Ive got a group of calves that calved out during Dec/Jan. I was talking to another cattle guy today that said instead of weaning his calves and having to feed them back up, he just takes em to the salebarn when its time. Is that something that is feasable? Also, what is a good age to wean or sale the calves?
Wean or sale.
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This is another question that draws many opinions. Yes it is feasible. We wean our calves and ship them the same day, keeping what we want for freezer beef and replacement heifers. It works for us because it is the least labor intensive option, and in our situation that is our second biggest concern. Also, we have tried to precondition our calves, and just could make the $$$$ come out in our favor. Didn't lose any money, but also didn't really gain any either. We wanted to see enough gained profit to justify the extra labor, and it just wasn't there. But, that is in one certain market area. Your part of the country might be different. So it very much depends on your area, your business plan, your general mode of operation, but there are certainly a lot of people who wean "on the trailer". We wean at around 7 months of age.
SRBeef
Well-known member
Maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't see where fenceline weaning for 8 weeks or so is all that much work or costly.
Weaning is easier on the calves and would produce a calf which is less likely to have health problems for his new owner and probably start gaining faster than a calf taken from Mom AND shipped to a strange location, fed different feed/no milk along with suddenly exposed to tight quarters with a group of other homesick calves and germs.
Buyers SHOULD logically pay more for weaned calves than calves just pulled from the cow and shipped. However buyers also will not pay any more than they have to, and prices are certainly NOT logical much of the time. However I believe we should wean the calves anyway.
Especially with fenceline weaning, how much can it cost to just sort the calves off of the cows to the other side of a hot electric fence wire? Ok there are two places to put hay but does that really cost a significant amount? Just being able to see their dam on the other side of the fence eases them into being on their own and they no longer hang around the fence after a couple days and focus more on feed and each other rather than the cow.
I would not ship calves without weaning them. Even if it doesn't "pay" immediately in higher prices for your calves, I believe it will pay eventually as it builds your reputation as a cattleman that cares for his cattle. jmho. Jim
Weaning is easier on the calves and would produce a calf which is less likely to have health problems for his new owner and probably start gaining faster than a calf taken from Mom AND shipped to a strange location, fed different feed/no milk along with suddenly exposed to tight quarters with a group of other homesick calves and germs.
Buyers SHOULD logically pay more for weaned calves than calves just pulled from the cow and shipped. However buyers also will not pay any more than they have to, and prices are certainly NOT logical much of the time. However I believe we should wean the calves anyway.
Especially with fenceline weaning, how much can it cost to just sort the calves off of the cows to the other side of a hot electric fence wire? Ok there are two places to put hay but does that really cost a significant amount? Just being able to see their dam on the other side of the fence eases them into being on their own and they no longer hang around the fence after a couple days and focus more on feed and each other rather than the cow.
I would not ship calves without weaning them. Even if it doesn't "pay" immediately in higher prices for your calves, I believe it will pay eventually as it builds your reputation as a cattleman that cares for his cattle. jmho. Jim
Let me try and explain. You still may disagree, but I will give a little more detail to my reasoning. We didn't earn any more (very little more anyway) money for the weaned calves than we did for the non-weaned calves. These were calves that I fed for 45 days. Hay, some creep, and shots. That is money out of my pocket that I never got back. Also, the labor involved. True, not a whole lot of labor, but time is a very precious commodity to us. This is a fairly good sized place, and I am on a fenceline usually from the last winter storm to the first winter storm of the next year. Plus, we both work full time jobs. She is gone a lot with her job, and I am a shift worker. So I have to count my minutes, just like I have to count my pennies, to make a profit. And the profit is small enough as it is.SRBeef":3nnekl9x said:
So basically, the way I see it, I did all the work, and supplied the investment, for someone else to make the extra profit. You are correct, the buyer got a better product, with better gain and less risk. But I was the one who paid for it and supplied the labor. For me it is simple economics. If I do the extra work, and supply the extra feed, and get PAID for it, I am going to do it. It didn't happen. And I am still not seeing enough price differential to try it again in this area. I am a cattleman that cares for his cattle, they are treated well and are healthy. I don't believe weaning in this way says anything to the contrary. Many here do it the same way. Like I said, you still may disagree, but maybe that sheds a little more light on my reasoning.
SRBeef
Well-known member
Grubbie,
I apologize for my choice of words. I did not mean to say or imply that if one did NOT wean their calves prior to shipment that they did not "care for their calves". Obviously many cattlemen that "care" for their calves wean them on the trailer.
I just don't think it is a good idea even if it is the current "norm".
I am in the same boat as you are with time. Even so, it seems to me that weaning and shots for calves prior to shipment are worth the small amount of additional work in the long run.
Maybe try selling them at a different barn or under one of the "pre-conditioned" sales? The Hereford Assn state groups have started having some sales where they group pre-conditioned calves from smaller cow/calf operators. These do seem to bring a bit of a premium to the current (if dismal) market price.
Jim
I apologize for my choice of words. I did not mean to say or imply that if one did NOT wean their calves prior to shipment that they did not "care for their calves". Obviously many cattlemen that "care" for their calves wean them on the trailer.
I just don't think it is a good idea even if it is the current "norm".
I am in the same boat as you are with time. Even so, it seems to me that weaning and shots for calves prior to shipment are worth the small amount of additional work in the long run.
Maybe try selling them at a different barn or under one of the "pre-conditioned" sales? The Hereford Assn state groups have started having some sales where they group pre-conditioned calves from smaller cow/calf operators. These do seem to bring a bit of a premium to the current (if dismal) market price.
