what the heck??

[cattleluvr18]

i hate askin this cuz its one of those questions that the oldtimers complain about.but....

tonite when i get home i find that one of our feeder heifers died. went and looked at her. she was bloated big time. ok so i think of possible causes. which could be anything. current feed:oats, soy hull pellet, and free choice brome hay. the hay is fresh, just baled this pass weekend. but it was pretty dry when it was cut, it layed there a couple of day before gettin baled, and then it sat there a couple of days before it got fed. im wonderin if the brome is too green?? i kinda doubt it. these guys are approximatly around 400 pounds. so then i think of black leg. looked up the symptoms and it kinda sounds like it. but still preying that its just bloat. crap, now what do i do??

 

[rockridgecattle]

I'm not an old timer yet, but if you really want to know, call the vet and get an auptosy done.

RR

 

[msscamp]

How long had she been dead? Is it possible that the bloat was a byproduct of her death? As far as the feed - I've never known/heard of any animal bloating on grass hay without an underlying cause. Oats don't carry much potential for bloat either, since they are mostly fiber and low protein. I don't know the first thing about soy hull pellets, though, might that be part of the problem? Can you call your vet and talk to him about the potential blackleg possibility? The only way you're going to know for sure is through an autopsy.

 

[Aaron]

If you haven't been vaccinating for blackleg, could very well be it. Animal with it is dead within 24 hours. Comes back positive, burn the carcass and vaccinate all cattle pronto.

 

[cattleluvr18]

i have no idea how long she was dead. i got home at around 10 o'clock last nite. i left at about 6 so sometime between then.

i thought i read on here one time that if it was black leg then their front legs would be crunchy or something like that. is that true or is that for something else??

 

[Aaron]

Yes. Swelling on the legs should make a cracking sound under pressure.

 

[cattleluvr18]

there was no swelling on the legs. and i did feel them and they were hard. oh yeah, there was blood coming outta her mouth if that makes a dif.

 

[KNERSIE]

could also be malignent edema or gas gangrene. Also clostridium, but the strain is septicum and not chavoei as in the case of blackleg. All the symptoms match.

Cut into the meat, if its a dark colour its most likely blackleg, if normal gas gangrene gets my vote. Send a meat sample to a lab ASAP, you'll need to know what to vaccinate for.

 

[Vicky the vet]

Blood coming out of the mouth, nose, anus, etc. usually does indicate a death from black leg. quote]

Ummmm.....sorry, no it doesn't. It usually indicates anthrax, which is unlikely the cause here. Broken blood vessels from lack of oxygen from a massively enlarged rumen can certainly cause blood out the nose. In other words, sometimes a bloat is just a bloat.....

 

[Bama]

My money would be on Vickys assessment. And I think she will agree with me all of the above are just guesses. Hers is an educated guess though. Without posting it its nearlly impossible to say for sure. When i have that happen I call it died of DUFOD. Done Up and Fell Over Dead.

 

[Aaron]

Guess Vicky beat me too it. Blood coming out all the orifices sounds like anthrax. Has it been a wet spring? That will provide suitable conditions for the spores to come out. We had up this way in 2002/03, first time since 1947.

 

[Beefy]

well i read in an article one time that said bleeding from the nose can be caused from falling from way up high, like out of a spaceship or from a black helicopter. so clearly, that must be the cause.


Dont EVEN try to make out like Vicky doesnt know what shes talking about. Vicky would make you look like a fool if you hadnt already done it yourself.

cattleluvr18, i think your calf probably bloated. you mentioned something earlier about the front legs being crunchy if it was blackleg. its whichever leg is swollen that is crunchy, not necessarily front legs. in fact all the blackleg cases i've seen that i can recall, it was a back leg that was swollen and crunchy, like fritos.

 

[ROCKSPRINGS]

Shame on all of you for not agreeing with Dr. know it all, do it all, done it all, did it all, cut and paste king, and master cattle producer ect. The nerve of you all, :o : :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[msscamp]

Rocksprings, do I detect a non-believer in Cowboyup's abilities? :lol:

 

[cattleluvr18]

thanks guys. ya'll made me feel better about it. i had a heck of a time sleepin last nite. i was so worried.

but she wasnt bleedin out her nose, it was her mouth, she had bubbles comin out her nose. i felt all of her legs. they were hard. if it even makes a differnce anymore.

 

[ROCKSPRINGS]

Rocksprings, do I detect a non-believer in Cowboyup's abilities? :lol:

Yes you do..I read the same books and look at the same web sights as he does but I don't claim to be some sort of expert about everything under the sun. It would be nice if he had hands on experience, then he could help more people instead of all the BS. No matter what is posted, he has been there,and done it and done it better than anyone.

 

[Beefy]

bloat can cause foaming, as well as lightning, and i'm sure other ailments/causes of death can as well.

 

[msscamp]

Rocksprings, do I detect a non-believer in Cowboyup's abilities? :lol:

Yes you do..I read the same books and look at the same web sights as he does but I don't claim to be some sort of expert about everything under the sun. It would be nice if he had hands on experience, then he could help more people instead of all the BS. No matter what is posted, he has been there,and done it and done it better than anyone.

Well said! :)

 

[Aaron]

Oh and Aaron I have much respect for you as you are usually spot on but this comes from the government in CANADA are you telling me your government vets are wrong? If I am not mistaken vicky arent you from CANADA to. Its ashamed that you are not aware what your own government vets are putting out there on the internet. Do not get me wrong I know there are different provinces in Canada just like there are different states in the United States. I also know that things vary differently depending on one's geographical location. However, if this is put out as a learning tool and it is incorrect perhaps you guys should lobby to get it changed so newbies out there dont get ahold of misinformation. So who is right and who is wrong? Vicky or the Canadian Government vets?

http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department ... /agdex4140

Cowboy, only basing my comments on stuff I am familiar with. Have lost animals to blackleg, neighbours have lost to anthrax. From my experience, both are quick killers, but anthrax leaves a much 'messier' corpse. If there is a lot of blood, and I mean pools, I would lead toward anthrax. I have no comment on our federal vets (I've only ever met one)....heck...we don't even have a local one in our neck of the woods now, so all the producers rely on each other's collective knowledge to diagnose and treat stuff around here...unless it is of epidemic proportions...then we might try to get a Fed-Vet in to lend a diagnostic hand.

 

[Outrigger2]

sounds like bloat. it kills fast too....