Vaccinations

[bscattle]

I am assuming that the friend that we are getting the calves from will have vaccinate them, maybe? Not sure, but what vaccination should we do if anything? What about deworming…I know you can do pellets that you can put in their feed.

 

[kenny thomas]

Never asume they have been vaccinated.

 

[Brute 23]

Find a local vet and call them. Let them know the situation and ask for a recommendation and quote.

We have old school cow vets. It would be $20-30-ish a head for the works. If a person wants to learn they will show you exactly what to do.

A lot of times not having to buy a full bottle of certain vacs offsets the labor.

It may not be the most profitable in the moment but it's a good investment long term.

 

[Dave]

You can look at my thread "weaned calves" and see what we gave to the calves we weaned last week on a 103 degree day. I don't advise weaning calves in weather that hot. But we were up against it for other reasons.

 

[TCRanch]

I'd start by asking your friend about the vaccination history of the calves - if any - and whether they received colostrum, etc.

A local vet is your best resource on what vaccinations are appropriate for your area (geography matters). And you'll have to establish a client-vet relationship anyway for most antibiotics, emergency farm calls, etc.

That said, my calves get Inforce 3 and First Defense (either bolus or Tri Shield gel) at birth. Triangle 4+PH-K, Cavalry 9, an autogenous pinkeye (covers Moxarella bovis, Moxarella bovoculi and mycoplasma bovoculi) and wormed with Cydectin at appx. 3 months. Vista Once, Cavalry 9 and Cydectin at weaning (heifers also get Lutalyse).

 

[Brute 23]

@TCRanch is absolutely right about geography. That's why it's best to talk with a pro as close to your area as possible.

I have a form at home our vet puts out that I will look at later just to show the difference in areas. I'm a multimen fan to help with the transition from milk to grass/ feed.

 

[Lucky_P]

@Dave - 103! There is no way in hell that I'd have worked or weaned calves in that sort of heat. It's a wonder you didn't have some heat-related deaths, and the likelihood is that their immune response to that huge, varied, antigenic mass you plugged into them (Ultrabac-8, BoviShield Gold, Nasalgen, Pasteurella - all at one fell swoop) may be less than optimal, at best.
You may have 'vaccinated' those calves, but you may not have 'immunized' them... th next person up the chain may get an ugly surprise if they're expecting protection against BRD based on their 'vaccination history'.

Hope you kept your vaccines cool and protected from sunlight. I still remember the guy who talked about his pistol-grip syringe being so hot that it nearly burned his hand while vaccinating calves on a hot day with temps in the 90s... it's a sure bet that the MLV vaccines administered that day were DOA, and immune response was near zero.

If daytime temps are above 85 and don't cool down below 70 at night, cattle can't 'cool down' sufficiently to overcome heat stress... there's a high likelihood of vaccine 'failure' - and the possibility of adverse effects resulting in death.

 

[Brute 23]

We don't have a choice but to wean in high temps some times. Definitely have to have shade to work in for the vacs and cattle.

I use foam coolers and basically pull the guns out to inject and then they go right back in if we aren't covered. Not sure how well it works but hope it's better than nothing.

 

[Dave]

No choice but to wean on that day. The cows were scheduled to leave for the kill plant. Cows left the calves are weaned.
The vaccines are all in a cooler. There is another cooler with tubes running down into the cooler. Those tubes are covered in ice on the inside. So it is out of the sun and cooler. The guns get stuck into those tubes between calves. It has been 5 days since we weaned and no sick calves to this point.

 

[Dave]

@Dave - 103! There is no way in hell that I'd have worked or weaned calves in that sort of heat. It's a wonder you didn't have some heat-related deaths, and the likelihood is that their immune response to that huge, varied, antigenic mass you plugged into them (Ultrabac-8, BoviShield Gold, Nasalgen, Pasteurella - all at one fell swoop) may be less than optimal, at best.
You may have 'vaccinated' those calves, but you may not have 'immunized' them... th next person up the chain may get an ugly surprise if they're expecting protection against BRD based on their 'vaccination history'.

That is essentially the same vaccination program that tens of thousands of calves here get at branding. The only difference is the Pasteurella given as a stand alone shot rather than having it in with the 8 way or the Nasalgen. I just happened to have it in that stand alone shot so that is what we used.

 

[TCRanch]

@TCRanch is absolutely right about geography. That's why it's best to talk with a pro as close to your area as possible.

I have a form at home our vet puts out that I will look at later just to show the difference in areas. I'm a multimen fan to help with the transition from milk to grass/ feed.

Actually, I should have taken it one step further and clarified not just local geography, but specific to an individual operation. Until last summer, we shared a fence with a neighbor that had a minimal vaccination protocol, essentially no fly control other than fly tags at the beginning of the season, and sale barn cows that had not been quarantined prior to dropping off in that pasture. Biosecurity! Is an autogenous pinkeye vaccine appropriate for most people? Not likely. But necessary in my situation and probably not in another neighbors operation a mile down the road. Same with 3 rounds of respiratory for calves.

 

[Lucky_P]

@Dave
I was less concerned about the multiple antigens than by the temperatures. I understand that sometimes you have to handle cattle at times when all is not ideal... and I've killed a couple with heatstroke over the years, so I'm less inclined to feel like I 'have to do it now', regardless - but I didn't have an appointment for all my cows to go to slaughter on a given day.
But... the scientific evidence is strong that response to vaccination is markedly impacted - in a negative way - by heat stress when you get past that 85/70 setpoint (daytime temps above 85, with nighttime temps not dropping below 70). You may have 'vaccinated' those calves, but you may not have 'immunized' them.

