Using nurse cows?

[backhoeboogie]

Thanks backhoe. I work in the oilfield currently and I can pick up scrap pieces for free just for asking and that's what I was gonna use. I really appreciate the information you have been giving me. I know I ask alot of questions lol, but I figure how else are you going to learn anything? What kind of feed and mineral would you recommend for a nurse cow?

Feed depends on the temperature. In the hot summertime I use an all grain dairy ration. In the winter I go heavy on the protein. Sweet feed every other feeding works wonders on attitudes too and sometimes I just mix it in.

As for mineral, these gals get the same minerals as the rest of the herd. Free choice salt and mineral continually.

Keep asking. Nurse cows are the most money making venture in the commercial cow industry, in my opinion. When I retire I may run a dozen of them.

 

[Tim/South]

Thanks for the info. That's basically what I want to do with one. I only know of a couple dairies anywhere close to me to get calves from. I probably need to talk to them to see when they have steers available so I can plan around that for extra calves if I can't get any from the sale barn. Is it very hard to get heifer calves off of them?

Jersey bull calves are cheap at the dairy I use. $10 to $20 bucks. One time he just gave me some. They are harder to bottle raise than Holsteins. Holsteins have more vigor/fight.
He will not part with a heifer for love nor money.

Cost of beef calves vary. I bought a nice 2 week old black heifer last week for $1.10. Some times that same calf might go for $180 - $200. At the beginning of summer it seems a parent or grandparent wants one as a summer project for the kids.
Right now some cow/calf pairs are being bought by the pound. They do not want the baby and run them back through the sale. You can get an idea of the genes by looking at the momma and remembering the calf. It helps to know who the packer buyers are and who the farmers are. Most farmers will keep them as a pair.
If I pick up another baby this week I guess I will buy a dairy cull to momma them.

 

[bigrob]

Thanks backhoe. I work in the oilfield currently and I can pick up scrap pieces for free just for asking and that's what I was gonna use. I really appreciate the information you have been giving me. I know I ask alot of questions lol, but I figure how else are you going to learn anything? What kind of feed and mineral would you recommend for a nurse cow?

Feed depends on the temperature. In the hot summertime I use an all grain dairy ration. In the winter I go heavy on the protein. Sweet feed every other feeding works wonders on attitudes too and sometimes I just mix it in.

As for mineral, these gals get the same minerals as the rest of the herd. Free choice salt and mineral continually.

Keep asking. Nurse cows are the most money making venture in the commercial cow industry, in my opinion. When I retire I may run a dozen of them.

M

Don't worry, as long as you keep answering I'll keep asking lol. That's what I'm thinking on the money making side you've got 1 cow with 2-4 calves to take care of instead of 2-4 cows with one calf each. Even feeding her more it still won't be as much as 4 seperate cows.

What would you breed a jersey to for a freezer calf or maybe a replacement if you're lucky?

Would a horse stall that's about 10x15 work for her and the calves to eat in?
I have a barn set up with 4 stalls and feeders all built out of sucker rod and drill pipe. The guy that owned the place was a welder and did a great job building all of this and I was wantin to utilize it as much as possible.

 

[bigrob]

Thanks for the info. That's basically what I want to do with one. I only know of a couple dairies anywhere close to me to get calves from. I probably need to talk to them to see when they have steers available so I can plan around that for extra calves if I can't get any from the sale barn. Is it very hard to get heifer calves off of them?

Jersey bull calves are cheap at the dairy I use. $10 to $20 bucks. One time he just gave me some. They are harder to bottle raise than Holsteins. Holsteins have more vigor/fight.
He will not part with a heifer for love nor money.

Cost of beef calves vary. I bought a nice 2 week old black heifer last week for $1.10. Some times that same calf might go for $180 - $200. At the beginning of summer it seems a parent or grandparent wants one as a summer project for the kids.
Right now some cow/calf pairs are being bought by the pound. They do not want the baby and run them back through the sale. You can get an idea of the genes by looking at the momma and remembering the calf. It helps to know who the packer buyers are and who the farmers are. Most farmers will keep them as a pair.
If I pick up another baby this week I guess I will buy a dairy cull to momma them.

