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wanted: advice on buying cattle prod

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Anonymous

Guest
needing advice on the best cattle prod on the market. Does anyone have suggestions and why do you like a certain kind? thanks so much!

[email protected]
 
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A

Anonymous

Guest
>I prefer a long shank on one, if I need the prod I want some distance. Do you really need one tho-while back in the sale barn I seriously considered taking one off an amish kid moving veal calves and shoving it where the sun don't shine.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Don't know your circumstance Joni, so don't be offended if I am out of line, but the only time I have needed a commercial prod was when my temper got the best of me. A little time conditioning your cattle will go a long ways when it comes to working them. When necessary I use a 7' walking pole. I can stop a 500 lb feeder by sticking it in a panel and putting my hip into it. Well, sometimes! It's a good extendtion of the arm and works good for me. Also works good for jumping the creek. Remember a lesson in cruelty is sometimes learned.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
We only use it when we have to because it does make an animal jumpy. It would be cruelty if you were prodding them while they’re in a head gate. But if you’re trying to load a cow or bull that has somewhere to go (down the chute) and just wants to sull, it’s not cruel. It’s motivation. Sometimes there is not any way to get an animal moving except to apply some persuasion. We’ve used quirts in the past and they can be handy also, but a prod is much easier when working through the side of a chute.

As far at make and model go, I would not spend a bunch of money, but get something that's made fairly well. They tend to get broken. Can't remember any brands off hand.

Craig-TX
 
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Anonymous

Guest
> needing advice on the best cattle
> prod on the market. Does anyone
> have suggestions and why do you
> like a certain kind? thanks so
> much!

Hot Shot, they're nearly indestructable and the shaft is replaceable if broken.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I absolutely agree with mr3. Especially about the temper thing. I've seen folks who are normally very nice to be around lose their temper and grab a hotshot, and then abuse the cows. If the hotshot isn't there to grab, you will look for a better way to move your cows. I'm not animal rights idiot - there are just usually better ways to move cows.

Explore Dr. Temple Grandin's website for ideas - <A HREF="http://www.grandin.com" TARGET="_blank">www.grandin.com</A>

Keep in mind using a hotshot will give you cows that kick. Don't blame them later for your black and blue shins - or worse. I hate to AI a cow that has had a hotshot used on it at any time in its life.

We cull for disposition and have cows and bulls that are easy to work. For the occasional stubborn cow or bull, I'd much rather use my cow dog to encourage the animal than a hot shot.

Our bulls load themselves into the trailer, even in a pasture. We sold a bull last year and weren't home when friends came to pick him up. They were totally surprised & pleased when they opened the trailer door and the bull jumped in. They were even more pleased to learn that wasn't a fluke, but the bull's normal behavior.

> Don't know your circumstance Joni,
> so don't be offended if I am out
> of line, but the only time I have
> needed a commercial prod was when
> my temper got the best of me. A
> little time conditioning your
> cattle will go a long ways when it
> comes to working them. When
> necessary I use a 7' walking pole.
> I can stop a 500 lb feeder by
> sticking it in a panel and putting
> my hip into it. Well, sometimes!
> It's a good extendtion of the arm
> and works good for me. Also works
> good for jumping the creek.
> Remember a lesson in cruelty is
> sometimes learned.
 
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A

Anonymous

Guest
Anybody who stands behind a bull or cow while they put a hotshot on them deserves “black and blue shins - or worse” as an award for stupidity. Who would get in the chute with a disagreeable animal?

Culling for disposition a good practice when it comes to getting rid of wild stock but expecting bulls so gentle they will load themselves? That expectation is crazy for a working ranch.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
> Anybody who stands behind a bull
> or cow while they put a hotshot on
> them deserves “black and blue
> shins - or worse” as an award for
> stupidity. Who would get in the
> chute with a disagreeable animal?

> Culling for disposition a good
> practice when it comes to getting
> rid of wild stock but expecting
> bulls so gentle they will load
> themselves? That expectation is
> crazy for a working ranch.

Most people are prepared for a coiled spriing to go off when using a hot shot. Are you prepared for that spring to go off every time you walk behind that animal. You don't have to be behind them ether. They can get you off to the side. You are right about culling for disposition, but a hot shot won't improve dispoition. Don't get me wrong, there are instances were a hot shot has its use. It is the convenient misuse that me and some of the other posts disapprove.

My dad and I used to share a Hereford bull and all we had to do was drive the trailer out in the field and honk the horn.

