Hi all im from Southeast kansas. i am looking to get into buying some cattle when i get home. i have a couple of questions. first off whats the best kinda breed to get started with,( seems like black cows sell best around here), and also is it more money per head to get into the purebreed cattle. i am looking into buying around 6-7 cow.calf pairs when i first get back. i will have around 10,000$ to start off with cash, becaue i do not want to get into debt starting off. im hoping to build my herd up with just the begining cow/calf pairs and then build on it with the money i make putting it back into the herd buying more and more cows per year. also any begining advice is greatly appreciated, ive worked aorund other peoples cows alot, but never had my own, i am curently only 23 so im gonna give it a try when i get back to the states. thank you all.
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- Thread starter SEKDUTTON
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alacattleman
Well-known member
lot a hereford folks in Kansas,, if i were in that country i be using them and angus both... hard too go wrong with that combo
IluvABbeef
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IMO, I think you'll need a bit more than $10 grand to start.
You need to have land, fences, water sources and feed up in order before you buy your cows. This is priority.
Angus seems to be the popular breed around Kansas, as far as I know. Black baldies are also popular, as ala mentioned.
It does cost a bit more money to purchase purebred stock than buying commercial stock from the salebarn. Some producers can sell one cow for as much money as what you have in your pocket now.
You are on the right track by planning on starting with a handful of 3-in-1's first. Make sure they're GOOD cows you're purchasing though.
You need to have land, fences, water sources and feed up in order before you buy your cows. This is priority.
Angus seems to be the popular breed around Kansas, as far as I know. Black baldies are also popular, as ala mentioned.
It does cost a bit more money to purchase purebred stock than buying commercial stock from the salebarn. Some producers can sell one cow for as much money as what you have in your pocket now.
You are on the right track by planning on starting with a handful of 3-in-1's first. Make sure they're GOOD cows you're purchasing though.
djinwa
Well-known member
I'm curious, from where are you returning? College/war/prison?
thanks for the advice so far, im in afghaniland now currently. got couple months left on this tour. the land, water, fences you guys asked about are already taken care of. i work for a buddy of mines dad that has over 200 acres with only about 40 head on it, all good pature land with cross fencing, corrals, squeeze chute and ponds. he said starting out if i wanted to i could stick some cows in with his. i work for him anyways so that wont be bad and i told him when it comes to winter hay time that we would jsut figure out what percentage of the herd my couple cows are and i would pay for that percentage of the hay. we get along great so i see no problems with this setup, least not for just year or two. my question is if you guys that are in commercial beef would start over would you go the registerd way or would you just stick with commerical beef. my goal is that when im in my 40-50s to have enough cattle to retire and jsut live off of the payback, but even if i cant do that i still want them. been wanting cattle since ive been in highschool jsut too many factors agianst ya if you dont ahve your own ground. also how hard is it to get into the registerd cattle buisness, is it a cornerd market that just soem people control or is there still alot of money left to be had? thanks agian all for the fast replies, im sure il have tons of other questions before the end of year, haha just wanna get my research done beofre i go off and spend any money.
upfrombottom
Well-known member
Sorry I can't help with your planning much, but THANK YOU FOR THE SERVICE.
MO_cows
Well-known member
Yes, thank you for your service!
Sounds like a great opportunity with land and handling facilities at your disposal for free. I would suggest you start out with commercial cattle to gain experience and hone your skills at herdsmanship. The 3 in 1's do seem to be the best value to buy and should give you a head start over buying heifers. Commercial angus cows are everywhere, and that would give you a lot of flexibility on what bull to use. Hereford for the tried and true baldies that will probably never go out of style. Gelbvieh for balancers if they sell well in your area, and many other breeds make a good cross too.
Sounds like a great opportunity with land and handling facilities at your disposal for free. I would suggest you start out with commercial cattle to gain experience and hone your skills at herdsmanship. The 3 in 1's do seem to be the best value to buy and should give you a head start over buying heifers. Commercial angus cows are everywhere, and that would give you a lot of flexibility on what bull to use. Hereford for the tried and true baldies that will probably never go out of style. Gelbvieh for balancers if they sell well in your area, and many other breeds make a good cross too.
