Valbazen??

[greggy]

It seems, from a quick look at what orals are available, they are all similar to the very old panacur, pour ons or injectable there is much newer drenches, or dewormers.

Seems we have Valbazen brand too, but it is only showing for sheep and goats. There must be a reason for that. It also seems to be similar too Panacur.

 

[greggy]

http://www.pestgenie.com.au/label/sp/VALBAZEN_29101645.pdf

 

[greggy]

White wormers are short lived for most worms in cattle. They are more of a flush than the ivermectins. Our vet recommends a second dose of drench/white wormers about 25-26d after first dose. It is a bit of a pain, but I think it works well for us. We drench the cows and calves 2X in spring, and then on the second dose, we also use an injectable ivermectin on the calves only to give a little longer treatment. Works well.

The old white drench like panacur does nothing here with sheep, too old, you can use it on cattle, but I see no reason why it would be more effective in them than sheep ? seems same parasites. Or maybe there is differences even though names the same.

Even the mectins are becoming less useful I am told, combos, 2, 3 or 4ways, however, if you go straight to 4 way and get resistance, you have nothing left.

I had a few issues with worms this year, it kills lambs, the cattle do not have that issue.

 

[Petercoates87]

So I have had a look at their noses. All the calves had a sweaty looking nose. Like lil bubbles of water on their noses. So I'm only assuming they all may have a touch of lung worm. Keep in mind I stable all winter. Also the since the first dose of valbazen I have noticed the heifers manure improving. It's not so horse like and a bit greener. The vet said to give her 20mls. It hardly seems like enough. I have a dairy weigh tape, it was the only one the feed store had. But she is saying 630lbs on that. Some old farmer hands say to add 50lbs to that number. So how much per lbs can I give her again in a few days ??

 

[alisonb]

It makes sense...treat pneumonia with antibiotic(Nuflor) and deworm in case of lung worm. Get rid of the worms and chances of animal recovering from pneumonia are far better.

 

[76 Bar]

I have a dairy weigh tape, it was the only one the feed store had. But she is saying 630lbs on that. Some old farmer hands say to add 50lbs to that number. So how much per lbs can I give her again in a few days ??

I've never used a weigh tape. There are numerous versions and are species & breed specific. Don't know if the Dairy and Beef tapes are interchangeable. At best tape results are going to be general and not exact compared to a physical scale. The link below is Zoetis's Valbazen product info.
https://valleyvet.cvpservice.com/product/view/basic/3690030
Short answer on cattle dosage is 4 ml/100 lbs.
Valbazen has a very low toxicity level and a second treatment can be done (& often recommended) 2-4 weeks following the initial treatment. If you have any questions the link includes a customer service number.

 

[VaCowman]

White wormers are short lived for most worms in cattle. They are more of a flush than the ivermectins. Our vet recommends a second dose of drench/white wormers about 25-26d after first dose. It is a bit of a pain, but I think it works well for us. We drench the cows and calves 2X in spring, and then on the second dose, we also use an injectable ivermectin on the calves only to give a little longer treatment. Works well.

The old white drench like panacur does nothing here with sheep, too old, you can use it on cattle, but I see no reason why it would be more effective in them than sheep ? seems same parasites. Or maybe there is differences even though names the same.

Even the mectins are becoming less useful I am told, combos, 2, 3 or 4ways, however, if you go straight to 4 way and get resistance, you have nothing left.

I had a few issues with worms this year, it kills lambs, the cattle do not have that issue.

I have no experience with sheep. Around here, most cattle folks have used the ivermectins for so long, season after season, 2-3 times per season. Our worms have built up resistance to the ivermectins, but the old white wormers have been effective for the most part since the bugs have not seen that chemistry for so long...mainly because its a little more of a pain in the butt to dose them vs. a squirt while they at the feed bunk or running by you as they go thru gate.

 

[76 Bar]

Another plus for drenching is providing the opportunity for mouthing the cattle.

 

[Lucky_P]

We are at a point where resistance to multiple classes of dewormers is present across the board. Boot Jack nailed it - only deworm those animals that NEED it. The vast majority of cattle above 2 years of age don't need deworming. If we keep on 'deworming the entire herd'... it's only going to get worse... 'cause you're killing off all the refugia(worms that are susceptible to the dewormer), and all that's left to breed and produce the next generation of worms are those that are resistant. Keep doing that over and over, and pretty soon... nothing is going to work. We've already seen that happen in spades with folks raising goats.