Good luck with all those bulls!
>Rod
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Truth said! Cattle kick nicely toward back and to the side ("cow kick"). "Punishment" (e.g., cattle prod, etc.) can be remembered by an animal. Positive reinforcement always works better in the long run. According to tried, true, and long-standing learning theory: "an individual tends to repeat those behaviors that they perceive as reinforcing".
 
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A

Anonymous

Guest
> Truth said! Cattle kick nicely
> toward back and to the side
> ("cow kick").
> "Punishment" (e.g.,
> cattle prod, etc.) can be
> remembered by an animal. Positive
> reinforcement always works better
> in the long run. According to
> tried, true, and long-standing
> learning theory: "an
> individual tends to repeat those
> behaviors that they perceive as
> reinforcing".

They make a plastic paddle with little rattles in it. This works very well for sorting and anything else you need the cows to do.

As far as bulls that are easy to deal with - I have a 4 year old black angus that will occasionally (not since day before yesterday) get in the 1400 acre pasture that is next to my 67 acres. He will generally stay close to the fence and all I do is cut an opening in the fence and call him and tell him to get home. Believe it or not he comes! I've had him since he was 7 months old and have petted him through the years. He occasionally likes to come to me and get petted, but I do have a good respect for him and always have some way of escape should he get rowdy, thankfully he never has. So I can understand a bull being trained to get in a trailer.

[email protected]
 
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Anonymous

Guest
My cows never mind me checking their newborn calves, which are all dropped pre-wormed, vaccinated, and branded. The coyotes stay away and only eat each other. The vet comes by, but only for coffee, for which he pays $100.00 a call. Nobody eats much and everybody’s fat. My cattle jump in the trailer, the same way a dog loads up in the pickup bed. I never have need for a hotshot. Come and see me some time. My place is just under Big Rock Candy Mountain.

Seriously folks. If you never need a hotshot/whip/stick, and your bulls load themselves, then you have more in common with the Barnum & Bailey circus than you do with the cattle business. That’s OK, it’s just that you ain’t in the cattle business. Nothing wrong with that.

But in the world of ranching there is nothing wrong with using a hot shot on a stubborn animal. I’ve been popped with a hotshot when one of my “friends” decided to “accidentally” let me have it. I’ve done it to others. It hurt like [email protected]#$%^&*, and I got him back, but it didn’t change my life or anything. In fact, it’s pretty funny, as long as it’s not you.

Don’t act like somebody who is trying to scratch out a profit is being cruel or impatient when they need to work cattle and don’t have time to engrave invitations for each cantankerous cow. For crying out loud, they get over it.

<A HREF="http://ingeb.org/songs/onasumme.html" TARGET="_blank">http://ingeb.org/songs/onasumme.html</A>
 
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A

Anonymous

Guest
> My cows never mind me checking
> their newborn calves, which are
> all dropped pre-wormed,
> vaccinated, and branded. The
> coyotes stay away and only eat
> each other. The vet comes by, but
> only for coffee, for which he pays
> $100.00 a call. Nobody eats much
> and everybody’s fat. My cattle
> jump in the trailer, the same way
> a dog loads up in the pickup bed.
> I never have need for a hotshot.
> Come and see me some time. My
> place is just under Big Rock Candy
> Mountain.

> Seriously folks. If you never need
> a hotshot/whip/stick, and your
> bulls load themselves, then you
> have more in common with the
> Barnum & Bailey circus than
> you do with the cattle business.
> That’s OK, it’s just that you
> ain’t in the cattle business.
> Nothing wrong with that.

> But in the world of ranching there
> is nothing wrong with using a hot
> shot on a stubborn animal. I’ve
> been popped with a hotshot when
> one of my “friends” decided to
> “accidentally” let me have it.
> I’ve done it to others. It hurt
> like [email protected]#$%^&*, and I got him back,
> but it didn’t change my life or
> anything. In fact, it’s pretty
> funny, as long as it’s not you.

> Don’t act like somebody who is
> trying to scratch out a profit is
> being cruel or impatient when they
> need to work cattle and don’t have
> time to engrave invitations for
> each cantankerous cow. For crying
> out loud, they get over it.

>
> <A HREF="http://ingeb.org/songs/onasumme.html" TARGET="_blank">http://ingeb.org/songs/onasumme.html</A>

I have used and do occasionally use a hot shot, but don't need to too often. Guess I have more patience than most. I also hope someday to make a profit, and hopefully wil not become a smart-alec in the process.

[email protected]
 
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A

Anonymous

Guest
> I have used and do occasionally
> use a hot shot, but don't need to
> too often. Guess I have more
> patience than most. I also hope
> someday to make a profit, and
> hopefully wil not become a
> smart-alec in the process.

If you do ever become a smart alec...try to be as funny as that one!
 