Thanks. In your opinion which do you get more for jersey steers or the Holstein steers?
Like I said I only know of two in operation anywhere close to my house, one is a mix of Holstein and jersey, the other is a straight Holstein operation as best I can tell.
The straight Holstein dairy is in Louisiana tho is there anything I would need to do special to bring home the steer calves since I would be crossing state lines?
I didn't think a dairy would give one up easy, but I did read in one of the threads that the guy bought all of his replacements. It's worth a shot to ask I suppose. I didn't think these days you could get the steers that cheap

 

[backhoeboogie]

M

Don't worry, as long as you keep answering I'll keep asking lol. That's what I'm thinking on the money making side you've got 1 cow with 2-4 calves to take care of instead of 2-4 cows with one calf each. Even feeding her more it still won't be as much as 4 seperate cows.

What would you breed a jersey to for a freezer calf or maybe a replacement if you're lucky?

Would a horse stall that's about 10x15 work for her and the calves to eat in?
I have a barn set up with 4 stalls and feeders all built out of sucker rod and drill pipe. The guy that owned the place was a welder and did a great job building all of this and I was wantin to utilize it as much as possible.

I've been running brangus bulls. That's what the cows are bred to and I have only eaten one. It was okay but not as good as most, in my opinion. Generally I just sell them at auction and take what they bring. It has always been decent - about the middle of the spread that day.

When I am grafting, the natural calf and graft calves are put in a pen all day. The cows is let in with the calves twice a day. 10 by 15 would work for most nurse cows for that brief period. It would help if you had a side gate to crowd the calves in to prior to letting the cow out.

You mentioned 2 to 4 calves. Why not 8? Wean the calves at 3 months per the almanac and put them on a weaning ration. Cycle another group onto that cow. Turn the weaned calves to a seperate pasture with other cows and let them gain on grass, after they are weaned. Or sell them then.

I mentioned running a dozen when I retire. I'd prefer to net 80 calves off of that dozen and retain some grafted dairy heifers for replacement nurse cows. In my opinion a dairy cow's OPTIMUM life span is much less than that of a beef cow. If you take care of the beef cow's teeth and health, she can calve up into her 20's. Never seen a dairy cow come close to that.

 

[piedmontese]

Thanks for the info. That's basically what I want to do with one. I only know of a couple dairies anywhere close to me to get calves from. I probably need to talk to them to see when they have steers available so I can plan around that for extra calves if I can't get any from the sale barn. Is it very hard to get heifer calves off of them?

Jersey bull calves are cheap at the dairy I use. $10 to $20 bucks. One time he just gave me some. They are harder to bottle raise than Holsteins. Holsteins have more vigor/fight.
He will not part with a heifer for love nor money.

Cost of beef calves vary. I bought a nice 2 week old black heifer last week for $1.10. Some times that same calf might go for $180 - $200. At the beginning of summer it seems a parent or grandparent wants one as a summer project for the kids.
Right now some cow/calf pairs are being bought by the pound. They do not want the baby and run them back through the sale. You can get an idea of the genes by looking at the momma and remembering the calf. It helps to know who the packer buyers are and who the farmers are. Most farmers will keep them as a pair.
If I pick up another baby this week I guess I will buy a dairy cull to momma them.

Thanks. In your opinion which do you get more for jersey steers or the Holstein steers?
Like I said I only know of two in operation anywhere close to my house, one is a mix of Holstein and jersey, the other is a straight Holstein operation as best I can tell.
The straight Holstein dairy is in Louisiana tho is there anything I would need to do special to bring home the steer calves since I would be crossing state lines?
I didn't think a dairy would give one up easy, but I did read in one of the threads that the guy bought all of his replacements. It's worth a shot to ask I suppose. I didn't think these days you could get the steers that cheap

around here holstein steers sale way better than a jersey and i would think its that way about anywhere.

 

[bigrob]

M

Don't worry, as long as you keep answering I'll keep asking lol. That's what I'm thinking on the money making side you've got 1 cow with 2-4 calves to take care of instead of 2-4 cows with one calf each. Even feeding her more it still won't be as much as 4 seperate cows.

What would you breed a jersey to for a freezer calf or maybe a replacement if you're lucky?

Would a horse stall that's about 10x15 work for her and the calves to eat in?
I have a barn set up with 4 stalls and feeders all built out of sucker rod and drill pipe. The guy that owned the place was a welder and did a great job building all of this and I was wantin to utilize it as much as possible.

