Wanna hear a story ???

[AudieWyoming]

Thank You Jeanne
With out digging and looking it up that was my first instint, higher levels of sulfer and Iodine. @

Audie - try adding extra Iodine in the mineral mix. It is good for footrot.

 

[TexasBred]

Thank You Jeanne
With out digging and looking it up that was my first instint, higher levels of sulfer and Iodine. @

Audie - try adding extra Iodine in the mineral mix. It is good for footrot.

Look for Zinc Methionine Complex or Zinc Amino Acid Complex in the list of ingredients in your mineral as well as any feed you buy. This is a high quality source of organic zinc which will improve hoof health and make them less susceptable to things like foot rot.

 

[TexasBred]

Hoof trimming is for dairy cattle forced to work on concrete.

Under normal circumstances beef cattle should never need trimming. Wouldn't buy anything from someone whose cattle did.

Keyword...NORMAL..what's that?? And why would dairy cattle hoofs be ground down on concrete just like beef cattle on rough soil?? Totally different problem.

 

[hillsdown]

I was told that dairy cattle's hooves are very soft and grow fast when they are fresh/milking. Add to that the high energy and protein ration they are fed you get hoof problems. Then put them in manure and on concrete or slats , add further hoof problems. I guess if you ran your beef the same way the results would be similar. I know that the grass fed operations in Europe that I have toured ,their cattle do not need trimming near as much as our confinement operation did. Their cattle also did not milk anywhere close to ours either.

I have more stories to tell about this operation but I will save a couple of doozies for another post. ;-)

 

[AngusLimoX]

Hoof trimming is for dairy cattle forced to work on concrete.

Under normal circumstances beef cattle should never need trimming. Wouldn't buy anything from someone whose cattle did.

Keyword...NORMAL..what's that?? And why would dairy cattle hoofs be ground down on concrete just like beef cattle on rough soil?? Totally different problem.

I am sure google can help you with a definition of normal, and do you have a statement to make or do you seriously need these questions answered for you.

 

[TexasBred]

I was told that dairy cattle's hooves are very soft and grow fast when they are fresh/milking. Add to that the high energy and protein ration they are fed you get hoof problems. Then put them in manure and on concrete or slats , add further hoof problems. I guess if you ran your beef the same way the results would be similar. I know that the grass fed operations in Europe that I have toured ,their cattle do not need trimming near as much as our confinement operation did. Their cattle also did not milk anywhere close to ours either.

I have more stories to tell about this operation but I will save a couple of doozies for another post. ;-)

HD that is why the dry period is so important n dairy cattle. Special rations, special mineral etc. prepare the cow as well as possible for the stress of the upcoming 10 months or so. Ration will effect hooves only if the ration is not properly balanced acidosis occurs. Othewise one of the biggest culprits is just "moisture". Whether on concrete, in mud or on pasture, dairy cattle are continuously exposed to high moisture.

 

[TexasBred]

Angus I had a statment to make...I also asked a question. Apparently both went right over your "comb over". :dunce:

 

[AngusLimoX]

Angus I had a statment to make...I also asked a question. Apparently both went right over your "comb over". :dunce:

Ask your question. Then make your statement. Do it slowly for me.And the rest of us.

 

[AudieWyoming]

TexasBred; I think you helped me learn something new. I had heard some where before that chelated minerals were more readily available to cattle/livestock but they didn't really explain what they were or how it worked.

Today I was comparing mineral feed tags at the local feed store. I knew their higher priced line of mineral, among other things, contained chelated trace minerals Zn, Cu, Mn, and 2 others. I noticed it contained each of these elements as __ Amino Acid Complex, the cheaper mix by the same company did not. They just had the rock form Zink Oxide, Zink Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Cobalt Sulfate ect.

Do we have a chemistry major or nutritionist here that can expand on this? @

Look for Zinc Methionine Complex or Zinc Amino Acid Complex in the list of ingredients in your mineral as well as any feed you buy. This is a high quality source of organic zinc which will improve hoof health and make them less susceptable to things like foot rot.

 

[TexasBred]

TexasBred; I think you helped me learn something new. I had heard some where before that chelated minerals were more readily available to cattle/livestock but they didn't really explain what they were or how it worked.

Today I was comparing mineral feed tags at the local feed store. I knew their higher priced line of mineral, among other things, contained chelated trace minerals Zn, Cu, Mn, and 2 others. I noticed it contained each of these elements as __ Amino Acid Complex, the cheaper mix by the same company did not. They just had the rock form Zink Oxide, Zink Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Cobalt Sulfate ect.

Do we have a chemistry major or nutritionist here that can expand on this? @

Look for Zinc Methionine Complex or Zinc Amino Acid Complex in the list of ingredients in your mineral as well as any feed you buy. This is a high quality source of organic zinc which will improve hoof health and make them less susceptable to things like foot rot.