I'm not sure why y'all are doing Nasalgen-3 and Bovishield Gold at the same time.
I can certainly see Nasalgen-3 or Inforce-3 to provide fast local mucosal immunity and prime the immune system - with a subsequent Bovishield booster 3 weeks or so later to move systemic immunity to a higher level.

 

[Dave]

@Dave
I was less concerned about the multiple antigens than by the temperatures. I understand that sometimes you have to handle cattle at times when all is not ideal... and I've killed a couple with heatstroke over the years, so I'm less inclined to feel like I 'have to do it now', regardless - but I didn't have an appointment for all my cows to go to slaughter on a given day.
But... the scientific evidence is strong that response to vaccination is markedly impacted - in a negative way - by heat stress when you get past that 85/70 setpoint (daytime temps above 85, with nighttime temps not dropping below 70). You may have 'vaccinated' those calves, but you may not have 'immunized' them.

I'm not sure why y'all are doing Nasalgen-3 and Bovishield Gold at the same time.
I can certainly see Nasalgen-3 or Inforce-3 to provide fast local mucosal immunity and prime the immune system - with a subsequent Bovishield booster 3 weeks or so later to move systemic immunity to a higher level.

I can only think of one day this summer that the night time low stayed at 70. Plus or minus a few degrees from 60 is common even on hot days.
The Bovasheild and Nasalgen at the same time is normal here. There is 7 full time large animal vets in this county. I assume that people with hundreds, even thousands of cows have consulted a vet. Thinking about it one of my neighbors is a retired vet. She is regularly giving shots at brandings where this combination is given.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

The Nasalgen kicks immunity in quickly, BoviShield is slower but extremely efficient.
I use Inforce 3 for my newborns AND on anything (especially show cattle) that just seems a little off - runny nose, slight drop in appetite. It is a vaccine, but it also kicks in their own immune system and will fight off a bug on their own rather than treating with antibiotics.

 

[Dave]

We are now at day 11 since weaning. 117 calves and I have had to treat 0. I really think that the Multimin90 does help. And these calves have been devouring the loose minerals.

 

[Lucky_P]

The Nasalgen kicks immunity in quickly, BoviShield is slower but extremely efficient.
I use Inforce 3 for my newborns AND on anything (especially show cattle) that just seems a little off - runny nose, slight drop in appetite. It is a vaccine, but it also kicks in their own immune system and will fight off a bug on their own rather than treating with antibiotics.

Agree, Jeanne. Field trials have shown that the intranasals quickly jumpstart local mucosal immunity in the upper respiratory tract, and prime the immune system to respond to booster vaccinations... but in my mind... giving an intranasal and an injectible at the same time doesn't get you the 'boost' in systemic antibody production or expansion of immune memory cell populations you'd get if you gave the intranasal, then an injectible booster within a reasonable timeframe. But... I'm not an immunology researcher.

 

[MurraysMutts]

I certainly enjoy reading about this vaccination protocol stuff. I think I may learn a bit as yall talk.

Now this is really gonna trip yall out.
My born calves here at home and the lease place get NOTHING. The bulls get banded at birth.
Most but not all calves, cows brought in get the works at the vet before coming home. But these little ones I get and put on cows get very little as well. I'll band the bulls usually. Then I watch em as closely as I can. I have had a couple didn't do well. But those particular calves were free/not expected, but HOPED to be saved. And yall know I bring a bunch of "trader" type animals in and out.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

IMHO - Murry - you are lucky. Just about all of USA is SE deficient. I would NEVER have a calf born without giving it Multimin90 or BoSe. Not "as" important, I also give a shot of A&D, give Inforce3 and dip the naval. It is CHEAP insurance.

 

[TCRanch]

IMHO - Murry - you are lucky. Just about all of USA is SE deficient. I would NEVER have a calf born without giving it Multimin90 or BoSe. Not "as" important, I also give a shot of A&D, give Inforce3 and dip the naval. It is CHEAP insurance.

My vet has never recommended either BoSe or Multimin90 and around here, I don't know anybody that uses it. But I'll ask about it tomorrow (taking the pups in). I did find a map that identifies selenium levels in KS but honestly, don't know what is considered an acceptable level. My county appears to be in the .38 - .38 range. There was an article from K-State that talked about some of the counties having too high of a level (the ones in dark blue) with several cases of selenium toxicity/excess in beef herds in these areas.

 

[farmerjan]

As I have been told by an "old time vet" years ago, cattle need about .1 ppm of selenium and in the northeast where I was from, it is deficient... so Bo-Se or Mu-Se 9cattle or sheep) is a good way to get their levels up and prevent "white muscle disease" which is not actually a "disease" so much as a nutritional deficit.... causing lack of muscle use/control in calves and lambs.... most forages in areas that are deficient in that in the soil, will be deficient in the feed grown...
By the looks of the map, @TCRanch that is something you will NEVER have to worry about... Vit E and selenium work together in a synergistic way, so that is why it is given together...
So you either up the selenium in the mineral... and there are laws about that due to toxic levels being possibly fed... or you give them a Multimin or BoSe shot....