I've been running brangus bulls. That's what the cows are bred to and I have only eaten one. It was okay but not as good as most, in my opinion. Generally I just sell them at auction and take what they bring. It has always been decent - about the middle of the spread that day.

When I am grafting, the natural calf and graft calves are put in a pen all day. The cows is let in with the calves twice a day. 10 by 15 would work for most nurse cows for that brief period. It would help if you had a side gate to crowd the calves in to prior to letting the cow out.

You mentioned 2 to 4 calves. Why not 8? Wean the calves at 3 months per the almanac and put them on a weaning ration. Cycle another group onto that cow. Turn the weaned calves to a seperate pasture with other cows and let them gain on grass, after they are weaned. Or sell them then.

I mentioned running a dozen when I retire. I'd prefer to net 80 calves off of that dozen and retain some grafted dairy heifers for replacement nurse cows. In my opinion a dairy cow's OPTIMUM life span is much less than that of a beef cow. If you take care of the beef cow's teeth and health, she can calve up into her 20's. Never seen a dairy cow come close to that.

I can cut the stall down in size with a panel if necessary, and use the panel as a crowding gate for the calves when I turn her out. There is also a round pen just outside the barn I can pen the calves in while she is out for the day. For some reason the gate is on the opposite side of the door of the barn and when we built our electric fence it cut the pen off from the barn.

I meant 2-4 at a time lol. I want to wean off a group every 3-4 months and graft new ones on and possibly do 8-9 calves per cow per year maybe get 10-12, that's only if the stars line up and I pray real hard tho. I'm a very strong believer in the almanac. When I was younger we always planted our garden according to it, it always seemed to work for daddy and me then I don't see why it would change now.

Would you think trying to feed the calves out a little before you sell them would be a good idea, or just sell them after weaning?

I think I read the productive life of a dairy cow is only 6 years, is that about right?

 

[backhoeboogie]

I've only owned a couple of dozen dairy cows myself and none has ever been full jersey. Dad ran jerseys and he'd seem to get 10 years out of them anyway. Texasbred, Dun and others would be more qualified to answer the dairy questions.

Once you get started and get some experience at it, your confidence will expand. I am not so sure about just a panel. Cows can go nuts.

I remember Dad putting a rope around the neck, through the pipe fence back out around the cow and back through the fence behind her just about the flank. I've never had that much problem with mine but remember Dad having some that were stubborn.

The crate I have works and works well. Safer for me and the calves.

You may not even need a panel. The old lady I know running nurse cows has to use care to ensure some calves don't go from cow to cow. Those old nurse cows she had will let anything nurse them.

 

[bigrob]

Why do you think that is Piedmontese? Is it because they are so much bigger, or do they feed out better?

 

[piedmontese]

Why do you think that is Piedmontese? Is it because they are so much bigger, or do they feed out better?

in my opinion they get bigger faster.alot of feedlots do well with holsteins.i think when people are saying that dairy cows productive life expectancy is 6 yrs they r talking about cows that are on an actual dairy and getting milked twice a day,they are being pushed quite a bit harder to produce max lbs of milk.a nurse cow normally has an easier life.

 

[bigrob]

I've only owned a couple of dozen dairy cows myself and none has ever been full jersey. Dad ran jerseys and he'd seem to get 10 years out of them anyway. Texasbred, Dun and others would be more qualified to answer the dairy questions.

Once you get started and get some experience at it, your confidence will expand. I am not so sure about just a panel. Cows can go nuts.

I remember Dad putting a rope around the neck, through the pipe fence back out around the cow and back through the fence behind her just about the flank. I've never had that much problem with mine but remember Dad having some that were stubborn.

The crate I have works and works well. Safer for me and the calves.

You may not even need a panel. The old lady I know running nurse cows has to use care to ensure some calves don't go from cow to cow. Those old nurse cows she had will let anything nurse them.

I'll try to improvise on my horse stalls and make a smaller box similar to your crate. I'd rather have it and not need than need it and not have it.

I'm familiar with the fence tying procedure lol. My boss has a bunch of rodeo stock and we've had to do that a few times.

I've also been meaning to ask about your cow. Would a jersey Holstein cross be a better option? I know the Holstein produces more milk, but the jersey has a higher butterfat and protein content, if I'm not mistaken. That's why I am leaning towards the jersey more, also they are a smaller so should be a little easier on the feed. Do you find this to be true?

