What Sells Bulls in Kentucky

[mwj]

Why in the world would you be doing AI in the mud at 10PM? That would be a turn off to a lot of potential customers. As far as those city people go, they are the ones that eat the product we produce.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Why in the world would you be doing AI in the mud at 10PM? That would be a turn off to a lot of potential customers. As far as those city people go, they are the ones that eat the product we produce.

Ok

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Unfortunately, true, but keep in mind, most producers in Kentucky don't do this for a living. The average herd size is 20 brood cows. The demographics, job market, poverty level, etc is such that spending money on bulls is not justified.

The UK Extension program makes an effort in conjunction with the County Cattle Boards to promote better animal husbandry. The CAIP program is part of that effort and provides cost share money for genetic improvement, water systems, handling facilities, etc.

I fully understand. There has been a history on this site over the past decade of folks taking offense to the reputation.

I don't know how you go about fixing it as the culture is ingrained deeply and it really doesn't do a lot of good for only a handful of folks to have better cattle as you still have to fill the pot with the odds and ends to get them West to the feed.

It's an interesting dilemma that I don't have a good answer for. 10-40 cow herds that calve year round provide great opportunity for traders in the market to work with so I don't see there being enough economic incentive for the management on these operations to change.

biggest reason....it's hard to soar like a eagle,when surrounded by buzzards..

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I'm my area of Ky price plays a pretty big part in bull sales. Getting over $1500-1800 will be pretty tough no matter how good the bull is.

Most want to buy a 5-6 month old bull calf for $6-800 and take a chance versus buying a mature semen tested bull for $2000

Last time I paid $800 for a bull was in the 80's.... breeding age Simm..and actually one of the best ones I've had in the past..

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I fully understand. There has been a history on this site over the past decade of folks taking offense to the reputation.

I don't know how you go about fixing it as the culture is ingrained deeply and it really doesn't do a lot of good for only a handful of folks to have better cattle as you still have to fill the pot with the odds and ends to get them West to the feed.

It's an interesting dilemma that I don't have a good answer for. 10-40 cow herds that calve year round provide great opportunity for traders in the market to work with so I don't see there being enough economic incentive for the management on these operations to change.

It is not only Kentucky, other states in the SE share in the problem.

I have had the opportunity to get exposure to the cattle practices in Missouri. They do it better there and it is reflected in the prices.

The logistics of getting our calves to the feedlots plays a roll in our lower prices. I drive 2.5 hours to sell a load of slaughter cows for a $100 more per head than we get locally. But the management practices from the small to fairly large operations can be some of the best to some of the worst. Most of my neighbors won't even vaccinate for blackleg much less anything else, and some run 300 momma cows. Every calf gets trailer weaned and sold right along with calves that have been worked and bunk broke. We deserve our crappy reputation in the southeast, but there's also a lot of quality cattle produced here, CHEAP. I recommend that anyone who wants a better animal for their $dollars to come on down and look around. We're just getting started with our bull and cow sales, and as a bonus it's 73 degrees and the sun is shinning.

You touched on one of the many problems outside of genetics..no back grounding ...the buyers gotta go to ground zero with those trailer weaners ...weight loss and stress,Bulls still intact...making em easy prey for those $700 bull buyers :cowboy:

 

[Midtenn]

I fully understand. There has been a history on this site over the past decade of folks taking offense to the reputation.

I don't know how you go about fixing it as the culture is ingrained deeply and it really doesn't do a lot of good for only a handful of folks to have better cattle as you still have to fill the pot with the odds and ends to get them West to the feed.

It's an interesting dilemma that I don't have a good answer for. 10-40 cow herds that calve year round provide great opportunity for traders in the market to work with so I don't see there being enough economic incentive for the management on these operations to change.

I don't take offense at all, I'm actually glad you are saying what you have said. I say it all the time around here and I feel like people in the cattle business can't stand me. Who cares! I will never be an advocate of trying to market sick, low-quality cattle. I'm tired of hearing the excuses by producers that find any reason in the book to raise dregs, the sorriest looking cattle you can imagine, and then claim "well it's not my main profession" or "it's only a small herd so that's why I don't give a sh...t" I chalk it up to either laziness, or ignorance, maybe a combination of both. Kentucky has massive opportunities in the cattle business, but we would rather focus on coal miners, and how we aren't like the "big boys" out west. By the way, I have nothing against miners, but there are a lot more farmers than miners in Kentucky.