SRBeef
Well-known member
SEKDUTTON":18pp8nzg said:
I also want to thank you for your service.
As a fellow beginner I asked the same question about registered vs commercial. I think the first questions to answer in about any prospective new business venture is to decide just what is it you are going to sell and to whom and at what likely price.
Selling registered stock is a very specialized business and generally not for beginners like you and me.
So that means you will likely be selling commercial stock, either calves, stockers or fats. Or freezer beef if you want to start that way.
In any case you don't need registered output.
However a bull is a very important 50% of your herd, especially if you want to retain heifers to build your herd. So I think a good way to start is with commercial cows but a very good registered bull. The effects of a good bull, or unfortunately a bad bull, will affect your herd for years.
Just a suggestion but I would suggest you start with commercial cows and one good registered bull. As mentioned above, commercial Angus cows are "everywhere" and can be purchased fairly reasonably.
I would put a very good registered Hereford bull on those Angus commercial cows and produce BWF baldies which are very saleable product to a number of different types of customers. You get the benefits of heterosis (sp?) and can retain some BWF heifers or just buy additional commercial Angus cows if you want to expand.
Good luck to you. You should have a good plan by the time you return. Jim
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
Again thanks for your service.
If I was starting out today I would buy Hereford type cattle number one they are cheaper secondly I have options to follow changing market conditons.
Run a homo black bull and you have black baldies, switch to a Char bull high yellow baldies, and a red bull red baldies.
All you have to do is change the bull to change the color of the calf crop. This is about weight across the scales at the salebarn a 2 way crossbred calf will weigh 10% more at weaning than a purebred, 3 way cross 20% more.
Purebred is a money game, my advice starting out get a good set of commercial momma cows and the best terminal bull you can find.
Thats my 2 cents.
If I was starting out today I would buy Hereford type cattle number one they are cheaper secondly I have options to follow changing market conditons.
Run a homo black bull and you have black baldies, switch to a Char bull high yellow baldies, and a red bull red baldies.
All you have to do is change the bull to change the color of the calf crop. This is about weight across the scales at the salebarn a 2 way crossbred calf will weigh 10% more at weaning than a purebred, 3 way cross 20% more.
Purebred is a money game, my advice starting out get a good set of commercial momma cows and the best terminal bull you can find.
Thats my 2 cents.
thank you all for your well wishing and your advice. i dont think i will buy a bull right off the bat becuase i dont want to cause any problems with my buddys herd bull he already has. its not the best bull though and has given him some trouble with calving, i was actually thinking of having them AI'd once they come back into heat after having their calves. i have a freind that works for ABS that i could buy the semen through and also does the AI. or would this be a waste of money right off the bat. the reason i was thinking of having them AI'd was so i could keep all the heifers back and then maybe keep one bull that way i could then use that bull as a herd bull. but indoing this i would have to sell off the momma cow that had that bull. but my question is could i breed this bull back to the other calves, from the same AI bull just diffrent moms? also ive heard some old timers say that its good to put a young bull in with an older bul becuase it kinda forces the older bull to work harder breeding the cows so that the younger bull cant, kinda like a little rivalrly inside the herd, is this true or just some coffe shop bs? also i know about teh patches you can stick on the cows hind end that turn red after shes been rode, but is there any other products out there that will let ya know if the cow has been rode by the bull? i know i got alota questions and im sure ill have more the more answers i get, haha. but thank you for your time.
andybob
Well-known member
Welcome Sekdutton, if you have access to AI and can either heat spot every day, or synchronise the herd, it means you don't have the expense and hassle of maintaining a bull, you can access superior bulls that you could never afford to buy, you can match your cows and heifers to suitable bulls and not be restricted to one single herd sire, and as Caustic pointed out, you can change bull breed to suit the market (assuming you take his advise and go for red cattle as your foundation.)
LauraleesFarm
Well-known member
I want to thank you for fighting for my freedom and for fighting against terrorism. :tiphat:
You have already gotten some great advice here.....I LOVE my herefords and I especially LOVE my Braford and Tigerstripes. I have a small herd, just an amateur. I like a little hereford and Brahman blood in everything! you should be able to buy a nice little starter herd. I'd buy heifer pairs and 3 in 1's if I were you. Before too long, your friend will need a new/different bull if he is keeping any of the daughters. Maybe at that point the two of you could partnership on a good bull.
