Vietnam

inyati13

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 17, 2011
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6,707
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Kentucky, Outer Bluegrass
Vietnam kicked America in the guts. I saw my dad cry at the funeral of his youngest sister’s son, Johnny Becker. Johnny was shot down in the helicopter he flew. I watched my brother Henry fly off to Vietnam and I saw mom and dad cry as we walked back to the car.

Tommy Miller was a boy a year older than my brother Henry. He was always in trouble. He gave us our first cigarette to smoke (I never smoked after that, it almost killed me). He was the first one I heard talk ornery. He dropped out of high school. He lived on the farm down the hill from us. He was a woods colt. His Uncle took him to raise. His Uncle was Sheryl Miller (I know that is a female name).

Tommy Miller got drafted. The money he earned in the service he sent to Sheryl and his wife, Serena to save so he could buy a car. Tommy came home on furlough before being sent to Vietnam. He got a ride to the end of the road and was walking back the gravel road to see Sheryl and Serena. The house was empty when he got there. He walked up the hill to our old farm house. He sat down at the table and cried to mom and dad. He said he told Sheryl he was coming home and they were not even there to greet him.

To add insult to injury, Sheryl had spent every penny Tommy had ever sent home. He finished his service and the next time he returned. The first place he came to was our old farm house. I saw him about 5 times after that. He always gave me a beer. He worked as a butcher at a slaughter house in Cincinnati. Then he drove a truck. But he was never sober. I ask dad when I came back to KY in 2010 if he ever heard from Tommy. He said he would come and see them once in a blue moon. He had kidney problems and was on dialysis. He died somewhere up in Ohio is all dad knew.
 
Some came home, some never made it back home, and some came home but never really came home.
Vietnam was a terrible time in the history of this country.
 
Effects of Nam touch all of us. Vet's talk, but never really say what they feel.
Always a guarded subject, silent about the real effects of the health disability many of
us deal with ever day and, both the good and bad memories we will carry forever.
RT
 
Wars - politicians start them, we have to fight them! Of the 300 Americans who joined the Rhodesian armed forces, many were Nam vets, they were represented in all the units and several rose to high ranks including commanding the armoured car unit, they were a great group of men to serve along with,dedicated and professional in their service.
 
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We lost a lot of good boys over there. I barely missed being drafted by having a lottery draft number high enough that by the time I got out of college, they weren't drafting that high. Very glad I didn't have to go, but very respectful of those who did. A lot guys I know who were there came home very messed up. One neighbor told me, "they trained me to kill; they made me want to kill; and then they wouldn't let me kill anybody". Another guy I used to work with was a 21-year-old Captain of a fire base (artillery. His base was overrun by Viet Cong and a total of 4 men out of 44 survived that battle. Another very close friend was a Tunnel Rat. If you don't know what that was, google Vietnam Tunnel Rats, and it will give you an idea of the horrors and of the courage these men had. The war was all about politics and politicians who wasted the lives of a lot of good boys. God bless all those who served.
 
Grandpa":1ph63jwq said:
The war was all about politics and politicians who wasted the lives of a lot of good boys.

No, it wasn't and that, is the REAL shame of Vietnam--that /\ is seen by so many, as it's legacy.
 
greybeard":1f9j2dxy said:
Grandpa":1f9j2dxy said:
The war was all about politics and politicians who wasted the lives of a lot of good boys.

No, it wasn't and that, is the REAL shame of Vietnam--that /\ is seen by so many, as it's legacy.

GB, since what Grandpa says has been the accepted wisdom re. Vietnam for many years, I would be very interested to hear what you think it was about. If it's not too painful could you please explain?
 
greybeard":1b6e5hk5 said:
Grandpa":1b6e5hk5 said:
The war was all about politics and politicians who wasted the lives of a lot of good boys.

No, it wasn't and that, is the REAL shame of Vietnam--that /\ is seen by so many, as it's legacy.

Our problem began under Truman in Korea we didn't go in to win. Truman shifted US policies to police actions and nation building.
That is why he fired Mc Arthur as he was on the way to Peking and had plans to lay a cobalt belt along the Chinese border.
Truman didn't have to drop the bomb on Japan as they were already trying to work out a peace treaty to end the war. We had already fire bombed them to submission. Had the US agreed to not occupy the island of Japan the war would have ended. The Japanese had been communicating with the Russians as an intermediary for months before we dropped the bomb. He dropped the bomb as a political message to Russia over the division of Europe mainly Poland.
 
greybeard":24ni105t said:
Grandpa":24ni105t said:
The war was all about politics and politicians who wasted the lives of a lot of good boys.

No, it wasn't and that, is the REAL shame of Vietnam--that /\ is seen by so many, as it's legacy.

Thank you, GB!
I was just a little kid when the war ended (8-9 years old). That same mantra was repeated over and over, ad nauseum, the entire time I was in school. Especially high school. It wasn't until I was in my 20's that I started to find some of the truth.
It is absolutely criminal, IMHO, that the same POS's who spat upon our returning military, where/are allowed to teach/preach/spew their twisted version of events to the youth of this country. Who was it was said...'repeat a lie enough times and it becomes the truth'...
 
