Water distribution problems

[MadRanchTX]

I've been in my place for 2 1/2 years now and am tired of fixing water leaks on the property. Water to the house is fine, I have a separate line off the well that feeds water around the property. By separate I mean the water tee's off at the well, 1 line goes to the house, the other out to the property. I am constantly fixing leaks, broken pipes, broken spigots, frozen spigots, etc. The previous owners ran water everywhere which is nice but it looks like it was installed using a hand held hoe. I have found broken pipes buried a 1/2 inch deep. So a cow steps in the wrong spot=broken pipe. Also a lot of it is 1 inch thin wall PVC. North Texas doesn't get sustained cold but not unusual to have several days below freezing and then I'm in trouble. No water to the stock tanks and then when it thaws I have new leaks. I've come to the conclusion that I'm going to have to rerun the water lines. What I'm looking for is advice/suggestions on what types of material to use for the lines, risers, and valves and spigots, how to install, and make sure I'm freeze proof (if such a thing exists). I have heaters in the stock tanks but the water line to the float will freeze. Any and all advice is appreciated including links to web sites that will explain in detail. This will be my spring/summer project.
Thank you
Mark

 

[Kingfisher]

Sounds like your getting close to having an irrigation license.......... I don't know what to tell you other than do not use
plastic shut off valves. I had one bust inside the building last year........I guess we spaced out insulating it. It was on a hot water
bib and made a mess after a 4 day hard freeze when it thawed out and burst.

 

[dun]

Use a miniumum of 1 1/2 schedule 40 PVC, use ball valves to shut of some lines as needed (or not needed), bury a miniumum of 12-18 deep. Use a 6-8 inch diameter PVC riser around the valce with the cover a couple o inches above gorund. All hydraunts should be freezeproof.
The only thing we use spigots on is the 1 inch above ground polypipe that is run along the fencelines and never used when we're expecting cold weather. Any place where there is a gate the poly is run through a piece of 2 inch schedule 40

 

[B&M Farms]

use schedule 40 pvc buried at least 12 inches deep. I dont think you have to worry about a minimum diameter in your area. Insulate pipe risers above ground. And brass spigots should be adequate. Under a freeze that last more than a day or two i would wrap spigots. To prevent this you could put them underground in something like a meter box.

 

[Angus Cowman]

use schedule 40 pvc buried at least 12 inches deep. I dont think you have to worry about a minimum diameter in your area. Insulate pipe risers above ground. And brass spigots should be adequate. Under a freeze that last more than a day or two i would wrap spigots. To prevent this you could put them underground in something like a meter box.

why not just use the freeze faucets then you don't have to worry as much about a riser getting broke off of it freezing
when freezing weather hits just unhook your float hose and run the water directly in the trough
if you do use freeze faucets be sure and plumb them off of the tee with a nipple then a street elbow and then another street elbow so that when you turn the faucet on or a cow bunps it it doesn't put pressure on the pvc tee also drive a t-post in beside the hyd and connect the riser to the t post for stability

I would go a minimiun of 18 inches deep then you should never have any problems in your area

 

[plumber_greg]

What you do, do it once, do it correctly, pay attention to all details, spare no expense on materials, go overboard on quality control of workmanship. That's only unless you hope to get to repair things in five years cuz' you enjoy working on stuff . JMHO gs

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I would run the under ground line to "frost-free hydrants". When it's going to be severly cold, you would have to disconnect the automatic waterer & hand fill the heated tanks.
But, if you really want self-sufficient water supply (costly), you can put automatic insulated waterers like a MiraFount with balls. Or, a combination of both systems, having the waterer in locations that are heavily used, and frost-free hydrants in low pressure areas.
We use both and we get LOTS LOTS colder than you ever dreamed :banana:

 

[dun]

I dont think you have to worry about a minimum diameter in your area.

Anytime water is running for very far you have to worry about the diameter. Water resistence in the pipe can decrease the flow significantly.

 

[MadRanchTX]

Thanks all, some good advice here. Had not really thought about friction loss through the PVC, I suspect it is substantial. Does anyone know where to get a friction loss table for PVC. Anyone tried 'PEX' as a header, seems like any easier installation and less joints (places of possible failure).

 

[dun]

Thanks all, some good advice here. Had not really thought about friction loss through the PVC, I suspect it is substantial. Does anyone know where to get a friction loss table for PVC. Anyone tried 'PEX' as a header, seems like any easier installation and less joints (places of possible failure).

There should be someone along pretty soon with the friction information. Don;t recall who it is but there are a couple of folks on here that know that kind of stuff inside and out

 

[bird dog]

I have not used pex except in my house but it should work well. In MOST cases if it freezes it will expand and not break. If you use the frost free faucets you will just have to turn them off on the cold days but the cows don't drink much on those days anyway. The advise mentioned above by angus cowman is spot on. I would put a access box beside each faucet with a valve so you can turn off the water or reduce the flow. This make everything easier to fix when it breaks and if you use the cheap type float valves like I do, they will work a lot better under low pressure that you can adjust with the flow regulating valve.

 

[Angus Cowman]

Thanks all, some good advice here. Had not really thought about friction loss through the PVC, I suspect it is substantial. Does anyone know where to get a friction loss table for PVC. Anyone tried 'PEX' as a header, seems like any easier installation and less joints (places of possible failure).