If not, then AI is definitely the way to go. One word of advice on AI that I picked up off this board.....if the cows/heifers are high strung and easily upset by being handled you will have a hard time getting them to settle with AI. In order to AI you will need calm gentle cows/heifers that don't get terribly upset about being put in the squeeze and getting a shot.
There are MANY AI semen vendors online that you can go ahead and be shopping for your baby-daddys. That should keep you busy for a while! May all your cow dreams come true.....
You have already gotten some great advice here.....I LOVE my herefords and I especially LOVE my Braford and Tigerstripes. I have a small herd, just an amateur. I like a little hereford and Brahman blood in everything! you should be able to buy a nice little starter herd. I'd buy heifer pairs and 3 in 1's if I were you. Before too long, your friend will need a new/different bull if he is keeping any of the daughters. Maybe at that point the two of you could partnership on a good bull.
If not, then AI is definitely the way to go. One word of advice on AI that I picked up off this board.....if the cows/heifers are high strung and easily upset by being handled you will have a hard time getting them to settle with AI. In order to AI you will need calm gentle cows/heifers that don't get terribly upset about being put in the squeeze and getting a shot.
There are MANY AI semen vendors online that you can go ahead and be shopping for your baby-daddys. That should keep you busy for a while! May all your cow dreams come true.....
this may sounds like a stupid question but how can you tell a cattles backround when ya go to buy one if ya dotn just straight out ask them. also if i wanted to triple cross them what would be a good way to start. buy hereford 3n1 with a herford calf on side and bred back to an angus bull then hope for the best and hope calf comes out a heifer then keep heifer back and breed to ai bull? also would it not be very cost effective to just breed maybe 2 or 3 cows with AI then let rest get bred by herd bull that way i have 3 calves to chose from and kinda keep my options open. i know alot of people round my area run angus cattle or at least somepart angus, and i know black or black baldie face cattle sell best for some reason. thanks
LauraleesFarm
Well-known member
Unless you are buying registered pedigreed animal (and even then it is not a guarantee), you can't really know the animal's background for sure such as who the sire was and whether or not it is related to other animals you own.
If buying from the livestock auction you will not get much if any information on the cattle besides age and pregnancy status.
But if you are buying registered animals you do get some reassurance that the animal you are buying comes from certain parentage and the breeder usually stands behind their quality, and can guarantee fertility and such.
My advice would be to ASK A VET or stockman YOU TRUST THAT KNOWS CATTLE who he/she recommends that sell/breed good cattle, and go visit farms. You will pay a little bit more buying from an individual than from a weekly livestock auction. But you will get more assurance about what you are buying. People gotta figure that if they sell you a load of crap, you do know where they live! You can't say that about the auction, it is buyer beware.
Unregistered angus-looking black cows can certainly be bred to make black baldy-type calves, but again, you might be getting cows with no angus blood whatsoever.....they could be black jerseys mixed with who knows what. It all depends on how much you want to spend, and what type of program you want.
If buying from the livestock auction you will not get much if any information on the cattle besides age and pregnancy status.
But if you are buying registered animals you do get some reassurance that the animal you are buying comes from certain parentage and the breeder usually stands behind their quality, and can guarantee fertility and such.
My advice would be to ASK A VET or stockman YOU TRUST THAT KNOWS CATTLE who he/she recommends that sell/breed good cattle, and go visit farms. You will pay a little bit more buying from an individual than from a weekly livestock auction. But you will get more assurance about what you are buying. People gotta figure that if they sell you a load of crap, you do know where they live! You can't say that about the auction, it is buyer beware.
Unregistered angus-looking black cows can certainly be bred to make black baldy-type calves, but again, you might be getting cows with no angus blood whatsoever.....they could be black jerseys mixed with who knows what. It all depends on how much you want to spend, and what type of program you want.
djinwa
Well-known member
I would offer the same advice I gave my son a few weeks ago when he left for Afghanistan (Kandahar). Keep your head down and get yourself back home.
It's nice you can have the internet and do some dreaming and planning.
I am no expert, but here's some ideas worthy of consideration.