Caustic Burno":1aror0ld said:
greybeard":1aror0ld said:
Grandpa":1aror0ld said:
The war was all about politics and politicians who wasted the lives of a lot of good boys.

No, it wasn't and that, is the REAL shame of Vietnam--that /\ is seen by so many, as it's legacy.

Our problem began under Truman in Korea we didn't go in to win. Truman shifted US policies to police actions and nation building.
That is why he fired Mc Arthur as he was on the way to Peking and had plans to lay a cobalt belt along the Chinese border.
Truman didn't have to drop the bomb on Japan as they were already trying to work out a peace treaty to end the war. We had already fire bombed them to submission. Had the US agreed to not occupy the island of Japan the war would have ended. The Japanese had been communicating with the Russians as an intermediary for months before we dropped the bomb. He dropped the bomb as a political message to Russia over the division of Europe mainly Poland.

That sounds pretty much like it was about politics and politicians CB....
 
My father served 3 tours in Vietnam as an SOG operative and also as an adviser to a unit of Montagnards. I was just a baby when he finished his last tour in 70. It was understood that we were to never talk about it or ask him any questions. He would never talk about it and on those rare occasions when he did it was in very general terms. It wasn't until I came home on leave after basic training that he opened up a bit. Enough for me to know that he saw and did things that would put many folks in a mental ward. After I had several combat experiences of my own he opened up and talked about it with me like I was an old Army buddy. Maybe it was because he felt that I could relate and not be as judgmental or maybe it was just his age showing and it was time to get some things off his chest. He was about 27 or 28 and an experienced officer when he deployed on his first tour and I think he felt a responsible because he lost so many of the young guys on his teams over the various tours. Those kids looked up to him like an older uncle. He is in his 70's now and still doesn't talk about it. He did say that he always felt that the overall mission was a just cause but he disagreed with the execution of the plan. He always felt that we should have pulled out all of the stops to win no matter what it took.
 
As a former military officer, and a son that's done 3 tours in Iraq/Afghanistan, I look forward to the day when our military is actually used for defense. Not mucking around the world messing in other country's business.

Of course, you get accused of hating America if you question our policies and wars. I agree with Thomas Paine:
"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government."

I also agree with General Smedley Butler: War is a racket:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf ... le4377.htm

I also agree with General/President Eisenhower when he warned about the military/industrial complex.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY

Perhaps this hurts some feelings, but I'm tired of seeing trillions of dollars wasted, and thousands of lives lost or ruined for no clear reason - no clear threat to national security.
Just saw this 60 Minutes a few weeks ago:
http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/the-war-w ... ting-ptsd/

If we would stop overthrowing governments, occupying foreign lands, imposing sanctions, bombing, etc, etc, we wouldn't become a target. But I suppose making enemies is good for business.
 
Everything, is a racket. Everything and everybody has their gimmick, their deal, their juice, their traction. War just happens to get the most publicity--just as it has from mankind's ancient beginnings. There has always been war and there always will be war, whether we go looking for it, or not. Whether we meddle afar or stay at home. As homo sapiens, it's what we do, and we do it very well and very frequently. Always have.
 
greybeard":fc0wszm6 said:
Grandpa":fc0wszm6 said:
The war was all about politics and politicians who wasted the lives of a lot of good boys.

No, it wasn't and that, is the REAL shame of Vietnam--that /\ is seen by so many, as it's legacy.

Sorry. That wasn't my own quote. I was quoting both the tunnel rat and the 4th survivor of that fire base. They both said it to me, and I respect them enough not to contradict them. When CB says our forces didn't go in to win, he is right. They weren't allowed to win. Hard to believe our military commanders would have that philosophy. Had to come from higher up the political ladder.
 
Yes, it was all a big huge conspiracy, with 4 or 5 different nations in collusion to make it come out as it did, and thousands of upper echelon military personnel from each of those nations remaining secretive about The Plan even all these years later.

:roll:
 
Caustic Burno":36ged3z3 said:
greybeard":36ged3z3 said:
Grandpa":36ged3z3 said:
The war was all about politics and politicians who wasted the lives of a lot of good boys.

No, it wasn't and that, is the REAL shame of Vietnam--that /\ is seen by so many, as it's legacy.

Our problem began under Truman in Korea we didn't go in to win. Truman shifted US policies to police actions and nation building.
That is why he fired Mc Arthur as he was on the way to Peking and had plans to lay a cobalt belt along the Chinese border.
Truman didn't have to drop the bomb on Japan as they were already trying to work out a peace treaty to end the war. We had already fire bombed them to submission. Had the US agreed to not occupy the island of Japan the war would have ended. The Japanese had been communicating with the Russians as an intermediary for months before we dropped the bomb. He dropped the bomb as a political message to Russia over the division of Europe mainly Poland.
That's not exactly true. You are correct about the cobalt corridor, but that wasn't really what got MacArtor fired. Truman himself had threatened to use nukes in the Korean War and really had no qualms about doing so. His issue with Mac wasn't about using them--his concern was the general didn't know how to do it correctly. Even after MacArthur was replaced by Ridgeway, Ridgeway requested nukes and Truman and the Chiefs of staff had them sent to Kadena for assembly.
That and the fact that that Truman was a egomaniac and didn't like anyone getting more public attention than himself.

http://hnn.us/article/9245
 

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