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A

Anonymous

Guest
> If you do ever become a smart
> alec...try to be as funny as that
> one!

Guys chasing each other around with a Hot shot! That is funny! What ever happened to guys chasing girls!
 
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A

Anonymous

Guest
To those who had comments regarding gentle bulls being "pets" or "training bulls to jump into trailers," etc:

I certainly don't expect every ranch to have gentle bulls that load themselves, nor do I expect every single bull we raise to load himself.

However, we DO cull for disposition and it has paid off over the years. We DO have a working ranch and raise bulls for sale.

We DO NOT "train circus type animals" or anything of the kind. You who bash the concept of bulls (and cows) that are easy to work ought to open up your minds a bit. My way is not the only way, nor is yours.

In our situation, we often load livestock and move them between pastures during the grazing season. Cattle tend to learn some of their habits from watching older animals.

When our bulls load themselves, it is most often when feed is running low in a pasture. Putting a flake or two of hay in the trailer a few times when they're hungry and they seldom are adverse to hopping in and checking out the trailer. The mature bulls seem to know a trailer ride often results in being unloaded into a pasture full of heifers ready to breed. Sometimes they load out of sheer curiousity, and slamming the trailer door before they run back out is the wise thing to do.

Yes, I've chased both bulls and cows in an effort to load them. But, they've never chased me. Well, one crossbred cow did. I fetched the dog, worked her up and down the fence until she learned some respect for humans and dogs, and put her in the freezer a few weeks later.

We ear tag and tattoo calves at birth, either in the corral or in the pasture, and have yet to have one of our cows challenge us.

We never, ever, "pet" our bulls. That is a dangerous practice, in my opinion. I always carry a good sorting stick when entering a bull corral and the dog is outside the pen just in case there's trouble. In a pasture situation, we work on horseback, or on foot with the cowdog. When I fix fence in the bull pasture, the dog is at my side.

Culling for disposition is the first step toward a herd that is easier to handle than most. Using calm methods of handling is another step, as is taking a few minutes to learn to work with the natural instincts of the cow.

The worst cow I ever attempted to AI in my life was a Simmental who was usually moved with a hotshot, and who had had so many large calves in her short breeding history that her insides were full of scar tissue. I like Simmentals. This one was wild in the chute because of the way she had been handled all her life. Her owner has zip when it comes to patience, but is always amazed when he sees me handling our cattle. He "wishes he had time" to move his cattle like I do. Funny. It takes him twice as long to work his herd, ten times the effort, and tons of frustration and cussing.

We work our cows from horseback when gathering in the pasture, we team pen on the weekends, and we use the dog when necessary, but not on a regular basis. Our cows aren't pets by any means, and I have seen our momma cows put more than one cowdog back up on the porch (a friend's dog, not mine). They are easy with humans, but hell on dogs. They protect their babies from predators, but do not see humans as such.

> Anybody who stands behind a bull
> or cow while they put a hotshot on
> them deserves “black and blue
> shins - or worse” as an award for
> stupidity. Who would get in the
> chute with a disagreeable animal?

> Culling for disposition a good
> practice when it comes to getting
> rid of wild stock but expecting
> bulls so gentle they will load
> themselves? That expectation is
> crazy for a working ranch.
 
OP
A

Anonymous

Guest
for what it's worth, i have bulls over 1200kg running around in my place, and i never enter a stable or pasture without my little piece of wood (something like a tow feet club). but i also know that cattle hate electricity. a good way to teach your cattle to hate you and not respect you is by using electricity on them.

when i get feeder bulls from other farms around i can tell by the way they act from which farmer they come. which farmer is nervous, which one likes to shout and kick and use his little prod. they don't respect me, they fear me, and i don't want that. i want peace and quiet in my stables, not stressed out rabbits. consequently bulls coming from me or famers who work just like me settle in the first day and never loose respect nor get scared of me.

the days of the cowboys are over. learn to accept that. and if you come in a nasty situation, get out of it, but don't try to hurt the animal too much, because then he will be set to hurt you for the rest of his life.

all i say is don't be too nice, but be gentle and have patience, and everything will go twice as fast. 1200kg's of muscle and bone only move if they want to move, and my job is to make them want to move, not force them to, that would get me killed within the next few years.

"an iron hand in a silk glove"

[email protected]
 
OP
A

Anonymous

Guest
> To those who had comments
> regarding gentle bulls being
> "pets" or "training
> bulls to jump into trailers,"
> etc:

> I certainly don't expect every
> ranch to have gentle bulls that
> load themselves, nor do I expect
> every single bull we raise to load
> himself.

