorities personally believe he de did the right thing. If authorities start making it a habit letting people through roadblocks for various reasons eventually someone will be hurt or killed and lawyers would be all over that case saying law enforcement willingly let them enter into a dangerous situation. We can say all we want about taking responsibility for our own actions but with how busy our courts are it appears that once someone is hurt and they have huge medical expenses attitudes change in a hurry. And it is the tax payers that end up footing the bill.

 

[greybeard]

That slippery slope, where the bottom of the hill means you can get charged for anything and for no reason at all. Precedent means everything in law, and all it takes is one.

 

[shaneb]

Being a Professional fireman, I will give my opinion on this matter. I respond to idiots every day. We have a duty to act no matter what the circumstances are. People do stupid stuff every day and call for help. In this case, someone called and said someone needed help. The emergency response personnel done what any of us would do and that is go look for this person. We respond to calls every day that are not justifiable, ties us up from other true emergencies, and no one gets charged for it where I work. Now, as far as what the article states, and I say states because this is ONE side of the story, a man trying to protect his livelyhood went around the law to do it. I am a country boy and would do the same. A wildfire is a lot different than a structure fire. As a firefighter, I would have restrained him before letting him go into a structure. This was a forest fire that was threatening the area. He was familiar with his surroundings. He seemed to have experienced this situation before and knew what his risks were. I would have done the same thing as him. Someone made the comment about evacuations for hurricanes. Before Katrina hit, we done the same thing, as stated, in the city where I work. We cannot make people evacuate in some cases. We took their names, addresses, social security numbers, next of kin information, and date of births so we could advise family after the storm. People are going to do what it takes to protect their family and livelyhood. As for the ones who supposedly made the reports, who can say from the article that they didnt have an honest emergency. They could have heard the man say he needed help and automatically thought he was in a bind with the fire. It sounds like he just needed help with the cattle or getting his truck out of a bog. I do not see why anyone should be charged for making a false report because it was not deemed a false report until they found out the man was safe. We get paid to respond to any call for help. We do not always like what we find, especially when it is something very stupid, but we respond anyway. I was called to a house one time to get a pet bird out of a tree. I knew going there what I was called for but I responded anyway. I bet everyone knows the outcome of that. I will always answer the call no matter what. It is my job. As for the man getting charged, it all depends on what their laws are. I think they are trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill myself. They are trying to set an example of him. They lied to him about opening gates and tearing down fences. I would not have trusted them either when they told me that. Most likely the firefighters in the command post were not from that area anyway and just told him that to keep him out of the area.

 

[Nesikep]

I think there should be a signable waiver.. you are going there on your own.

The fellow said he never gave a call for help.

I'm not criticizing the people who responded to the call in any way. I think a 2 way radio would be a good thing to have in cases like that.. decent range and doesn't depend on cell phone towers (which are probably out of service anyhow).

 

[Dave]

The people at fire command posts being from out of the area is really being taken to task here after this last fire season. There is a number of cases where they really screwed up which allowed fires to spread and more damage to occur. One example was at the Carlton Complex fire they wouldn't hire local equipment but waited 10-12 hours for cheaper out of area equipment to arrive. Of course in that 10-12 hours the damage far exceeded the cost savings.

 

[greybeard]

They are trying to set an example of him.

Yep.
Control

Sept 13, 2008 found wife and I living in an apt in town, as we had already had our plans made to build a new house out here and we would live in town till the house was built. That, was the night/morning that Hurricane Ike came roaring ashore 93 miles from here. Evac orders were voluntary (all are really) and directions were to "hunker down". It didn't make landfall till 2am, but hurricane force winds in gusts extended out in all directions for 100 miles, were already here, had began around 10pm and our power went out shortly before 11am. Strong 2 story brick structure and we were on the lower floor so I felt pretty safe and we went to bed, fully dressed around midnight when the radio stopped broadcasting. Next morning, I woke up to a steady drone of wind and rain outside, fixed me a tuna sandwich and decided I needed to drive around town, and did. This, was nearly my first hurricane, and I knew it wasn't nearly over and I knew what we were in for.

I found trees, awnings, signs, roofs, powerlines and utility poles down all over the few streets I could get down, and the wind was blowing steady out of the North, which told me the storm was moving North and the eye passing to our East. I met only one other vehicle on the road that morning--a city police cruiser, meeting me going the opposite way. He just waved at me as he passed. Was going to call my wife and let her know I was going to drive the 9 miles out to where I now live, but there was no cell signal, so I went back to the apt, found my wife awake and up and told her of my plans to check on the cattle. She had never been in a hurricane and insisted on going with me (She's from Iowa/Ill).
Off we go, back into the storm, and come to the only way across US 59--a 4 lane that skirts our town--over an overpass. 59 runs N to S and by now, the wind is out of the west, which tells me the storm's circular wind pattern on it's back end is now upon us. No other traffic at all, either on the overpass or down on the 4 lane, so I slowly ventured out on the overpass, with the wind blowing against the left (driver's) side of the truck and raindrops sounding like hammers on my side window.

I thought I had made a huge mistake as I got about 1/2 way across--as much as I tried, the wind was pushing the truck sideways to the right on the wet slick pavement and a couple times I was inches from the cement guardrail on the right side. I got across ok, but we didn't get far afterwards, maybe a mile before we came to downed trees blocking the farm to market road, so I turned around and started back, already thinking about that overpass and the danger it presented as I started back. This time, the wind would be on my wife's side. The rain had slacked off some, but 80-100mph gusts can make a raindrop hurt. Told wife, to move her seat all the way back, tilt the seat back and the rear window would keep the wind and rain off her. I rolled my window down, to give the wind somewhere to blow thru, and we made it back across with no problem, met that same police car and again he just waved and we went on back to the apt after driving around a bit. The officer made no attempt to flag me down or anything else either time we passed. Perhaps he understood what "unalienable" means.