What is "too" expensive?

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Is it relevant to the price you can get for the offspring?
For PB breeders, what is the lowest price you offer to sell your heifers? Not your bottom end that should go to the feedlot, but your good PB replacement heifers?
Maybe I should not ask that to be posted. My bottom end heifers would be priced at $2000. I would make package deals at a lower price, or a break to a previous buyer.
If I spent $100 for semen, and I had to breed a cow twice, that's $200 invested in a "better" pedigree. I'm not talking about the "new and upcoming bull" that you have no idea what his offspring is going to look like, but a popular bull that has proven himself. I would "expect" the offspring to be at the middle or top end of my calf crop. Even if it ended up in the lower end, that's $2000 - $200 = $1800. I easily re-coop my investment on semen.
Is this too much for you? How do you justify or not justify the cost of AI or even a herd bull?

 

[True Grit Farms]

I wouldn't give $1k for a bred heifer right now. Right now it's a buyers market, decent to really good middle aged, heavy bred cows can be bought for less than a $800. all day every day. I sold a old bred cull cow for $0.34 a few weeks ago like an idiot. Now is the time to be buying cattle, not selling cattle.

 

[Silver]

I'd have to agree that now is not a good time to sell if it can be avoided, not everyone has the luxury to hold on. In light of how the market has been sliding I'm pretty glad I sold when I did. I sold empty cull heifers for $1,700 and cull cows for $1,100 three weeks ago. Bred commercial cattle where selling for a bid over meat prices even then. Things have fallen off considerably since then.
If I were in a place where I wanted to buy breds I can't imagine buying heifers unless I had to. I'd far sooner buy a young bred cow. But that's just me and I don't buy breds. I do think $2,000 USD is probably quite a fair price for a quality purebred animal, if you are selling into a purebred market, but you'd have to be a very optimistic commercial breeder to pay that kind of money.
We used to figure the cost of a bull to be worth the price of 4 steer calves. Over the last few years bulls have gotten cheaper on this basis and good bulls can generally be purchased for the price of about 3 good steer calves. Unless of course you get involved in the spring bull sales where all bets are off.

 

[Bright Raven]

Is it relevant to the price you can get for the offspring?
For PB breeders, what is the lowest price you offer to sell your heifers? Not your bottom end that should go to the feedlot, but your good PB replacement heifers?
Maybe I should not ask that to be posted. My bottom end heifers would be priced at $2000. I would make package deals at a lower price, or a break to a previous buyer.
If I spent $100 for semen, and I had to breed a cow twice, that's $200 invested in a "better" pedigree. I'm not talking about the "new and upcoming bull" that you have no idea what his offspring is going to look like, but a popular bull that has proven himself. I would "expect" the offspring to be at the middle or top end of my calf crop. Even if it ended up in the lower end, that's $2000 - $200 = $1800. I easily re-coop my investment on semen.
Is this too much for you? How do you justify or not justify the cost of AI or even a herd bull?

Jeanne. The CAIP Program has a huge influence on bred heifer prices in our region. The program is designed to encourage genetic improvement, therefore, buyers are looking for higher end cattle. In a registered CAIP market, my bred heifers are sold registered and meet or exceed the CAIP program criteria as guaranteed to DNA test to the bull that I list as the Sire.

With regard to price, I can get $2000 for bred heifers that meet those criteria during the CAIP season. My problem is that I tend to have more bull calves than heifer calves. So my numbers are low. I only sold 4 heifers this year.

Regarding what is too high. It depends on the quality. I got a couple heifer calves right now that I will keep unless someone is willing to pay my price.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Sorry - I totally worded this wrong.
I read another post and someone commented that they LOVED a certain bull, but they hadn't purchased semen on him when he was cheap, and now he was too expensive. What's too expensive if he is proven and you are trying to upgrade your quality?
I had that in mind when I posted. I was referring to how much you could afford to pay for semen (or a natural service bull).

 

[Nesikep]

for a PB operation where people look at the pedigree and chase EPD's, I don't know if there's an upper limit to semen price.. For a commercial breeder, the only thing that matters is that it pencils out.

Regarding the heifer, if you're able to get $2K for a lower end heifer, good on you!, The PB heifer calf I just got I paid $1095 USD for at about 800 lbs, 10 months old and she was the one that caught my eye of the bunch.. she's not without flaws but she should make a good cow.
I'm looking at a coming 2 year old PB bull and I can get him for about $1825 USD

Must be nice to get subsidies

 

[Bright Raven]

Sorry - I totally worded this wrong.
I read another post and someone commented that they LOVED a certain bull, but they hadn't purchased semen on him when he was cheap, and now he was too expensive. What's too expensive if he is proven and you are trying to upgrade your quality?
I had that in mind when I posted. I was referring to how much you could afford to pay for semen (or a natural service bull).

I have never paid more than $35 a straw. If I want to make a leap forward in genetics, I would rather buy an embryo that is a cross between a great bull and a great cow. There are some exciting embryos out there for $350 a piece. Why pay $200 for only a straw of semen?

 

[Son of Butch]

Too expensive is relative.
2018 Lamborghini Aventador list price $402,000 is too expensive for me.
But for Bill Gates buying one would impact his net worth about as much as buying a Coke impacts mine.