> However, we DO cull for
> disposition and it has paid off
> over the years. We DO have a
> working ranch and raise bulls for
> sale.

> We DO NOT "train circus type
> animals" or anything of the
> kind. You who bash the concept of
> bulls (and cows) that are easy to
> work ought to open up your minds a
> bit. My way is not the only way,
> nor is yours.

> In our situation, we often load
> livestock and move them between
> pastures during the grazing
> season. Cattle tend to learn some
> of their habits from watching
> older animals.

> When our bulls load themselves, it
> is most often when feed is running
> low in a pasture. Putting a flake
> or two of hay in the trailer a few
> times when they're hungry and they
> seldom are adverse to hopping in
> and checking out the trailer. The
> mature bulls seem to know a
> trailer ride often results in
> being unloaded into a pasture full
> of heifers ready to breed.
> Sometimes they load out of sheer
> curiousity, and slamming the
> trailer door before they run back
> out is the wise thing to do.

> Yes, I've chased both bulls and
> cows in an effort to load them.
> But, they've never chased me.
> Well, one crossbred cow did. I
> fetched the dog, worked her up and
> down the fence until she learned
> some respect for humans and dogs,
> and put her in the freezer a few
> weeks later.

> We ear tag and tattoo calves at
> birth, either in the corral or in
> the pasture, and have yet to have
> one of our cows challenge us.

> We never, ever, "pet"
> our bulls. That is a dangerous
> practice, in my opinion. I always
> carry a good sorting stick when
> entering a bull corral and the dog
> is outside the pen just in case
> there's trouble. In a pasture
> situation, we work on horseback,
> or on foot with the cowdog. When I
> fix fence in the bull pasture, the
> dog is at my side.

> Culling for disposition is the
> first step toward a herd that is
> easier to handle than most. Using
> calm methods of handling is
> another step, as is taking a few
> minutes to learn to work with the
> natural instincts of the cow.

> The worst cow I ever attempted to
> AI in my life was a Simmental who
> was usually moved with a hotshot,
> and who had had so many large
> calves in her short breeding
> history that her insides were full
> of scar tissue. I like Simmentals.
> This one was wild in the chute
> because of the way she had been
> handled all her life. Her owner
> has zip when it comes to patience,
> but is always amazed when he sees
> me handling our cattle. He
> "wishes he had time" to
> move his cattle like I do. Funny.
> It takes him twice as long to work
> his herd, ten times the effort,
> and tons of frustration and
> cussing.

> We work our cows from horseback
> when gathering in the pasture, we
> team pen on the weekends, and we
> use the dog when necessary, but
> not on a regular basis. Our cows
> aren't pets by any means, and I
> have seen our momma cows put more
> than one cowdog back up on the
> porch (a friend's dog, not mine).
> They are easy with humans, but
> hell on dogs. They protect their
> babies from predators, but do not
> see humans as such.

Linda, I enjoy reading your posts because they are always informative,well written and helpful.I too love and raise the Murray Grey's. I would appreciate the opportunity to pick your brain (by private email)about the "Grey's".

[email protected]
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Cheers to Linda! Patience, positive reinforcement (food treat, esp. if they haven't been fed that morning or evening) will work wonders in sorting, working, loading cattle. They don't have to be pets. However, a touch of appropriate animal psychology and all goes a long way to easy livestock management. Punishment gets one only momentary compliance; positive reinforcement brings long-term behavior change in an acceptable format. Being in a hurry to work an animal only causes frustration to the cowpoke and opens the door to mistakes and potential punishment paradigms.
 
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A

Anonymous

Guest
Right on! Agree 100% Also see my response to Linda. Cattle (and other critters) DO remember stuff...they're not stupid. Positive reinforcement; only use appropriate "correction" (a/k/a mild punishment) for really "Bad" behavior. If a critter respects you and trusts you, then your problems are minimized. Carrying a white "show stick" around to help the critter respect your personal space (as an extension of your arm) and knowing your different animals' personalities go a long way to easy management. With our Longhorns, we KNOW the behaviors and personalities of EACH animal---for our own safety and peace of mind and daily management. One cow of ours will let us pet and pick up her new calf with her only a few feet away; another cow is extremely protective of her calves--we know our limits on these two and all the other's personalities in between.
 
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A

Anonymous

Guest
> needing advice on the best cattle
> prod on the market. Does anyone
> have suggestions and why do you
> like a certain kind? thanks so
> much!

Don't you just love the feed back you've gotten? You ask a simple question and you get everything from (my bulls jump in the trailer to you're a cruel person sic the dog on em). Looks like you got 2 people to answer the "question".
 

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