Jim
FWIW , my take on the subject. If the sales in your area don;t have the preconditioned or vac sales doing the value added stuff is (usually) money spent that you won;t get back. If you're going to do the preconditioned/vac sale process you might as well go whole hog and do the age/source verified route too. We have 3 late calves that we're weaning today. I've been tempted to just load them on the trailer but decided that with a clear consience I can;t do it. We'll hold them for 45 days or so and run them through the wean/vac sale. It' s probably a break even deal at best but I just can;t bring myself to change the way we've alwasy done business just for convenience sake
No worries Jim, I didn't take offense, was just trying to make my point clear. As for Dun's response, yes convenience is one of the drivers for the way we do some things. But the main reason, again, is profit. I work too hard at this to lose money. The sale barns around here keep saying "preconditioning and shots making a big difference"....but quite honestly I haven't seen it in the last five years. A few pennies per cwt just doesn't cover the cost. If it was profitable, I would certainly be doing it. I enjoy this work, but I can't afford to lose money on it. If only calf prices would rise in concordance with feed, fuel, vaccines, etc.??? Until then, I have to pinch pennies where I can, while still maintaining a healthy, productive herd. Also keep in mind we are a colder, drier climate than you have. Grass doesn't grow back as fast here. We were actually looking at keeping all the calves and selling them as yearlings. But a couple of dry years has changed our minds. Might have to buy hay next year for the first time ever if we don't have a better year this year. :drink: Here's to a good calving season.
Cowdirt
Well-known member
grubbie, the buyers in my area have been slow to reward preconditioned calves to the point that it is worthwhile for the small producer. That's beginning to change abit. Hopefully before long we will have more incentive to follow this practice.
JRGidaho`
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I agree with SR (Jim) when it comes to fenceline and pasture weaning. There is very little work and very little cost to do this. The calves stay healthy, gain weight during the weaning period, and can usually be marketed for a premium price.
Many calves do lose weight for the first couple of weeks in conventional dry-lot weaning programs and then you have to feed them to regain that wt plus add any new weight, so it is very easy to lose money compared to just weaning them onto the trailer. When we were in MO we ran 21-day weaning on pasture program and then moved the calves on to either backgrounding for stockers or replacement heifers. We did not sell calves at weaning. We generally averaged a little over 1 1/2 lb/day for that 21-day period. There were a few years when they only gained 1/2 to 3/4 lb/day, but there were also years they gained over 2 lb. No purchased feed, no hay. Just stockpiled pasture or winter annual forage.
Another big difference is marketing calves rather than just selling them. In MO we sold most of our calves and yearlings through sale barns, but we always were there to represent them and they always did better than average and they weren't even blacks. Our red heifers usually sold even with the black hefers and our red steers would only be 2-4 cents off the same weight black steers compared to a lot of outfits that got 10-15 cents less for reds compared to blacks.
Many calves do lose weight for the first couple of weeks in conventional dry-lot weaning programs and then you have to feed them to regain that wt plus add any new weight, so it is very easy to lose money compared to just weaning them onto the trailer. When we were in MO we ran 21-day weaning on pasture program and then moved the calves on to either backgrounding for stockers or replacement heifers. We did not sell calves at weaning. We generally averaged a little over 1 1/2 lb/day for that 21-day period. There were a few years when they only gained 1/2 to 3/4 lb/day, but there were also years they gained over 2 lb. No purchased feed, no hay. Just stockpiled pasture or winter annual forage.
Another big difference is marketing calves rather than just selling them. In MO we sold most of our calves and yearlings through sale barns, but we always were there to represent them and they always did better than average and they weren't even blacks. Our red heifers usually sold even with the black hefers and our red steers would only be 2-4 cents off the same weight black steers compared to a lot of outfits that got 10-15 cents less for reds compared to blacks.
SRBeef
Well-known member
Thanks for the reply grubbie.
One problem I have seen with the "pre-conditioned" sales I have followed is that they are scheduled far in advance, usually for Nov or Dec, when the market may be flooded with calves and go on even if the weather etc is bad and prices everywhere are down. It leaves no flexibility on the part of the seller to say "no thank you" if the prices are not where the seller feels they should, could or will be maybe in Jan-Feb as we are seeing this year.
I believe being able to say "no thanks" and take them home or not go in the first place is an important part of marketing our calves rather than just taking whatever the buyers there that day feel willing to pay.
jmho.
Jim
One problem I have seen with the "pre-conditioned" sales I have followed is that they are scheduled far in advance, usually for Nov or Dec, when the market may be flooded with calves and go on even if the weather etc is bad and prices everywhere are down. It leaves no flexibility on the part of the seller to say "no thank you" if the prices are not where the seller feels they should, could or will be maybe in Jan-Feb as we are seeing this year.
I believe being able to say "no thanks" and take them home or not go in the first place is an important part of marketing our calves rather than just taking whatever the buyers there that day feel willing to pay.
jmho.
Jim
jedstivers
Well-known member
20 years ago I weaned on the way to the barn, now that I'm back in this thing and custom grazing stockers I'm going to keep the calves that are being born to my cows and sell them as yearlings next year. It all depends on your setup and situation.
I agree with cowdirt. Here in Middle Tennessee the sale barns are not yet paying premiums for pre-conditioned calves during their normal sale days. However, there are a few "special" feeder calf sales that will lump like kind calves together and sell truck loads. These sales are on certain days and the calves must be pre-conditioned (vac-45/vac-90). So the papers say these calves bring as much as $15-20 per cwt more than the normal sales.
