Well found by house, How do we fill it in?

[aplusmnt]

We have recently found what seems to be an old Well on place, It is right next to our house. It is an evenly dug hole about 4 feet across. It has two pipes about 4 inch in diameter at the top of the hole. must be a drain pipe for some reason. One goes south towards house one goes north away. They are about 6 inches from top.

What happened was a contractor putting a new roof on house, put there ladder on what was a flower bed with Rocks around it by the house. Their ladder collapsed a thin piece of tin that had dirt and flowers on it. The metal bent and collapsed inside the whole so we can not tell how deep it is.

Any suggestions on best way to fill this, economically and safely?

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

I deleted post...decided entire post was not appropriate.

Bill...

 

[Hippie Rancher]

sure it's a well? maybe a rain water cistern or a septic tank/pit?

 

[Bez?]

If indeed it is a well, you have access to the water table. This means you do not fill the well with gravel and you do not fill the well with trash - unless you intend to fill the water table with whatever goes down the hole.

If it is a cistern it can simply be filled in with whatever you so desire.

You need to know the actual diametre of the well, the true depth of the well and if there is a casing in the well.

There is an actual decommissioning method to close off a well and ensure the water table does not get damaged. Any time you spill something like oil, paint or whatever into what may appear to be an abandoned well, that contaminant has access to other wells through the water table. Remember flooding can cause well contamination as can firefighting - should you be unfortunate enough to have a fire. It is amazing what can get down a well - despite our best intentions.

Take out any piping and any electrical - these simply help liquids find a path through the seal into the water table. Pull out the old tin cover. Keep small kids away.

The proper method - if memory serves me correctly - is to fill the lower 2/3'rds of the well with clay. Let stand for a couple of days to allow some settling.

Usually bentonite clay is used and care must be taken to prevent bridging of the material. This material is poured into the well in a dry state and then wet down. The clay expands and seals off the water table.

If you plan to use regular clay, it should be dug from the ground at a depth that is below any organic matter - this prevents rotting material to either open a channel from the surface through the clay plug, or potentially contaminate the ground water source.

Fill the top 1/3'rd of the well with fine sand and then start adding water to the well site. This water will eventually work its way down through the sand and enter the clay zone - the clay will expand and seal the well. You may need to top up the sand every couple of years until the settling stops.

A REPEAT WARNING:

If a permeable fill is used there is a serious risk of contaminants flowing from the surface - through the fill material into the water table. Do not use gravel and do not use sand for the bottom sealing plug - clay should be used.

If all else fails, visit your local well driller - he will have a good idea of what to do. If he says "put gravel in the hole" - find better help asap.

Some areas will have actual legislation as to how to back fill a well. Do not violate this, because there is potential for you to be liable should an incident take place that can be traced back to your well location.

Best to all,

Bez?

 

[Hippie Rancher]

if it is a well, you might want to check the cost of drilling a new one before you shut one you already have down!

 

[dun]

We have recently found what seems to be an old Well on place, It is right next to our house. It is an evenly dug hole about 4 feet across. It has two pipes about 4 inch in diameter at the top of the hole. must be a drain pipe for some reason. One goes south towards house one goes north away. They are about 6 inches from top.

What happened was a contractor putting a new roof on house, put there ladder on what was a flower bed with Rocks around it by the house. Their ladder collapsed a thin piece of tin that had dirt and flowers on it. The metal bent and collapsed inside the whole so we can not tell how deep it is.

Any suggestions on best way to fill this, economically and safely?

Check with your local NRCS office. I know this is a dirty word, but there may be a "cost share" to fill it in within the specs of your local natural resources department.

dun

 

[Hippie Rancher]

Dun,

Why is NRCS a dirty word? Are the NRCD's bad too? I am not being sarcastic, just curious what folks from other parts of the country think. Is it bad because its guvm'nt or some other reason?

Question not restricted to Dun, anybody else feel free to chime in - what is right/wrong with NRCS/NRCDs etc?

 

[VanC]

Dun,

Why is NRCS a dirty word? Are the NRCD's bad too? I am not being sarcastic, just curious what folks from other parts of the country think. Is it bad because its guvm'nt or some other reason?

Question not restricted to Dun, anybody else feel free to chime in - what is right/wrong with NRCS/NRCDs etc?

HR- There have been some recent, heated discussions on here about taking money from the gummint in the form of subsidies, cost share programs, etc. Some won't take them and look down upon those that do. Got pretty nasty and one or two threads ended up being locked by the administrator. Do a seach(up at the top) and type in the words "farm welfare" , check out some of the threads that come up, and you'll get the gist of it.

 

[dun]

Dun,

Why is NRCS a dirty word? Are the NRCD's bad too? I am not being sarcastic, just curious what folks from other parts of the country think. Is it bad because its guvm'nt or some other reason?