There is absolutely no reason why a small herd cannot be a HIGH-QUALITY small herd. When dairy was strong in Kentucky those farmers would not have even dreamed of treating their dairy cattle as poorly as beef cattle are treated here. There was great pride in what they owned, they used AI, and they kept those cattle in great condition. There are abandoned silos everywhere you look around here, barns filled with junk instead of working cattle equipment, etc. People have just given up! Yes, there are a few dedicated souls who put out a great product, but you have to sort through a lot to find them.

I guess it's way too much work to rotationally graze, watch your cattle a couple times a day, buy a good bull, retain the daughters and then repeat the process. That's FAR TOO COMPLICATED and labor intensive. Complaining about how bad things are is an easier route, but not necessarily a successful one.

Well said. Most farmers around here like to set in the coffee shop and Bi$@h and moan about being broke. I've worked 100+ hours a week ever since I got out of high school. Atleast I've earned the right to complain about being poor. All these old timers going under has worked in my favor. They are too stubborn to pick up on modern ways. SoI'm right there to take over their ground after the bank "retirement auction"

I'm right in that boat with you. All my rented places are from older folks who didn't want the headache anymore. Younger guys my age and younger generally try to do things right but the older ones some never did and some just got too old to manage things like they should.

 

[Midtenn]

It is not only Kentucky, other states in the SE share in the problem.

I have had the opportunity to get exposure to the cattle practices in Missouri. They do it better there and it is reflected in the prices.

The logistics of getting our calves to the feedlots plays a roll in our lower prices. I drive 2.5 hours to sell a load of slaughter cows for a $100 more per head than we get locally. But the management practices from the small to fairly large operations can be some of the best to some of the worst. Most of my neighbors won't even vaccinate for blackleg much less anything else, and some run 300 momma cows. Every calf gets trailer weaned and sold right along with calves that have been worked and bunk broke. We deserve our crappy reputation in the southeast, but there's also a lot of quality cattle produced here, CHEAP. I recommend that anyone who wants a better animal for their $dollars to come on down and look around. We're just getting started with our bull and cow sales, and as a bonus it's 73 degrees and the sun is shinning.

You touched on one of the many problems outside of genetics..no back grounding ...the buyers gotta go to ground zero with those trailer weaners ...weight loss and stress,Bulls still intact...making em easy prey for those $700 bull buyers :cowboy:

Those of us who background are trying to make as much profit per cow as possible. It takes extra hours and I could say many times those hours don't end up paying very well. I can see why many small part timers don't go to the trouble. Heck I know some that never even worm, vaccinate, or even put out mineral. I would venture a guess they probably clear nearly as much per cow as I do. I think part of the problem in our area is you see the same order buyers at graded sales that are buying at the regular sales. We don't get nearly the premium we deserve for preconditioned calves, even in pot loads. I'm going to stick to it for now because I do believe the tide will turn in the near future. I sure hope so.

 

[CattleMan1920]

I'm right in that boat with you. All my rented places are from older folks who didn't want the headache anymore. Younger guys my age and younger generally try to do things right but the older ones some never did and some just got too old to manage things like they should.

The Amish have come from up north and purchased MANY nice farms in this area, and they work them pretty hard. Other than that they are usually snapped up by wealthy people who are adding as much land as they can to their holdings. There are also syndicates that are pooling money and buying up farmland for investment purposes. VERY FEW people are saying "hey, I have a great idea, let me go buy a farm and try to raise cattle from scratch" Few people are prepared for the cap ex required to do that, there are high barriers to entry with land cost being the top expense.

As Lexington becomes more populated I expect the areas within a 50 mile radius to become more crowded and properties that were once farms will be subdivided into little 10-15 acre mini farms, with very nice homes on them. I already see it happening around me.