There should be someone along pretty soon with the friction information. Don;t recall who it is but there are a couple of folks on here that know that kind of stuff inside and out

Bear is the one that is real good at giving you size of pipe and friction loss
you might pm him
it would probably help if you knew starting pressure and how many feet you are going to be installing plus how many tee's or elbows you are installing in the main line

 

[Kingfisher]

One thing for sure you can't catch up with some good experience on laying pipe on your first big project . You might find someone
who can " assist" you on your project and for a fee and " help you do the job right the first time" so you can get back to doing whatever you like to do. Spring fishing is coming..........

 

[jedstivers]

Go to http://www.powerflexfence.com/ an look at their roll pipe an the floats that go in the bottom of the tank an consider using tire tanks. Even if you can't get the huge loader tires you can still use tractor or combine tires.

 

[agmantoo]

I ran 3300ft of schedule 40 1 1/2 inch PVC and branched off that to the waterers with Pex 3/4 inch. A chart similar to this was used to determine the pipe size
http://ewbcos.org/projects/bolivia/Sele ... 20Pipe.pdf

 

[novatech]

I ran 3300ft of schedule 40 1 1/2 inch PVC and branched off that to the waterers with Pex 3/4 inch. A chart similar to this was used to determine the pipe size
http://ewbcos.org/projects/bolivia/Sele ... 20Pipe.pdf

Good info.
I would like to see a chart for loss when running up hill and gain for running down hill.
Tips;
We use PEX for the risers and have had no problems with freeze. It expands when frozen and returns to it's original shape when thawed.
Pipe should be placed below the frost line for your area.
Pipe should be placed in an "S" pattern in the ditch. This allows for some give in the pipe for expansion and contraction of the ground and occasional hammer.
Glue joints are the number one problem with buried PVC pipe. Improper priming and/or to much glue are usually the problem. The primer is used to clean the pipe so it should be done thoroughly, until the lettering on the pipe is dissolved off. Secondly the primer is made of acetone which softens the pipe so pre priming and letting it dry out does not work and can cause failure. PVC primer is not a paint. The primer enables the pipe to weld together. The glue needs only to be applied with one revolution around the pipe and one inside the fitting. Insert together and twist. Continue to push the joints together for several seconds as they will try and push apart until they set.

 

[plumber_greg]

I could give lots of advice, but I don't want to because their's a lot of ways to do things, and any other than mine is wrong. Just one thing novatech, when you put the glue on plastic pipe, if you feel you must put some in the socket of the pipe you are gluing, put VERY little. My way is to clean both, and put the glue on pipe only. Fixed too many waterleaks in the last 30 years from someone putting glue in fittings and it runs down the pipe and weakens the wall of the pipe.
If you put it only on the pipe, push it in, twist 1/4 turn and hold, wipe excess glue on outside with rag, and it is all that is necessary. Also go to a supply house and get gasketed pipe for your main line. The smallest it comes in is 1 1/2, no glue joints, pipe can move a little if necessary. Got to know how to stake the elbows and tees though. gs

 

[novatech]

I could give lots of advice, but I don't want to because their's a lot of ways to do things, and any other than mine is wrong. Just one thing novatech, when you put the glue on plastic pipe, if you feel you must put some in the socket of the pipe you are gluing, put VERY little. My way is to clean both, and put the glue on pipe only. Fixed too many waterleaks in the last 30 years from someone putting glue in fittings and it runs down the pipe and weakens the wall of the pipe.
If you put it only on the pipe, push it in, twist 1/4 turn and hold, wipe excess glue on outside with rag, and it is all that is necessary. Also go to a supply house and get gasketed pipe for your main line. The smallest it comes in is 1 1/2, no glue joints, pipe can move a little if necessary. Got to know how to stake the elbows and tees though. gs

Your probably right about the gluing just the male side. I was taught to put on both over 20 years ago.I have also been told by others to just put on male. By putting glue on both we have never had problems. Never had a blow out by applying on both. The one place I only put glue on the male side is when connecting to a PVC vaIve. If you put glue in the female side you may ruin the valve by gluing it either open or shut. I agree with the staking.

 

[Angus Cowman]

I could give lots of advice, but I don't want to because their's a lot of ways to do things, and any other than mine is wrong. Just one thing novatech, when you put the glue on plastic pipe, if you feel you must put some in the socket of the pipe you are gluing, put VERY little. My way is to clean both, and put the glue on pipe only. Fixed too many waterleaks in the last 30 years from someone putting glue in fittings and it runs down the pipe and weakens the wall of the pipe.
If you put it only on the pipe, push it in, twist 1/4 turn and hold, wipe excess glue on outside with rag, and it is all that is necessary. Also go to a supply house and get gasketed pipe for your main line. The smallest it comes in is 1 1/2, no glue joints, pipe can move a little if necessary. Got to know how to stake the elbows and tees though. gs

HE77 what do you know you have just been doing it for a living the past 30 some yrs

 

[dun]

lot of problems would be prevented if you put water to it and leave it for a couple of days before covering it. I've seen too many times that it's buried right after putting it in and ending up with a small soggy spot 6 months later.