We're already at a point where the macrocyclic lactones (the 'ivermectin' class) don't work against Haemonchus and Cooperia.
Pour-ons... most of their efficacy is related to ingestion by cows licking themselves/one another, not to 'absorption' through the skin.
Oral administration of the MLs has increased efficacy against resistant worms IN the GI tract, vs activity of injected MLs. That said, should you give pour-ons orally? IDK... they weren't formulated for adminstration by that route.

And... for those of you who keep using pour-on ivermectin-type products for 'fly control'... you're only making it that much worse, and speeding your way toward selecting a population of worms totally resistant to that class of dewormers...
And... resistance to the MLs is... forever.

Long-Range?... Should only ever be administered to something that's gonna have its head cut off (stockers heading for the feedlot)... and you'd better not be running those stockers with your cow-calf herd... and don't plan on bringing heifers out of that stocker group back into the herd as replacements...

So many mistakes have been made... and, unfortunately, my veterinary colleagues and extension livestock specialists have been responsible for passing out a lot of bad advice over the years.

 

[kenny thomas]

Lucky_P, explain your statement about the long-range please

 

[Lucky_P]

If you give LongRange, it's delivering eprinomectin every second of every minute of every hour of every day of every week for 5 months or so... constantly selecting for a population of super-resistant nematode parasites... and then there's the 'long tail' of less-than-effective drug levels beyond the end of that 5 month period that adds even more selection pressure. You do NOT want those super-resistant worms on the premises where your cow-calf herd or youngstock live.

 

[kenny thomas]

If you give LongRange, it's delivering eprinomectin every second of every minute of every hour of every day of every week for 5 months or so... constantly selecting for a population of super-resistant nematode parasites... and then there's the 'long tail' of less-than-effective drug levels beyond the end of that 5 month period that adds even more selection pressure. You do NOT want those super-resistant worms on the premises where your cow-calf herd or youngstock live.

Thank you for your help.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Lucky_P - what is a good LONG term effective lice control? Right now I have DeLice, but you have to apply twice - two weeks apart. Right now, we can use the pour-on dewormers - control worms (maybe)/grubs & lice.

 

[76 Bar]

Will be enlightening when Lucky_P responds Jeanne. FWIW I've had the best long term success bitting/sucking louse control via https://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=E18CAD5C-2319-404C-8608-ED104C730889#tab-info
The good news its very effective. The bad is its viscocity is a challenge to apply via typical applicators.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

76 - thanks for that info.

 

[Stocker Steve]

We are at a point where resistance to multiple classes of dewormers is present across the board. Boot Jack nailed it - only deworm those animals that NEED it. The vast majority of cattle above 2 years of age don't need deworming.

So how should we approach the good old "strategic deworming" of stockers?

 

[greggy]

I am not sure about there with cattle, nor here really, but here with sheep, which worms are a larger problem and cause losses, rotation is supposed to be used.

With my place, I am not sure what the prior owners did or used, but the white wormer I have used for 2 years and it is no longer effective on at least barbers pole, I am about to rotate away to a mectin, so I will see how it goes, it is an old one too, but I know it has not been used by me so the worms should no longer be resistant to it.

I am not sure about the stance of not doing all, I have in the past only treated those that need it by displaying worm load problems, but logically this would mean there is a lot of worm left, I had it in my mind, that going to a new wormer, I would hit them all, so it knocks as many back as I can. I know there is quite a few that are effected atm. It equally makes sense that if you only do those that need it, they should be shedding worm that has little resistance to anything if the host has never had wormer, but they would be picking up the worm from the effected ones too that may have resistance unless you keep in separate paddocks.

If your moving stock too, it make sense to knock as much down as possible then moving to clean pasture.

There is so much to know, it is hard to keep everything front of mind.

 

[greggy]

We are at a point where resistance to multiple classes of dewormers is present across the board. Boot Jack nailed it - only deworm those animals that NEED it. The vast majority of cattle above 2 years of age don't need deworming.

So how should we approach the good old "strategic deworming" of stockers?

Prob have to know locally what will work, prob by testing, or vets may know.

I see most are pour ons here, most are very expensive, not many sell the white oral drench for cattle, it may be the way to go here for a while, but without testing, or obvious visual signs, I am not sure, so am interested to hear replies on this. Rotating would make sense with any active at times.

Maybe it is kinda like mineral, very hard to tell without tests at times, cattle def less worried about worm loads from what I have seen it would appear to me ?