My grandmother keeps telling me to get a guernsey. Do you k ow anything about them?

 

[bigrob]

Why do you think that is Piedmontese? Is it because they are so much bigger, or do they feed out better?

in my opinion they get bigger faster.alot of feedlots do well with holsteins.i think when people are saying that dairy cows productive life expectancy is 6 yrs they r talking about cows that are on an actual dairy and getting milked twice a day,they are being pushed quite a bit harder to produce max lbs of milk.a nurse cow normally has an easier life.

Ok that makes sense. I know that alot of feedlots run Holsteins, but I never see anything about the jersey steers. I never thought about that. I was under the impression dairy is dairy at the sale barn. Thanks

 

[backhoeboogie]

I'll try to improvise on my horse stalls and make a smaller box similar to your crate. I'd rather have it and not need than need it and not have it.

I'm familiar with the fence tying procedure lol. My boss has a bunch of rodeo stock and we've had to do that a few times.

I've also been meaning to ask about your cow. Would a jersey Holstein cross be a better option? I know the Holstein produces more milk, but the jersey has a higher butterfat and protein content, if I'm not mistaken. That's why I am leaning towards the jersey more, also they are a smaller so should be a little easier on the feed. Do you find this to be true?

My grandmother keeps telling me to get a guernsey. Do you k ow anything about them?

As far as nurse cows go, lots of folks prefer a jersey. Dad did and so does the widow lady who runs lots of nurse cows.

That one of mine is 1/2 jersey and 1/2 holstein. She was bought about 2 days old from a dairy sale and the price was right. If you buy one like that, be extremely careful not to buy a free martin. About 50% of the heifer calves at dairy sales seem to be free martins. They simply get dumped. If you don't know what a free martin is, find out before you buy. Or take someone with you who does know.

I know nothing of guernsey cows. Never owned one and have never been around one.

Improvising is good. There's no need in permanently building a whole lot of things only to find out you didn't build things to YOUR optimum needs.

It is a shame you don't live close by. You could borrow that crate long enough to get calves grafted well. I probably don't need it for a few more months.

 

[backhoeboogie]

By the way, I inherited some land in Harrison County. Where abouts in ET are you?

 

[Tim/South]

Holsteins will bring much more here when sold by the pound. About twice as much per pound.
A jersey will never top out at the weight a Holstein will. Jerseys have a very small frame.

A friend of mine just sold a pen of fats. They cut out his 4 Holstein steers. He got $1.17 for them. They weighed 1400 lbs average. That price is unheard of to me. Times are changing.

 

[bigrob]

I'll try to improvise on my horse stalls and make a smaller box similar to your crate. I'd rather have it and not need than need it and not have it.

I'm familiar with the fence tying procedure lol. My boss has a bunch of rodeo stock and we've had to do that a few times.

I've also been meaning to ask about your cow. Would a jersey Holstein cross be a better option? I know the Holstein produces more milk, but the jersey has a higher butterfat and protein content, if I'm not mistaken. That's why I am leaning towards the jersey more, also they are a smaller so should be a little easier on the feed. Do you find this to be true?

My grandmother keeps telling me to get a guernsey. Do you k ow anything about them?

As far as nurse cows go, lots of folks prefer a jersey. Dad did and so does the widow lady who runs lots of nurse cows.

That one of mine is 1/2 jersey and 1/2 holstein. She was bought about 2 days old from a dairy sale and the price was right. If you buy one like that, be extremely careful not to buy a free martin. About 50% of the heifer calves at dairy sales seem to be free martins. They simply get dumped. If you don't know what a free martin is, find out before you buy. Or take someone with you who does know.

I know nothing of guernsey cows. Never owned one and have never been around one.

Improvising is good. There's no need in permanently building a whole lot of things only to find out you didn't build things to YOUR optimum needs.

It is a shame you don't live close by. You could borrow that crate long enough to get calves grafted well. I probably don't need it for a few more months.

I greatly appreciate the offer backhoe thank you. I'm still in the process of trying to get everything set up and cleaned out fence repaired blah blah. Not to mention I'm still working 10-12 hour days.

Improvising is all I've ever known lol. It makes you feel alot better in the end, at least it does me anyway.