Not to brag, but I'm a thousandaire and have enough cash in my pocket to buy a 24 can pack right now. :tiphat:

 

[Bestoutwest]

My personal experience: I paid $2250 for an AI heifer. She was priced at $1600, but he kept her for 9 months, fed her and AI'd her at his expense (ultimately mine), but the big thing is that I didn't have to mess with it and he monitored the whole process. Paid all the vet fees, etc. on her. I picked her up in October confirmed bred by the vet. Where I don't think it was overpriced is that the breeder and I had agreed on another heifer that came up open and he picked this as her replacement, and honestly, I think it's a better calf.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

My personal experience: I paid $2250 for an AI heifer. She was priced at $1600, but he kept her for 9 months, fed her and AI'd her at his expense (ultimately mine), but the big thing is that I didn't have to mess with it and he monitored the whole process. Paid all the vet fees, etc. on her. I picked her up in October confirmed bred by the vet. Where I don't think it was overpriced is that the breeder and I had agreed on another heifer that came up open and he picked this as her replacement, and honestly, I think it's a better calf.

I sold a couple kinda like that. Sold for $2500, but kept all winter & bred for a Feb. - got $3000 in the end.
Open weaned heifers are my "money makers", so to speak. My high end calves go mostly for show cattle, but a lot of times just to someone wanting to improve their genetics.
Price is mostly based on how much I want to keep in my herd. Looks, structure, genetics (cow family), temperament - all go into the picture. But, most of my semen runs $35 - $100. I have paid $150 and $200 and was not disappointed. Those are usually privately purchased and "most" breeders do not have access to, so makes offspring "desirable".

 

[NEFarmwife]

As for semen, we’ve found that our top dollar is $40. But wouldn’t hesitate to spend more if we felt the mating was right. Or, we planned to flush.

I.E. Herbsters straws are more pricey than the average bull but you’re buying more semen per. I don’t know that it makes a whole lot of difference but that’s the way they market it.

I thought when doing inventory, we had 12 straws of Sensation. I was disappointed to learn they’re embryos. So, given that I’m set on breeding one of our cows to Sensation... I’d likely to pay more for a straw than our range.

 

[wbvs58]

Our average price for good quality bulls is around $50 and I try to keep to that figure but if I want it I'll buy it up to about $120.

Strangely most of the expensive semen here is of unproven bulls that have topped the sale of the flavour of the year breeder. I guess the buyers are looking to get a quick return on their investment. I avoid these unproven fad genetics like the plague. In fact I avoid most local genetics as I believe they are just chasing high index values in their EBV's.

Ken

 

[jd720]

I`ve always felt that $50 - $100 semen was pretty cheap when used on the right cows and you get a nice heifer compared to what good registered heifers will cost. That`s just my opinion but I try to the best out of the cows I`ve paid good money for to build a better herd. The goal should be to for the heifer to be a better looking and doing cow than her dam was and paying a little more just makes sense to me.

 

[WinterSpringsFarm]

Jeanne, I fully understand your question....and for me to AI with 75-100 is plenty. To flush with I really don't have a limit if I feel its the right breeding. I pretty much always use proven bulls and will rarely be on the cutting edge of genetics as I just don't have the cow numbers needed to experiment.

Females I have for sale generally start at 2500.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Jeanne, I fully understand your question....and for me to AI with 75-100 is plenty. To flush with I really don't have a limit if I feel its the right breeding. I pretty much always use proven bulls and will rarely be on the cutting edge of genetics as I just don't have the cow numbers needed to experiment.

Females I have for sale generally start at 2500.

Sure seems like a lot of money to pay for hamburger.

 

[lithuanian farmer]

We rarely spend more than $20 for one cover. Could pay up to 70 if it was worth it. But here the prices for cattle are lower compared to yours. We sell our heifers for 1000-1300. Couldn't get more. Purebred breeders sell their heifers for ~1700-2000.

I could pay up to 2500 for a good heifer if she really was worth her value. Would pay much more for a bull if he was really a good one and could add more growth, shape and value for his calves. At the moment 6000 would be the roof for us, but it should change when we'll have some purebred females.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Jeanne, I fully understand your question....and for me to AI with 75-100 is plenty. To flush with I really don't have a limit if I feel its the right breeding. I pretty much always use proven bulls and will rarely be on the cutting edge of genetics as I just don't have the cow numbers needed to experiment.

Females I have for sale generally start at 2500.

Sure seems like a lot of money to pay for hamburger.

And a lot of mine end up on the feedlot. Figure each year roughly 50% males, and I castrate the majority of my bull calves. Only sold 4 as bulls out of about 22 male calves this past year. And, for less than $2000/each. My males are NOT my profit makers.
But, if I just sell one really good heifer for anywhere between $4500 and $8000 - that one animal pays for a lot of semen.

 

[Ebenezer]

I like to hold it under $1000 :lol:

 

[Lucky_P]

We usually keep it below $40... $25 is even better.
Bought some JF Milestone 999W in an online auction a couple of years back for $135/unit (we'd previously had it priced to us at $200 by one of the owners) ... and bought more last year in an online auction for $100/unit.

We're a commercial operation... but face it, I know it's a hobby... albeit one that at least makes a little money... so we're breeding what we want, even if it wouldn't necessarily pencil out when you look at returns just selling weaned calves.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Milestone gives you a great cow. He will add frame to your cattle, but puts a great looking animal on the ground. Sold one at 2 weeks of age for $4500 (fall born last year). Stout, good looking heifer.