If you rush out to get any old cows, you may spend years trying to straighten out their deficiencies, or soon discover why someone dumped them at the sale. Spend alittle more up front to save money later.
As was stated, disposition is critical. Not only does it affect pounds of calves produced, but wild ones can downright make it all unfun. And can get you hurt. And their increased stress reduces their immunity leading to more sickness.
Good udders affect the calf's ability to nurse and the longevity of the cow. Udders should be tightly attached to the body, level bottoms and smaller, even size teats. If the calf can't get their mouth around them, you'll get to milk them.
You'll want to decide what size cows you want. There's been plenty of debate around here. One viewpoint favoring smaller frames is at pharocattle.com. Smaller, less growthy ones tend to finish better on grass, needing less grain. Depends on your market.
As was suggested above, I would buy from a farm where you can see their animals. If you're buying a calf, check out the dam's udder, and udders of other females out of the same bull. Note their disposition, giving consideration to how much they've been handled.
Look for good feet that don't need trimmed. There's more factors to consider - just keep poking around the internet and this site and reading and you'll have a better idea of what to look for. And you can always post photos here and get opinions.
It's nice you can have the internet and do some dreaming and planning.
I am no expert, but here's some ideas worthy of consideration.
If you rush out to get any old cows, you may spend years trying to straighten out their deficiencies, or soon discover why someone dumped them at the sale. Spend alittle more up front to save money later.
As was stated, disposition is critical. Not only does it affect pounds of calves produced, but wild ones can downright make it all unfun. And can get you hurt. And their increased stress reduces their immunity leading to more sickness.
Good udders affect the calf's ability to nurse and the longevity of the cow. Udders should be tightly attached to the body, level bottoms and smaller, even size teats. If the calf can't get their mouth around them, you'll get to milk them.
You'll want to decide what size cows you want. There's been plenty of debate around here. One viewpoint favoring smaller frames is at pharocattle.com. Smaller, less growthy ones tend to finish better on grass, needing less grain. Depends on your market.
As was suggested above, I would buy from a farm where you can see their animals. If you're buying a calf, check out the dam's udder, and udders of other females out of the same bull. Note their disposition, giving consideration to how much they've been handled.
Look for good feet that don't need trimmed. There's more factors to consider - just keep poking around the internet and this site and reading and you'll have a better idea of what to look for. And you can always post photos here and get opinions.
backhoeboogie
Well-known member
Thanks for all you do.
No one has mentioned pasture yet, except you. Forage is extremely important. Take care of the pasture and it will take care of you.
No one has mentioned pasture yet, except you. Forage is extremely important. Take care of the pasture and it will take care of you.
Workinonit Farm
Well-known member
backhoeboogie":35et2rla said:
:nod: :nod: Not only will you be a cow farmer, but a grass farmer as well. No grass, no food.
All good suggestions from everyone.
I too would like to thank you for your service, be safe and come home.
Katherine
SEKDUTTON":2e7le33w said:
After reading this post, my best advice is to run cattle that are going to fit in with your frineds program. If not then you will be handling them separately and it will cause problems. The other thing to consider is asking him if he will sell you a few young pairs or maybe go with you to pick out and purchase what will fit his program. You might also gain some insight as to why he runs the kind of cattle he does and how he breeds them.
man am i glad i found this site you guys are really fast to respond with alot of great advice thank you all. i have thought about not wanting to get in his "way" by trying to do things my way. he has 80 acres about 20 min away from the house where they have horses now its all pasture with horses on it now that hes gettins rid of, so weve been talking about buying some steers to put out there and finish them off during the summer then selling them in the fall, (im still planning on buyin the 3 N 1s), just thought that this would be a good way to make a lil money over the summer. i just got a couple questions, dotn have to worry about the land or the water just had a couple questions. i was thinkin some steers in the 5-6 wt and sell them after 3 months. is this reasonable or will i lose my ass, any other helpful tips will be appreciated. and i will not be buyin them all myself ive already talked to my freind and were gonna go in together maybe buy 16 total maybe more, whats your thoughts. also how often would ya grain them, everyday, twice a day or would once a week work. also would we be alright jsut lettin eat the pasture,( lots of grass available)