 

[CattleMan1920]

The logistics of getting our calves to the feedlots plays a roll in our lower prices. I drive 2.5 hours to sell a load of slaughter cows for a $100 more per head than we get locally. But the management practices from the small to fairly large operations can be some of the best to some of the worst. Most of my neighbors won't even vaccinate for blackleg much less anything else, and some run 300 momma cows. Every calf gets trailer weaned and sold right along with calves that have been worked and bunk broke. We deserve our crappy reputation in the southeast, but there's also a lot of quality cattle produced here, CHEAP. I recommend that anyone who wants a better animal for their $dollars to come on down and look around. We're just getting started with our bull and cow sales, and as a bonus it's 73 degrees and the sun is shinning.

You touched on one of the many problems outside of genetics..no back grounding ...the buyers gotta go to ground zero with those trailer weaners ...weight loss and stress,Bulls still intact...making em easy prey for those $700 bull buyers :cowboy:

Those of us who background are trying to make as much profit per cow as possible. It takes extra hours and I could say many times those hours don't end up paying very well. I can see why many small part timers don't go to the trouble. Heck I know some that never even worm, vaccinate, or even put out mineral. I would venture a guess they probably clear nearly as much per cow as I do. I think part of the problem in our area is you see the same order buyers at graded sales that are buying at the regular sales. We don't get nearly the premium we deserve for preconditioned calves, even in pot loads. I'm going to stick to it for now because I do believe the tide will turn in the near future. I sure hope so.

We get cleaned out in Kentucky, and that is by design in my opinion.

Also, skipping blackleg vaccinations is like rolling dice. Good luck!

 

[ALACOWMAN]

The logistics of getting our calves to the feedlots plays a roll in our lower prices. I drive 2.5 hours to sell a load of slaughter cows for a $100 more per head than we get locally. But the management practices from the small to fairly large operations can be some of the best to some of the worst. Most of my neighbors won't even vaccinate for blackleg much less anything else, and some run 300 momma cows. Every calf gets trailer weaned and sold right along with calves that have been worked and bunk broke. We deserve our crappy reputation in the southeast, but there's also a lot of quality cattle produced here, CHEAP. I recommend that anyone who wants a better animal for their $dollars to come on down and look around. We're just getting started with our bull and cow sales, and as a bonus it's 73 degrees and the sun is shinning.

You touched on one of the many problems outside of genetics..no back grounding ...the buyers gotta go to ground zero with those trailer weaners ...weight loss and stress,Bulls still intact...making em easy prey for those $700 bull buyers :cowboy:

Those of us who background are trying to make as much profit per cow as possible. It takes extra hours and I could say many times those hours don't end up paying very well. I can see why many small part timers don't go to the trouble. Heck I know some that never even worm, vaccinate, or even put out mineral. I would venture a guess they probably clear nearly as much per cow as I do. I think part of the problem in our area is you see the same order buyers at graded sales that are buying at the regular sales. We don't get nearly the premium we deserve for preconditioned calves, even in pot loads. I'm going to stick to it for now because I do believe the tide will turn in the near future. I sure hope so.

I'm Bettin' the tide will most likely be turned for us...whether folks like it or not...

 

[CattleMan1920]

I'm Bettin' the tide will most likely be turned for us...whether folks like it or not...

Especially if the West becomes drought-stricken which could happen.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

You touched on one of the many problems outside of genetics..no back grounding ...the buyers gotta go to ground zero with those trailer weaners ...weight loss and stress,Bulls still intact...making em easy prey for those $700 bull buyers :cowboy:

Those of us who background are trying to make as much profit per cow as possible. It takes extra hours and I could say many times those hours don't end up paying very well. I can see why many small part timers don't go to the trouble. Heck I know some that never even worm, vaccinate, or even put out mineral. I would venture a guess they probably clear nearly as much per cow as I do. I think part of the problem in our area is you see the same order buyers at graded sales that are buying at the regular sales. We don't get nearly the premium we deserve for preconditioned calves, even in pot loads. I'm going to stick to it for now because I do believe the tide will turn in the near future. I sure hope so.

Also, skipping blackleg vaccinations is like rolling dice. Good luck!

It keeps the buzzards happy if nothing else...

 

[CattleMan1920]

Those of us who background are trying to make as much profit per cow as possible. It takes extra hours and I could say many times those hours don't end up paying very well. I can see why many small part timers don't go to the trouble. Heck I know some that never even worm, vaccinate, or even put out mineral. I would venture a guess they probably clear nearly as much per cow as I do. I think part of the problem in our area is you see the same order buyers at graded sales that are buying at the regular sales. We don't get nearly the premium we deserve for preconditioned calves, even in pot loads. I'm going to stick to it for now because I do believe the tide will turn in the near future. I sure hope so.