Audie...I think you just did. ;-) It would take a lot of space to explain. Zinpro Corp. makes some great products. You can go to their website and read about Zinpro, Zinpro-4 Plex and Availa 4....The last two contain zinc, manganese, copper and cobalt in chelated form. Availa 4 the same but more concentrated. Several other companies make "copy cats" or something similar often referenced as "proteinates".


Now I have to ask angus my question once more. What is "normal"???

 

[AngusLimoX]

Now I have to ask angus my question once more. What is "normal"???

When beef cattle don't need pedicures.

 

[TexasBred]

Now I have to ask angus my question once more. What is "normal"???

When beef cattle don't need pedicures.

A pedicure is not a necessity or sign of a deficiency....it's a treat that "pays for itself". ;-)

 

[Frankie]

TexasBred; I think you helped me learn something new. I had heard some where before that chelated minerals were more readily available to cattle/livestock but they didn't really explain what they were or how it worked.

Today I was comparing mineral feed tags at the local feed store. I knew their higher priced line of mineral, among other things, contained chelated trace minerals Zn, Cu, Mn, and 2 others. I noticed it contained each of these elements as __ Amino Acid Complex, the cheaper mix by the same company did not. They just had the rock form Zink Oxide, Zink Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Cobalt Sulfate ect.

Do we have a chemistry major or nutritionist here that can expand on this? @

Look for Zinc Methionine Complex or Zinc Amino Acid Complex in the list of ingredients in your mineral as well as any feed you buy. This is a high quality source of organic zinc which will improve hoof health and make them less susceptable to things like foot rot.

Question: Does feeding the specialized, high cost, mineral fall into the "pampering" category? Like feeding grain? Would you automatically reject a bull from a herd that you knew fed them special minerals? After all, he won't get them at your place?

 

[TexasBred]

Feeding a well formulated mineral that utilizes the highest quality ingredients is always worth the money. Your feed dealer will just sometimes really price it high tho. You're holding 4 aces and waiting on the 5th card....not drawing to an inside straight. I'd rather feed two bags of a mineral that will be 90% utilized than one bag of a mineral that 75-80% of it simply passes thru the animal. It's not pampering. It's good management and a money maker in the end.

As for the bull Frankie...I'd hope the buyer would ask the seller what kind of mineral he had been feeding or the seller volunteer to recommend the high quality mineral knowing he is doing the buyer a favor.

 

[Frankie]

Feeding a well formulated mineral that utilizes the highest quality ingredients is always worth the money. Your feed dealer will just sometimes really price it high tho. You're holding 4 aces and waiting on the 5th card....not drawing to an inside straight. I'd rather feed two bags of a mineral that will be 90% utilized than one bag of a mineral that 75-80% of it simply passes thru the animal. It's not pampering. It's good management and a money maker in the end.

As for the bull Frankie...I'd hope the buyer would ask the seller what kind of mineral he had been feeding or the seller volunteer to recommend the high quality mineral knowing he is doing the buyer a favor.

I don't disagree. Since we get all the purists on here that scream and yell about feeding grain and "pampering" cattle, I just wondered where feeding high $$ mineral comes into the equation? Some people have mentioned mineral with stuff to help avoid footrot or improve fertility. What happens when the buyer takes a bull home and DOESN'T feed him with that kind of mineral? Will he get footrot? Is it an "ethics" issue? :lol:

 

[TexasBred]

I don't disagree. Since we get all the purists on here that scream and yell about feeding grain and "pampering" cattle, I just wondered where feeding high $$ mineral comes into the equation? Some people have mentioned mineral with stuff to help avoid footrot or improve fertility. What happens when the buyer takes a bull home and DOESN'T feed him with that kind of mineral? Will he get footrot? Is it an "ethics" issue? :lol2:

Everybody has to blame somebody when "s_ _ t happens. ;-)

 

[AngusLimoX]

Everybody has to blame somebody when "s_ _ t happens. ;-)

Around here the only one to blame is me. I appreciate the fact that over time the local suppliers have developed loose mineral mixtures that seem to provide the elements necessary for local cattle to be healthy. And it is the cheapest insurance going, maybe even better than vaccinating a closed herd.

Bringing something home that will not do well, hooves and all, on minerals and grass would be my fault.

 

[TexasBred]

Everybody has to blame somebody when "s_ _ t happens. ;-)

Around here the only one to blame is me. I appreciate the fact that over time the local suppliers have developed loose mineral mixtures that seem to provide the elements necessary for local cattle to be healthy. And it is the cheapest insurance going, maybe even better than vaccinating a closed herd.

Bringing something home that will not do well, hooves and all, on minerals and grass would be my fault.

A good mineral is one of those things you can't work out it's worth with a pencil. The same for the higher quality ingredients in a good one.But discontinue it and eventually you'll "Feel" the results or lack of results in your pocket book.

 

[AngusLimoX]

A good mineral is one of those things you can't work out it's worth with a pencil. The same for the higher quality ingredients in a good one.But discontinue it and eventually you'll "Feel" the results or lack of results in your pocket book.

Well said.