vaccines mixing and such ??

[BryanM]

I have a question on what do you cattle owner due at birth time as far as vaccines and such. We are a small time hobby farm with a growing herd. We have a new vet this year and he put us on a program that he and many other cattle owners have good luck with.

So far so good, we are to give nasal enforce at birth and a mixable vaccine modified and killed virus all at birth. No Problem! Here lies the problem after mixing vaccines and giving vaccines the rest is to be thrown away right? Well My calves are ai'd and all didnt take so I am spread out when they will calve.

I am not suppose to freeze after mixing right, so that either leaves me with buying a 10 dose and throwing away 9 doses or buying 25 single doses which will go bad in a year. what do you guys / gals do when not owning 25 cows? can these vet supplies sell just say 5 single doses? I keep trying to tell my wife we need to buy more cows to justify the cost of the vaccines.

 

[Banjo]

I certainly wouldn't have a clue....since I haven't vaccinated or eartagged a new born calf in my entire life.
I almost forgot to mention that I have good luck with my program.

 

[dun]

You can't freeze it once it's reconstituted. If you can;t use it right away you will have to toss it. If you buy the single doses from the vet, he should be willing to buy back (credit you) what you don;t use.

 

[Limomike]

I'm not going to knock what your vet is having you do, but I am with Banjo on this one. I have never vaccinated a new born calf in my 20+ years of raising beef cattle.

 

[DavisBeefmasters]

Our vet says that the little calves don't operate with their own immune system until they are about 4 months of age.

The day old calves only get the following out here:
- ear tag
- weighed
- BoSe (we are selenium deficient)
- TSV2 intranasal to prevent pneumonia (and it comes in 1-dose vials)

 

[Lucky_P]

Inforce-3 comes in single-dose vials, which is what you need if you don't have enough calves ready at one time to use a full 5 or 10-dose vial. And, no, you can't freeze/thaw and use reconstituted mlv vaccines - gotta use 'em within an hour or so of reconstitution or throw 'em out.

DavisBM, your vet's not been keeping up with current discoveries about immune function. Calves' immune systems ARE functional from day one, and 'maternal antibody' does not appear to interfere with calf response to most vaccines; they do have a 'slump' from about day 3 to day 7, so current recommendations are not to give any vaccine in that window - if you want the calf to respond adequately.

Respiratory disease is a rare thing on my place. I certainly have no need to be vaccinating newborns for anything, though if you've had respiratory or scours issues in the past, your vet may be correct in his/her recommendation. I do try to get an initial dose of 5-way Clostridial bacterin into my calves some time in the first month, then booster @3 months or so.
Inforce-3 is a very good product; we use it as the initial vacc. in our pre-weaning program - Inforce 3 and a Mannheimia/Pasteurella bacterin/toxoid given, then followed up 10-14 days later with an injectible mlv such as BoviShield Gold 5.

 

[Banjo]

Unless someone is calving in a barn or in a small lot where you can easily separate the calf from the cow, the risks associated with tagging, banding, vaccinating, newborn calves in the open pasture is not worth it too me.
Farmers/ranchers get hurt/killed every year by a protective mama..... messing with their newborn calves.
I had a friend of mine almost died a couple of years ago trying to eartag a calf one night, the cow bumped him a couple of times as to try to warn him to go away, but when he finally put the tag thru the calf's ear, it bawled and the mama plowed the ground with him for about 50 or 60 feet. He was busted all up inside and almost died.

 

[Black and Good]

Unless someone is calving in a barn or in a small lot where you can easily separate the calf from the cow, the risks associated with tagging, banding, vaccinating, newborn calves in the open pasture is not worth it too me.
Farmers/ranchers get hurt/killed every year by a protective mama..... messing with their newborn calves.
I had a friend of mine almost died a couple of years ago trying to eartag a calf one night, the cow bumped him a couple of times as to try to warn him to go away, but when he finally put the tag thru the calf's ear, it bawled and the mama plowed the ground with him for about 50 or 60 feet. He was busted all up inside and almost died.