Also, skipping blackleg vaccinations is like rolling dice. Good luck!

It keeps the buzzards happy if nothing else...

There are no shortage of them here

 

[jd720]

The stockyard I sell at is right on the border of Kentucky and I`m always amazed that some of the cattle are such poor quality but the guys always have a nearly new $70,000 Power Stroke to haul them in there with. I saw some Charolais being unloaded today that if you painted them white with black spots would`ve passed for poor quality Holsteins. Some of the cattle I`ve seen there have been good quality but those are few and far between yet they still get the best prices for this area. I really think some of these guys just keep one of their bull calves back and let them just run with the cows till he`s old enough to breed them it`s cheaper that way is what they would say or they may just get their bulls from cousin Billy Bob or some other dip wad down the road who knows. It seems there`s a lot of the that's how Dad and Grandpa did it and it was good enough for them so It`s good enough for me thinking. Most wouldn`t have a clue what EPD`s are or care to learn and I don`t see that changing anytime soon. I have a small herd of 25 cows and most of the calves are A.I sired because I`m always trying to improve my herd and I want to be proud of the calves I sell whether they`re being sold as breeding stock or just going to the sale barn if I ever had to sell calves that looked like the calves I saw today I would just quit raising cattle completely.

 

[Midtenn]

The stockyard I sell at is right on the border of Kentucky and I`m always amazed that some of the cattle are such poor quality but the guys always have a nearly new $70,000 Power Stroke to haul them in there with. I saw some Charolais being unloaded today that if you painted them white with black spots would`ve passed for poor quality Holsteins. Some of the cattle I`ve seen there have been good quality but those are few and far between yet they still get the best prices for this area. I really think some of these guys just keep one of their bull calves back and let them just run with the cows till he`s old enough to breed them it`s cheaper that way is what they would say or they may just get their bulls from cousin Billy Bob or some other dip wad down the road who knows. It seems there`s a lot of the that's how Dad and Grandpa did it and it was good enough for them so It`s good enough for me thinking. Most wouldn`t have a clue what EPD`s are or care to learn and I don`t see that changing anytime soon. I have a small herd of 25 cows and most of the calves are A.I sired because I`m always trying to improve my herd and I want to be proud of the calves I sell whether they`re being sold as breeding stock or just going to the sale barn if I ever had to sell calves that looked like the calves I saw today I would just quit raising cattle completely.

I did see on feeder flash where maysville ky sale had a load of 837# steers bring $145. That's pretty dang good for anywhere especially this side of the river. Can anybody explain that?

 

[CattleMan1920]

The stockyard I sell at is right on the border of Kentucky and I`m always amazed that some of the cattle are such poor quality but the guys always have a nearly new $70,000 Power Stroke to haul them in there with. I saw some Charolais being unloaded today that if you painted them white with black spots would`ve passed for poor quality Holsteins. Some of the cattle I`ve seen there have been good quality but those are few and far between yet they still get the best prices for this area. I really think some of these guys just keep one of their bull calves back and let them just run with the cows till he`s old enough to breed them it`s cheaper that way is what they would say or they may just get their bulls from cousin Billy Bob or some other dip wad down the road who knows. It seems there`s a lot of the that's how Dad and Grandpa did it and it was good enough for them so It`s good enough for me thinking. Most wouldn`t have a clue what EPD`s are or care to learn and I don`t see that changing anytime soon. I have a small herd of 25 cows and most of the calves are A.I sired because I`m always trying to improve my herd and I want to be proud of the calves I sell whether they`re being sold as breeding stock or just going to the sale barn if I ever had to sell calves that looked like the calves I saw today I would just quit raising cattle completely.

I don't think you could have said it any better.

BTW. Same thing around here, except 2018 or newer Chevy duallys with Featherlite or Wilson trailers hauling cattle that look like they will be relieved when that captive bolt hits them square between the eyes. Those trucks don't come from cattle, that's from their main job.