Question not restricted to Dun, anybody else feel free to chime in - what is right/wrong with NRCS/NRCDs etc?

It's the "cost share" that's the dirty word.

What's right and wrong with NRCS? I don;t se anything really wrong with them, but that's this office and I'm lucky enough to have them fooled into getting along with me very well. But I think a lot of it has to do with the local office and the employees there.
Ours is great. Lats year they had to lay off a higher paid employee and replace her with one at a lower salary, didn;t care for that all that much.

dun

 

[Hippie Rancher]

Cost share as in hand-out or as control mechanism?

oops wrote that ^ before I saw VanC's reply above Dun's - will do the search. Can imagine it got heated allright, just wondering about the types of arguments.

 

[dun]

Cost share as in hand-out or as control mechanism?

oops wrote that ^ before I saw VanC's reply above Dun's - will do the search. Can imagine it got heated allright, just wondering about the types of arguments.

Cost share is neither of the ablve. It's a method to a assist, the operative work being assist, with doing improvements that will either allow better utilization of the land or protect areas that need protecting. There may be others, but those are the 2 types that we've used in the past.

dun

 

[aplusmnt]

sure it's a well? maybe a rain water cistern or a septic tank/pit?

I am not sure what it is actually. Rain water Cistern might be what it is. I just kind of assumed it is a well.

How would a person go about finding out exactly what it is?

I have seen old time wells with the bucket and a rock little well house around them, My parents have a well at their place but it is only a small pipe.

How could a person know if it is a cistern or a well?

 

[3MR]

With the two run off pipes you described sounds like a cistern to me, especially being close to the house. Why dont you get a flash light and take a look. My grandma got her drinking water from a cistern, made good tea and lemonade. Cant say I would do it today though, she probably shouldnt have done it then.

 

[dj]

sure it's a well? maybe a rain water cistern or a septic tank/pit?

I am not sure what it is actually. Rain water Cistern might be what it is. I just kind of assumed it is a well.

How would a person go about finding out exactly what it is?

I have seen old time wells with the bucket and a rock little well house around them, My parents have a well at their place but it is only a small pipe.

How could a person know if it is a cistern or a well?

I would say it's neither cistern or well.
Well pipes don't come in from the side. If it does it's the first horizontal bore water well I've heard of.
The purpose of a cistern is to hold water till you want to take it out. So why would it have a drain pipe.
Now what hole in the ground does man make where something flows in and something flows out? Septic tanks

Aplusmnt I had a older piece of property that had one on it that sounds about the same. 3' rd and about 5-6' deep.
What kind of pipe is this? New PVC? Old black asphalt pipe?
Maybe even the old red clay hard fired pipe? Are the pipes exactly at the same height? Does one have a 90 on it that would direct flow down?
3mr might have it right about 2 inlets for a cistern but it seems kinda small to me the way you discribe it. the 3-4 cisterns I worked with were pretty big vessels/structures. The place I had with the septic that is like what you discribe also had a cistern but while the opening was 38-40 inchs it belled out to 12 ft across and 18 ft deep. :shock:
Fill it in with dirt and hush up before you place becomes a Hazmat super site. ;-)

 

[Hippie Rancher]

those 4 inch diameter pipes are kind of saying septic to me. There is an old cistern on this place - it was about 4 feet across, 12 or more feet deep (full of old rusty baling wire now - don't ask) concrete lined. No plumbing left, but this would have been pre 1900, I think.

Our "house" well is a 6 foot across square, and about 25 feet deep . It has a curb about 18 inches above ground level - as far as I can tell the old cistern didn't have curbing - must have had some kind of lid, though.

septic wouldn't be near that deep - mabe you could probe it with some kind of pole?

 

[alabama]

If it is your septic system, you should be able to smell it and you will not want to fill it as it may be in use. Just have it covered with a concrete cover. However since you did not mention a smell I would not suspect that it is in use as a septic system.
If it is in fact a well, where is you drinking water coming from now? Are you on city water or do you have another well that you are using?
If it is not your active well or septic system and you can't find a use for the thing just fill it in. In Alabama, the county will fill abandoned wells at no charge. They bring in one or more dump trucks loads of fill dirt and dump in the well. They leave it heaped up over the top to allow for settlement.

Good luck and please let us know hoe this turns out.

 

[aplusmnt]

Thanks for replies!

We do have city water now. The pipes on the two lips of the whole are old rusted metal. They appear to be the same height but I currently have it covered all up for safety. I will uncover it and look closer.

It did appear to have dirt sides, I thought Cisterns would be cemented or something to keep the water clean?

I have to figure a way to get the sheet metal out before I can see how deep it is. It folded and got stuck down in the whole so it is clogging it up at the moment.

It is not our current septic tank, I know were it is and drain pipe goes out other side of house.