All I can say, is my cows can get upset, but if they can't tell me from a real predator, they are going to get a free ride to town. I eag tag and band all my calves in their first three days. I don't give them shots though unless they come real early or I see a need. B&G

 

[BryanM]

Thanks for the input everyone! My intent was not to start an argument on weither you would give a newborn vaccines or not too. We have chosen that this was a path that we would take this year basing it on this particular vet and his clients.

We are a small time operation and I use that term loosely! Ha Ha We own only a few head with plans of getting more, more of a hobby farm than anything.

Are cattle are broke to halter and lead, let me stop their also saying we dont have 1300 LBS + pets, so we instill in all family members what animals will do to protect their young. and for that matter any other time.

We do calve in our barn and we can seperate cows from calves easily. makes working with calves easy.

My question had more to do with what you do with the meds you use, Taking it basically I got you wait till you have a group of calves or all then vaccinate or give meds so theirs min waste. Thanks

 

[dun]

Thanks for the input everyone! My intent was not to start an argument on weither you would give a newborn vaccines or not too. We have chosen that this was a path that we would take this year basing it on this particular vet and his clients.

We are a small time operation and I use that term loosely! Ha Ha We own only a few head with plans of getting more, more of a hobby farm than anything.

Are cattle are broke to halter and lead, let me stop their also saying we dont have 1300 LBS + pets, so we instill in all family members what animals will do to protect their young. and for that matter any other time.

We do calve in our barn and we can seperate cows from calves easily. makes working with calves easy.

My question had more to do with what you do with the meds you use, Taking it basically I got you wait till you have a group of calves or all then vaccinate or give meds so theirs min waste. Thanks

Thelast sentence sums it up, UNLESS, if you have had a scour problem it wouldn;t hurt to give them the dose of Calf-Guard orally at birth. It comes in single dose packaging so you just mix a dose when a clf is born and squirt it into their mouth

 

[inyati13]

Unless someone is calving in a barn or in a small lot where you can easily separate the calf from the cow, the risks associated with tagging, banding, vaccinating, newborn calves in the open pasture is not worth it too me.
Farmers/ranchers get hurt/killed every year by a protective mama..... messing with their newborn calves.
I had a friend of mine almost died a couple of years ago trying to eartag a calf one night, the cow bumped him a couple of times as to try to warn him to go away, but when he finally put the tag thru the calf's ear, it bawled and the mama plowed the ground with him for about 50 or 60 feet. He was busted all up inside and almost died.

Banjo, some on here already know I mess with my cattle to an extreme. But I am very careful with cows and calves. I, like BryanM61, band my bull calves as soon as I can. I do not vaccinate them but this year I am using the Calf Guard by Pfizer to see if I can reduce the occurence of scours. But I separate the calf when I do that. As you said, when they bawl, the mother can become extremely aggressive. The one I just banded about 2 weeks ago wanted a piece of me even when I was putting the little guy back to her. And she had her head looking over the heavy wall between her and me. I knew she could not go through it but I thought she might be thinking about going over it and she is athletic with big long legs. I shot a dose of the Calf Guard down his throat with in two hours after birth. He was still damp. I give my first vaccination of Clostridial 8-way when they are about 2 to 3 months old. Then follow that with the viral vaccinations and lepto.

 

[DavisBeefmasters]

DavisBM, your vet's not been keeping up with current discoveries about immune function. Calves' immune systems ARE functional from day one, and 'maternal antibody' does not appear to interfere with calf response to most vaccines; they do have a 'slump' from about day 3 to day 7, so current recommendations are not to give any vaccine in that window - if you want the calf to respond adequately.