 

[True Grit Farms]

I'm an experimenter and always ask myself why and why not. I'm pushing my cows hard right now and we'll see what happens when we start calving next month. But I will always castrate and vaccinate with Covexin 8 -Calvary 9 and HB Triangle 10. You can't take short cuts on your calves. There your bread and butter.

 

[Ky hills]

The stockyard I sell at is right on the border of Kentucky and I`m always amazed that some of the cattle are such poor quality but the guys always have a nearly new $70,000 Power Stroke to haul them in there with. I saw some Charolais being unloaded today that if you painted them white with black spots would`ve passed for poor quality Holsteins. Some of the cattle I`ve seen there have been good quality but those are few and far between yet they still get the best prices for this area. I really think some of these guys just keep one of their bull calves back and let them just run with the cows till he`s old enough to breed them it`s cheaper that way is what they would say or they may just get their bulls from cousin Billy Bob or some other dip wad down the road who knows. It seems there`s a lot of the that's how Dad and Grandpa did it and it was good enough for them so It`s good enough for me thinking. Most wouldn`t have a clue what EPD`s are or care to learn and I don`t see that changing anytime soon. I have a small herd of 25 cows and most of the calves are A.I sired because I`m always trying to improve my herd and I want to be proud of the calves I sell whether they`re being sold as breeding stock or just going to the sale barn if I ever had to sell calves that looked like the calves I saw today I would just quit raising cattle completely.

I did see on feeder flash where maysville ky sale had a load of 837# steers bring $145. That's pretty dang good for anywhere especially this side of the river. Can anybody explain that?

I typically go to the sale in Maysville, KY several times during the year, to buy stocker calves. It is fairly common to see a few larger load lots sell on a given week. The larger groups are comprised of calves that have been raised and held over for a while on farm, or more usual, calves that have been bought as stockers and assembled into a large group. Almost always those big groups of larger calves are of good quality.
While there is some truth to what some of the folks are saying in previous posts, about low quality cattle, there are also some very good calves to come through the sale rings in KY.

 

[Bright Raven]

I have a question for you simi guys. What is the appeal of the blaze face? I know buyers seem to want a blaze, but my question is why? Is it just a visual preference thing? Does it add value to the calves? Anytype of added preformance? Don't think I'm bashing you guys, just never understood the simi blaze.

The White Blaze on a Black Simmental has widespread appeal. It adds a premium to most Simmental Cattle. As evidence, the semen companies have added Blaze face bulls to their line ups. Look at the Simmental line ups at Select Sires and Genex, you see bulls that sport the white Blaze or white face - HPF Optimizer, Broadway, Lock N Load 1143Y, Live Ammo, Allegiance.

It is not something new and it is not a Fad. That is a prevailing misconception on this Forum. If you look back at the Sires of the Simmental Breed, many sported blaze or white faces. In fact, what became a "fad" (not really a fad) with the success of CAB, was the totally black Simmental. There is a poster that I have that was published by ASA entitled "Sires of the Simmental Breed". In the central photo are 4 bull's faces - 3 of the 4 are Blazed.

Many of the Patriarch bulls of the Simmental breed sported white faces, in fact, some sported white all over, example, Meyer Ranch 734.

I would be remiss to not mention Built Right N48 and Steel Force S701.

 

[pdfangus]

I'm my area of Ky price plays a pretty big part in bull sales. Getting over $1500-1800 will be pretty tough no matter how good the bull is.

Most want to buy a 5-6 month old bull calf for $6-800 and take a chance versus buying a mature semen tested bull for $2000

I can't imagine being that much of a dumb a$$.

not only is it done.....
I have had commercial producers with just cows... buy a decent but from me and then sell the better sons as weanlings to their friends....marketing them as sons of my bull.....had people come and tell me how happy they were with the son of my bull they got from XXX....

I would just tell them to think about how much happier they would be if they had one of my bulls of their own....some would come back later and buy and others kept up the discount route.

had people all the time who wanted to buy a weanling....

the best way I found to combat that is I would point to the weanling bulls and say "Sure....there is probably a $5000 dollar bull in that bunch but I don't yet know which one it is....if you can find him you can buy him today." then I would point to the bulls for sale and say for $$$$ ( the price of the given bull) you can have that one who is ready to go.

No one ever opted to buy the $5000 weanling.