Yes, I know what a freemartin is. I'm still trying to get some contacts to try to get a cow and some calves from.

I live in Shelby county, not too far from Harrison county actually

 

[bigrob]

Holsteins will bring much more here when sold by the pound. About twice as much per pound.
A jersey will never top out at the weight a Holstein will. Jerseys have a very small frame.

A friend of mine just sold a pen of fats. They cut out his 4 Holstein steers. He got $1.17 for them. They weighed 1400 lbs average. That price is unheard of to me. Times are changing.

That's interesting, definitely a big difference on price then. As I said I was thinking that dairy was dairy. I'll definitely have to get a contact for mostly Holsteins then. Thanks for that info

 

[newcattleman]

I am also interested in this. Does bringing up the cows everyday to put with the calves work better than just leaving the calves out in pasture with the cow. After they are used to eachother. Does that work? How much work is having a nurse cow? I would think it would be a lot less work to just buy weaned calves and feed them. Is there a better profit margin by having a nurse cow and 6 calves (year) vs. buy/feeding 6 weaned calves (year)?
Im not against working but doing more work for the same $ is crazy.
I bought bottle calves last fall and gave milk replacer. Once I weaned them I bought some that were already weaned and that was a lot less work. I am about ready to sell them so I will see if one was better for me than the other. I am still trying to decide what I will be buying next. Thanks for any input and advice.

 

[TexasBred]

I think I read the productive life of a dairy cow is only 6 years, is that about right?

I would be really surprised if it was even that long. Just too much pressure put on them their whole life. Years ago we would weigh milk and pull out cattle that were still giving 40 lbs. of milk but only 2-3 months bred and use them for nurse cows. Had about 10 pens with 4 calves in each...pens were about 4x8 each having a gate. Calves were allowed to nurse their mothers for three days then put in the pens and bottle fed until nurse cows became available. The nurse cows were brought in, one put in each pen and the calves allowed to suck. Sometimes it would take a few days to get the cows to accept the calves but once they accepted them, we kept this routine for about 10 days...we would then put all the calves in a pen about 30x60 and twice daily turn the cows in there with them. Once the calves learned to follow the cows we would turn them into one of two pastures and then feed the cows just like the lactating cattle. Next month we'd repeat the procedure with another group. At weaning calves would be from 2 to 3 months of age. Each cow would raise two groups of calves and then we would dry her up and put her in the dry cow pasture. Did this for a couple of years, probably lost 4-5 calves during that time but 99% of them never scour or have any other problems. Only reason we quit it was wife wanted to bottle feed everything when we started going with the registered cattle.

As for buying calves....Dairy heifers are seldom for sale as they're too valuable but you can buy the bull calves pretty reasonable.....holsteins being a little bit more expensive. Most times when you see a holstein or jersey heifer at a beef cow sale it will be a freemartin or have some other problem. You really don't want to buy someone elses problem.

Boogie has given you some good pointers. There is some work involved early on but once the calves learn to follow the cows you're on the way to make some good money....even more if you'll buy beef calves to start with. They'll cost more but will bring considerably more when sold. Best wishes.

 

[DirtyShame®]

Bigrob: For many years my Mother had a nurse cow operation. She quit because of age and health..So let me tell you of her experiences. She preferred Holstein cows simply because the volume of milk. She did have a few Jerseys and really like them too but they would raise as many calves as the Holstein...Her best Holsteins would wean up to 12 calves a year....She would put 4 calves each time on the cow. She kept full creep feed available for the calves. She would separate the cows at night and each morning. The cows will come to the pens to for their calves. The cows each had stalls which they would go to. She would feed the cows while the calves were nursing, then separate the cow and calves and turn the cows into the pasture...When the calves reached about 300 lbs and since they had been on full feed, she would wean the calves and put 4 more calves of the cow..The weaned calves were put in a feed lot and kept on full self feed. Of course you will have to adjust the number of calves, depending on the cow....she would do this 3 times while the cow was lactating...12 calves in about 300 day cycle...She estimated that she would clear....6 calves or half the number the cow could raise....i.e., it took the other 6 calves to pay all expenses, that buying the nurse calves, the feed for cow and calves....in the late 70s, she would clear $1,000 per cow, a year..and that is when calves would sell for between $250-$300 when they weighed about 600 lbs...Believe me, its the very best business a person with small acreage can get into....