Looks like we will have more to discuss than "open" or "bred" in the next month ;-)

Thanks

 

[Banjo]

Unless someone is calving in a barn or in a small lot where you can easily separate the calf from the cow, the risks associated with tagging, banding, vaccinating, newborn calves in the open pasture is not worth it too me.
Farmers/ranchers get hurt/killed every year by a protective mama..... messing with their newborn calves.
I had a friend of mine almost died a couple of years ago trying to eartag a calf one night, the cow bumped him a couple of times as to try to warn him to go away, but when he finally put the tag thru the calf's ear, it bawled and the mama plowed the ground with him for about 50 or 60 feet. He was busted all up inside and almost died.

Banjo, some on here already know I mess with my cattle to an extreme. But I am very careful with cows and calves. I, like BryanM61, band my bull calves as soon as I can. I do not vaccinate them but this year I am using the Calf Guard by Pfizer to see if I can reduce the occurence of scours. But I separate the calf when I do that. As you said, when they bawl, the mother can become extremely aggressive. The one I just banded about 2 weeks ago wanted a piece of me even when I was putting the little guy back to her. And she had her head looking over the heavy wall between her and me. I knew she could not go through it but I thought she might be thinking about going over it and she is athletic with big long legs. I shot a dose of the Calf Guard down his throat with in two hours after birth. He was still damp. I give my first vaccination of Clostridial 8-way when they are about 2 to 3 months old. Then follow that with the viral vaccinations and lepto.

Its great that you get a lot of enjoyment out of your cattle....Its easy to get attached to animals especially the calves. Everybody has their own program and if it works thats great. I will say this though, if anybody is having a problem with calves scouring, it is usually because the cows milk is too rich and that is caused by too much feed...where they are being fed a grain supplement. Even these high PPM minerals and protein tubs free choice for the mama cow can make a calf scour IMO. This may go against conventional thinking, but I have observed it to be true for several years now. Feed the cow her natural diet...grass and hay and the calf will rarely have any problems.

 

[dun]

Its great that you get a lot of enjoyment out of your cattle....Its easy to get attached to animals especially the calves. Everybody has their own program and if it works thats great. I will say this though, if anybody is having a problem with calves scouring, it is usually because the cows milk is too rich and that is caused by too much feed...where they are being fed a grain supplement. Even these high PPM minerals and protein tubs free choice for the mama cow can make a calf scour IMO. This may go against conventional thinking, but I have observed it to be true for several years now. Feed the cow her natural diet...grass and hay and the calf will rarely have any problems.

That's great for milk scours, but not all calf scours are from that. Sight an smell tell you the difference.

 

[Banjo]

Its great that you get a lot of enjoyment out of your cattle....Its easy to get attached to animals especially the calves. Everybody has their own program and if it works thats great. I will say this though, if anybody is having a problem with calves scouring, it is usually because the cows milk is too rich and that is caused by too much feed...where they are being fed a grain supplement. Even these high PPM minerals and protein tubs free choice for the mama cow can make a calf scour IMO. This may go against conventional thinking, but I have observed it to be true for several years now. Feed the cow her natural diet...grass and hay and the calf will rarely have any problems.

That's great for milk scours, but not all calf scours are from that. Sight an smell tell you the difference.

I have no doubt you are a very smart man. With all due respect, maybe you can tell me why I don't have a scour problem. In just about every instance that I hear of a cow/calf operator with milk scours, bloodyscours, or whatever other kind there is, where calves die, they are feeding some kind of high octane feed. Maybe I'm just plain lucky, I doubt it. Feel free to educate me, seriously.

 

[dun]

Our cows are on pasture, good wuality fescue hay if it's real early in the season, that's it. We had severe scour issues one year and not milkscours. We broke the cycle by giving the scour gaurd orally at birth to the calves in one pasture that had been contaminated by calves with scours. That one pasture had been flooded a year before from way to much rain. The grass was the same but the silt that was washed in was apparantly contaminated. Milk scours does not respond to antibiotics, only removing the hot milk will do that. If the hot milk is removed milkscours will clear up in a day or less.